Am I using my Capnometer correctly?

tastyfood

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I have been learning how to use a capnometer for a while, but still have doubts about how to use it at home without attachments.

I own the Massimo Emma .

At first, I started using it by breathing through the top of the airway adapter, with my mouth. I would approach the measurement as a "best effort" type test, by exhaling as much as possible after doing bag breathing or holding my breath or doing Buteyko-style breathing.

I then realized that this is not very efficient because by exhaling a lot of air through the mouth, I lose a lot of CO2, which invalidates future measurements.

After that, I remembered that Peat mentioned to me via email that he had used a similar device that was so sensitive that it would pick up the CO2 from simply putting it under the nose.

I started putting the capnometer under my nose, simply blowing air through my nostril while doing regular breathing. I've been recording really crazy values by doing this. Easily, without much efforts, in the 50s of mmHG. During asthmatic episodes, I've been recording 72 mmHG.

My question: is it really viable to use the capnometer without any breathing attachments?


Another user had posted a picture like this:

img_20180904_1053300-jpg.10522


I am not using any attachment, but simply breathing into the tube. Am I doing this wrong? Is the attachment strictly necessary not to waste any air?

How am I recording such high values from simply breathing through my nose? Does it matter if one breaths through the top or the bottom of the airway adapter?

Tagging two users who have discussed capnometers in the past:

@Blossom
@yerrag

Thank you!
 
Last edited:

Blossom

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I have been learning how to use a capnometer for a while, but still have doubts about how to use it at home without attachments.

I own the Massimo Emma .

At first, I started using it by breathing through the top of the airway adapter, with my mouth. I would approach the measurement as a "best effort" type test, by exhaling as much as possible after doing bag breathing or holding my breath or doing Buteyko-style breathing.

I then realized that this is not very efficient because by exhaling a lot of air through the mouth, I lose a lot of CO2, which invalidates future measurements.

After that, I remembered that Peat mentioned to me via email that he had used a similar device that was so sensitive that it would pick up the CO2 from simply putting it under the nose.

I started putting the capnometer under my nose, simply blowing air through my nostril while doing regular breathing. I've been recording really crazy values by doing this. Easily, without much efforts, in the 50s of mmHG. During asthmatic episodes, I've been recording 72 mmHG.

My question is: is it really viable to use the capnometer without any breathing attachments?


Another user had posted a picture like this:

img_20180904_1053300-jpg.10522


I am not using any attachment, but simply breathing into the tube. Am I doing this wrong? Is the attachment strictly necessary not to waste any air?

How a I recording such high values from simply breathing through my nose? Does it matter if one breaths through the top or the bottom of the airway adapter?

Tagging two users who have discussed capnometers in the past:

@Blossom
@yerrag

Thank you!
It’s fine the way you are doing it. The attachment would just be helpful in a clinical setting where it’s being used for multiple people for cleanliness.
 

yerrag

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I have been learning how to use a capnometer for a while, but still have doubts about how to use it at home without attachments.

I own the Massimo Emma .

At first, I started using it by breathing through the top of the airway adapter, with my mouth. I would approach the measurement as a "best effort" type test, by exhaling as much as possible after doing bag breathing or holding my breath or doing Buteyko-style breathing.

I then realized that this is not very efficient because by exhaling a lot of air through the mouth, I lose a lot of CO2, which invalidates future measurements.

After that, I remembered that Peat mentioned to me via email that he had used a similar device that was so sensitive that it would pick up the CO2 from simply putting it under the nose.

I started putting the capnometer under my nose, simply blowing air through my nostril while doing regular breathing. I've been recording really crazy values by doing this. Easily, without much efforts, in the 50s of mmHG. During asthmatic episodes, I've been recording 72 mmHG.

My question is: is it really viable to use the capnometer without any breathing attachments?


Another user had posted a picture like this:

img_20180904_1053300-jpg.10522


I am not using any attachment, but simply breathing into the tube. Am I doing this wrong? Is the attachment strictly necessary not to waste any air?

How a I recording such high values from simply breathing through my nose? Does it matter if one breaths through the top or the bottom of the airway adapter?

Tagging two users who have discussed capnometers in the past:

@Blossom
@yerrag

Thank you!
That seems like a good unit since it is what hospitals use and is pricey as well. But other than toying with the idea of buying a cheaper China unit ($300), I haven't used one.

What does the manual say about how to use the unit? Or the help line? Since the unit can give you good measurements presumably, and measurements have to be taken using a consistent way of taking them, you really have to follow the recommended procedures. It might sound banal, but I don't see any other way to answer your question.

Let us know what your experience is with using it, after the learning curve. I hope you will be able to tell if in using it you can tell if your are metabolizing sugar very efficiently, or if not, if you are burning more fat.
 
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tastyfood

tastyfood

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That seems like a good unit since it is what hospitals use and is pricey as well.

Yes. I got it on Ebay for $850 or so. It sounded like a big investment at the time, but it's proven to be useful over time.

What does the manual say about how to use the unit? Or the help line? Since the unit can give you good measurements presumably, and measurements have to be taken using a consistent way of taking them, you really have to follow the recommended procedures. It might sound banal, but I don't see any other way to answer your question.

I've been mostly watching Youtube videos. The reason why the airway adapter has top and bottom entries is because this device is used in emergency situations. The top is used to blow oxygen into the support tube. The bottom is where the exhaled CO2 from the patient is measured. Since this device is not intended to use at home, there aren't any instructions about how to use it for self-diagnostics. All the instructions are shown in relation to capnography, paramedics, hospital settings, etc.

Let us know what your experience is with using it, after the learning curve. I hope you will be able to tell if in using it you can tell if your are metabolizing sugar very efficiently, or if not, if you are burning more fat.

While I have doubts, since this is a somewhat unusual use of this device, it's starting to become clear that the differences in measurements respond accurately to the different metabolic situations I'm dealing with. The clearest example is the device shooting up the measurement (beyond 70) when I'm in a state of respiratory acidosis. Another example I have is that while trying to blow through the adapter with my mouth when I had intense wheezing, the device wouldn't record anything. In general, I'm seeing a lot of measurements in the 40s of mmHG after caffeine, thyroid, and things like that. General feeling of wellness seems to correlate well with the mainstream range of 35 to 45 mmHG.

Haven't really gotten to the part of using this device to monitor how well I'm metabolizing sugar. Will keep digging.

It’s fine the way you are doing it. The attachment would just be helpful in a clinical setting where it’s being used for multiple people for cleanliness.

Thanks for the comment. I guess you are right. Also, since the device is meant to be used to monitor sick or trauma patients, an attachment is a must to deliver oxygen and track exhaled CO2. You can't ask a patient to blow through the nose on this apparatus. Even if you did, you'd still need a new adapter for hygiene purposes. Even the instructions from the device say that the airway adapter is for one person use. I am the only one using it and I still have to wash it with soapy water often.
 

yerrag

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I've been mostly watching Youtube videos. The reason why the airway adapter has top and bottom entries is because this device is used in emergency situations. The top is used to blow oxygen into the support tube. The bottom is where the exhaled CO2 from the patient is measured. Since this device is not intended to use at home, there aren't any instructions about how to use it for self-diagnostics. All the instructions are shown in relation to capnography, paramedics, hospital settings, etc.
I see now why you're asking here.

YouTube is great as a resource. All I can add here is as you use the unit and become familiar with the intricacies of the unit, you may find yourself wanting to do your own YouTube video to add to that resource, and maybe even correct some of the things said there.

And if you want to know more, you may even want to walk up to a paramedic or a respiratory therapist and get a few leads on who practices with the use of a capnometer/graph. And then get more answers from him/her. He might be too happy to know someone went out of his way to buy a Massimo. And be surprised to see you know a thing or two more than him, although that may only be nice for you if it's a two way street.

ave doubts, since this is a somewhat unusual use of this device, it's starting to become clear that the differences in measurements respond accurately to the different metabolic situations I'm dealing with. The clearest example is the device shooting up the measurement (beyond 70) when I'm in a state of respiratory acidosis. Another example I have is that while trying to blow through the adapter with my mouth when I had intense wheezing, the device wouldn't record anything. In general, I'm seeing a lot of measurements in the 40s of mmHG after caffeine, thyroid, and things like that. General feeling of wellness seems to correlate well with the mainstream range of 35 to 45 mmHG.

Haven't really gotten to the part of using this device to monitor how well I'm metabolizing sugar. Will keep digging.

Would be interesting also to know if the results can be correlation to breathing rate. Breathing rate gives an indication how acidic your serum pH is. I base my analysis of breath rate on the rate of 14/min as ideal, higher as acidic, lower as alkaline, using the android app Respi-Rate.

Also, I wonder if attaching a face mask would be helpful in getting a better sampling of CO2 with breathing coming solely from the Bose. I have this face mask I use to breathe carbogen with my discontinued carbogen unit from Steve of www.carbogenetics.com. If you can adapter the capnometer to where the hose attaches to it and just breathe normally, it would probably give you results that are representative of how you breathe.
 

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Blossom

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Thanks for the comment. I guess you are right. Also, since the device is meant to be used to monitor sick or trauma patients, an attachment is a must to deliver oxygen and track exhaled CO2. You can't ask a patient to blow through the nose on this apparatus. Even if you did, you'd still need a new adapter for hygiene purposes. Even the instructions from the device say that the airway adapter is for one person use. I am the only one using it and I still have to wash it with soapy water often.
Yes, I used to use one periodically at work on myself and others. The mask is for those who are spontaneously breathing but unable to follow directions and enables a tight seal over the face in order to get a reading. Since you know what you are doing and know to seal your lips on the adapter that would normally be used inline with the endotrachial tube it’s perfectly fine to do it that way.
 
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tastyfood

tastyfood

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Yes, I used to use one periodically at work on myself and others. The mask is for those who are spontaneously breathing but unable to follow directions and enables a tight seal over the face in order to get a reading. Since you know what you are doing and know to seal your lips on the adapter that would normally be used inline with the endotrachial tube it’s perfectly fine to do it that way.

Makes sense. Do you think the same can be said for putting the capnometer right under one nostril, and exhaling that way? From your experience using this device on yourself and others, do you think there is more CO2 exhaled from the nostrils than the mouth?

Thanks again!
 

Blossom

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Makes sense. Do you think the same can be said for putting the capnometer right under one nostril, and exhaling that way? From your experience using this device on yourself and others, do you think there is more CO2 exhaled from the nostrils than the mouth?

Thanks again!
You’re welcome. Since the same air exhaled is going to exit either via the nose or mouth I feel the difference is negligible. I personally think the closer to the source (the lungs in this situation) the better. If the co2 reading is any higher coming from the nose it would just be due to the remote possibility of some residual buildup from the sinuses which would if anything give a slightly false higher reading. If you are breathing well and free from any obstructions there should really be no difference. I would also suspect that it would be too hard to get a really good seal and avoid air escaping using only one nostril. That would require a lot more effort for no additional benefit as far as analyzing how much co2 the lungs are blowing off. So for ease of use and accuracy I’d personally just test with your mouth.
 

yerrag

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You’re welcome. Since the same air exhaled is going to exit either via the nose or mouth I feel the difference is negligible. I personally think the closer to the source (the lungs in this situation) the better. If the co2 reading is any higher coming from the nose it would just be due to the remote possibility of some residual buildup from the sinuses which would if anything give a slightly false higher reading. If you are breathing well and free from any obstructions there should really be no difference. I would also suspect that it would be too hard to get a really good seal and avoid air escaping using only one nostril. That would require a lot more effort for no additional benefit as far as analyzing how much co2 the lungs are blowing off. So for ease of use and accuracy I’d personally just test with your mouth.
Good point Blossom.

I guess it also makes it possible to breathe air in with the nose and to exhale using the mouth without the outgoing breath mixing with the incoming air, which a mask would not do.
 
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tastyfood

tastyfood

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You’re welcome. Since the same air exhaled is going to exit either via the nose or mouth I feel the difference is negligible. I personally think the closer to the source (the lungs in this situation) the better. If the co2 reading is any higher coming from the nose it would just be due to the remote possibility of some residual buildup from the sinuses which would if anything give a slightly false higher reading. If you are breathing well and free from any obstructions there should really be no difference. I would also suspect that it would be too hard to get a really good seal and avoid air escaping using only one nostril. That would require a lot more effort for no additional benefit as far as analyzing how much co2 the lungs are blowing off. So for ease of use and accuracy I’d personally just test with your mouth.


Thank you, @Blossom. Your comments were so useful, and gave me more confidence in how I'm using the device. The attempt to create a seal from one nostril is because that's more or less the size of the opening. If I try with both nostrils, the tip of my septum sits more or less in the middle of the adapter.
 
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tastyfood

tastyfood

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Good point Blossom.

I guess it also makes it possible to breathe air in with the nose and to exhale using the mouth without the outgoing breath mixing with the incoming air, which a mask would not do.

That's a great point. I hadn't considered that.
 

Blossom

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Thank you, @Blossom. Your comments were so useful, and gave me more confidence in how I'm using the device. The attempt to create a seal from one nostril is because that's more or less the size of the opening. If I try with both nostrils, the tip if my septum sits more or less in the middle of the adapter.
You’re very welcome.
 

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