Need Help - NDT Making Me Worse (Very Confused)

Peater Pan

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At first only a few ounces bc of how low my cortisol is. I should clarify for everyone that mine is very lose to zero. Now I just sip on it throughout the day sometimes mixed into other drink which is around 16-20 ounces (about 8am-4pm for 16 oz, the last four around 4-6pm. That's enough for me to function and do desk work etc but still not much physical activity.

When I had cinnamon at Thanksgiving i had a bad time with a cortisol drop but a quick drink of a few ounces got me back to normal. So I'd start slow bc you an always drink more if you do try it.

@Peater Pan adrenal cortex would probably work better than what I'm recommending if I had to make guess. The grapefruit would give you an indicator of how useful it would be, or could be tried in he meantime. So whichever decision you make I hope my input is still helpful.
Looks like licorice does the same as grapefruit (raises cortisol). I think I'll steer clear of grapefruit though as I think I already have estrogen issues. Are you sure it's not the sugar that's helping? Would OJ do the same, and give extra Mag and C? Does cinnamon drop cortisol or blood sugar, or both?
 

LuMonty

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Looks like licorice does the same as grapefruit (raises cortisol). I think I'll steer clear of grapefruit though as I think I already have estrogen issues. Are you sure it's not the sugar that's helping? Would OJ do the same, and give extra Mag and C? Does cinnamon drop cortisol or blood sugar, or both?
From what I've read the component in licorice tends to be taken out of products in the US so in that case you'd need to find out if it's taken out and replaced with anise .

My carb intake has always been high so it's definitely not the sugar. OJ has the same thing as grapefruit but drastically less IIRC. It wasn't enough for me. The studies I've read on cinnamon that show blood sugar effect also show lower cortisol and triglycerides or FFA which would explain the blood sugar lowering action. Some studies show few effects and that seems to be due to the different kinds of cinnamon and amounts used.
 

Peater Pan

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From what I've read the component in licorice tends to be taken out of products in the US so in that case you'd need to find out if it's taken out and replaced with anise .

My carb intake has always been high so it's definitely not the sugar. OJ has the same thing as grapefruit but drastically less IIRC. It wasn't enough for me. The studies I've read on cinnamon that show blood sugar effect also show lower cortisol and triglycerides or FFA which would explain the blood sugar lowering action. Some studies show few effects and that seems to be due to the different kinds of cinnamon and amounts used.
I read some guy died recently of heart something (?) after eating a bag of licorice everyday for like two weeks. I believe Ceylon cinnamon has the highest amount of whatever the active ingredients are. I've just ordered some NDT from LGS.
 

LuMonty

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I read some guy died recently of heart something (?) after eating a bag of licorice everyday for like two weeks. I believe Ceylon cinnamon has the highest amount of whatever the active ingredients are. I've just ordered some NDT from LGS.
Yeah the licorice stories were scary. Here's hoping for your success :cheers
 

marsaday

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110 T4 (dinner/bed dose) and 35-45 T3/day (~5 mcg doses spread) DOING ABSOLUTELY AWFUL two months later. AWFUL. I think I need Adrenal support.

You are using a huge amount of T3. 40mcg T3 is about equal to 160 T4. So you are using 270mcg T4 approx.

Have you ever used small doses of T3 only ? eg, have you used 110mcg T4 per day plus 5mcg T3 and stuck to that for at least 10 days ?

What bloods do you have for thyroid. Plus do you have any testosterone bloods ? Testosterone and estrogen are important for a male. What age are you ?
 
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Steve

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You are using a huge amount of T3. 40mcg T3 is about equal to 160 T4. So you are using 270mcg T4 approx.

Have you ever used small doses of T3 only ? eg, have you used 110mcg T4 per day plus 5mcg T3 and stuck to that for at least 10 days ?

What bloods do you have for thyroid. Plus do you have any testosterone bloods ? Testosterone and estrogen are important for a male. What age are you ?
Why don't people become hyper if using huge doses of T4/T3 replacement? I've tried various doses and nothing seems to happen.
I was going to keep upping it and upping it and upping it until there is an effect, but maybe that's a stupid idea.
I could go eat my entire bottle of T3 right now and I'm pretty sure nothing would happen, because I've tried large doses, and I tried taking 5 mcg every single hour one day. Nothing.
(My labs will change though, making me look hyper, but no noticeable physical changes.)
 

marsaday

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Why don't people become hyper if using huge doses of T4/T3 replacement? I've tried various doses and nothing seems to happen.
I was going to keep upping it and upping it and upping it until there is an effect, but maybe that's a stupid idea.
I could go eat my entire bottle of T3 right now and I'm pretty sure nothing would happen, because I've tried large doses, and I tried taking 5 mcg every single hour one day. Nothing.
(My labs will change though, making me look hyper, but no noticeable physical changes.)

yes this is common and not appreciated by docs. They just see the suppressed tsh and think your hyper. But check the HR and temp and they are normal.

the reason?

1) possible lack of adrenal activity so the t3 is not taken up and so sits outside in the blood and doesn’t do much.

2) more likely the user has a very good protection mechanism and the body self protects after a certain limit of t4 or t3 or both. This is likely to be rt3 creation.

rt3 will sit at the receptor and block t3 from entering.

so you end up becoming more and more hypo with more thyroid meds past your bodies set point.

this is why it is key to find your own bodies set point for max benefit.

recently I have tried using a bit more t4 and moved from 125 to 150 most days. Initially it was good but after a few weeks I noticed I wasn’t right. I had a full feeling in my chest and heart area. This is my own sign I am on to much t4, plus you feel a bit off. After 12 years on thyroid meds I have learnt what the signs are in me and so I can trial changes out and respond in the right way after a while. So less t4 is better for me when I get up to 150 t4. 125 t4 might be a little to low so I am now adding in 2 days per week when I do an extra 25mcg. This small weekly increase (50 t4) can often have big positive effects.

I will add I have done every single thyroid protocol going and realised my body works best on t4 and a little t3 in days gone by. But now I don’t need any t3 it seems. So it’s t4 only for me.

years ago I did t3 only and felt good at 55mcg per day but when I went past this dose I got sicker and sicker (more hypo basically).

so my body was basically super blocking any t3. It was a tough time and it stupidly got up to 100mcg t3.
 

Peater Pan

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You are using a huge amount of T3. 40mcg T3 is about equal to 160 T4. So you are using 270mcg T4 approx.

Have you ever used small doses of T3 only ? eg, have you used 110mcg T4 per day plus 5mcg T3 and stuck to that for at least 10 days ?

What bloods do you have for thyroid. Plus do you have any testosterone bloods ? Testosterone and estrogen are important for a male. What age are you ?
Not for someone with thyroid resistance or who may be converting that T4 to RT3. I don't have recent labs but I'm not hyper. My temps are still low and I feel hypo as hell. Peat says we make 4 mcg/hour. That's 96 mcg/24 hrs for someone with no/almost no thyroid tissue. Next, I'll either try T3-only or maybe your suggestion of 110/5. I'm probably low Test high Estro ATM. I'm 51, 75 inches, 190 lbs. I think my cortisol is super low. Considering adrenal cortex + vital adapt.
 
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Peater Pan

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yes this is common and not appreciated by docs. They just see the suppressed tsh and think your hyper. But check the HR and temp and they are normal.

the reason?

1) possible lack of adrenal activity so the t3 is not taken up and so sits outside in the blood and doesn’t do much.

2) more likely the user has a very good protection mechanism and the body self protects after a certain limit of t4 or t3 or both. This is likely to be rt3 creation.

rt3 will sit at the receptor and block t3 from entering.

so you end up becoming more and more hypo with more thyroid meds past your bodies set point.

this is why it is key to find your own bodies set point for max benefit.

recently I have tried using a bit more t4 and moved from 125 to 150 most days. Initially it was good but after a few weeks I noticed I wasn’t right. I had a full feeling in my chest and heart area. This is my own sign I am on to much t4, plus you feel a bit off. After 12 years on thyroid meds I have learnt what the signs are in me and so I can trial changes out and respond in the right way after a while. So less t4 is better for me when I get up to 150 t4. 125 t4 might be a little to low so I am now adding in 2 days per week when I do an extra 25mcg. This small weekly increase (50 t4) can often have big positive effects.

I will add I have done every single thyroid protocol going and realised my body works best on t4 and a little t3 in days gone by. But now I don’t need any t3 it seems. So it’s t4 only for me.

years ago I did t3 only and felt good at 55mcg per day but when I went past this dose I got sicker and sicker (more hypo basically).

so my body was basically super blocking any t3. It was a tough time and it stupidly got up to 100mcg t3.
This is very insightful. There's A LOT of knowledge in this post. You actually have normal temps on T4-only? I cannot imagine it. I actually can feel that's what's happening with me. T3 just sitting in the blood and not getting where it needs to be, and that's probably a combination of (maybe) too much meds=RT3 and not enough cortisol. When you were on 55 mcg T3, how did you take it? I'm really not sure what the next step is…
 

marsaday

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This is very insightful. There's A LOT of knowledge in this post. You actually have normal temps on T4-only? I cannot imagine it. I actually can feel that's what's happening with me. T3 just sitting in the blood and not getting where it needs to be, and that's probably a combination of (maybe) too much meds=RT3 and not enough cortisol. When you were on 55 mcg T3, how did you take it? I'm really not sure what the next step is…

itook it spaced over 3 doses if I remember correctly

yes normal temp on t4.

try get away from thinking t4 only is no good. The reality is it works super well for the majority. People on thyroid forums represent the minority. I reckon this minority is still a big no however. Prob 20% of users.. that’s still 10’s if thousands all over the world.

resd dr Blanchard book on functional thyroid. He says the mistake is that t3 needs to be used in tiny amounts. Ideally 0.1 /0.2/0.3/0.4 etc of 1mcg. But getting it in these quantities is not doable. He had slow release doses made up in his local pharmacy. He is no longer alive but his books are out there.

your body needs to be nurtured to use thyroid correctly. Big doses will shock it into defensive mode.

you want to use t4 and see how small doses of t3 work. T4 at bedtime is the best time and then experiment with 2.5mcg doses of t3 (that’s the smallest you can cut a tablet into). Try this amount in the morning. Then the next day at lunchtime and then the next day at 4pm.

do you get any different reactions? If so it will be connected to the cortisol level at that time of day. Find out when your body can best deal with t3. You will be surprised with the results you get at different times.

experimentation with times and doses of the t3 is key. Hold the t4 at the same dose and time and do not change this. Eventually you will understand what dose mix you need.
 
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Steve

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itook it spaced over 3 doses if I remember correctly

yes normal temp on t4.

try get away from thinking t4 only is no good. The reality is it works super well for the majority. People on thyroid forums represent the minority. I reckon this minority is still a big no however. Prob 20% of users.. that’s still 10’s if thousands all over the world.

resd dr Blanchard book on functional thyroid. He says the mistake is that t3 needs to be used in tiny amounts. Ideally 0.1 /0.2/0.3/0.4 etc of 1mcg. But getting it in these quantities is not doable. He had slow release doses made up in his local pharmacy. He is no longer alive but his books are out there.

your body needs to be nurtured to use thyroid correctly. Big doses will shock it into defensive mode.

you want to use t4 and see how small doses of t3 work. T4 at bedtime is the best time and then experiment with 2.5mcg doses of t3 (that’s the smallest you can cut a tablet into). Try this amount in the morning. Then the next day at lunchtime and then the next day at 4pm.

do you get any different reactions? If so it will be connected to the cortisol level at that time of day. Find out when your body can best deal with t3. You will be surprised with the results you get at different times.

experimentation with times and doses of the t3 is key. Hold the t4 at the same dose and time and do not change this. Eventually you will understand what dose mix you need.
What do you think about blood tests, TSH, Free T3, Free T4.
I took the combination of T4 & T3 that increased my Free T3 & Free T4 to the perfect levels, but I still didn't feel good.....all physical symptoms stayed slow & low.
My TSH basically goes to zero when I do this, but I guess I have Grave's antibodies making things weird.
 

Peater Pan

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itook it spaced over 3 doses if I remember correctly

yes normal temp on t4.

try get away from thinking t4 only is no good. The reality is it works super well for the majority. People on thyroid forums represent the minority. I reckon this minority is still a big no however. Prob 20% of users.. that’s still 10’s if thousands all over the world.

resd dr Blanchard book on functional thyroid. He says the mistake is that t3 needs to be used in tiny amounts. Ideally 0.1 /0.2/0.3/0.4 etc of 1mcg. But getting it in these quantities is not doable. He had slow release doses made up in his local pharmacy. He is no longer alive but his books are out there.

your body needs to be nurtured to use thyroid correctly. Big doses will shock it into defensive mode.

you want to use t4 and see how small doses of t3 work. T4 at bedtime is the best time and then experiment with 2.5mcg doses of t3 (that’s the smallest you can cut a tablet into). Try this amount in the morning. Then the next day at lunchtime and then the next day at 4pm.

do you get any different reactions? If so it will be connected to the cortisol level at that time of day. Find out when your body can best deal with t3. You will be surprised with the results you get at different times.

experimentation with times and doses of the t3 is key. Hold the t4 at the same dose and time and do not change this. Eventually you will understand what dose mix you need.
Estimate 20 million in US have hypothyroidism. It's probably twice that. 20% of 40 million in 8 million in US alone. That is not a minority.

I'm not sure I agree with Blanchard's position given what Peat says about the body's T3 production and utilization. I never did well on T4 alone (2012-2014) and stopped at 125 mcg because I felt hyper but I wasn't taking temps then. I switched to WP at 1.5 grains and immediately up to 2 grains within two weeks (STTM protocol), finally settling in at 3 grains 3x per day with meals and got my waking temps to 97.8. I did not track pulse at that time. That worked pretty well 2016-2018, then WP vanished.

I have effectively no thyroid so that must be taken into consideration. I have Hashi's and Vit D will crash to 0 without at least 5K of lipid tincture/day. Trying to get more sun exposire. High blood lipids all the while. Total cholesterol was 311 in March. Lowest I got was maybe 240. Younger and fit I was 200ish.

WP became unavailable for me late 2018/early 2019. Tried Westhroid, Naturethroid (nope!) then onto NP (Acella) for about a year, which was recalled for 'superpotency' (too much T3). Maybe that was the start of the issues? Body pushed too hard by too much T3??? Last 18 months were high stress and I caught a lung infection in 11/2019 from which I never recovered. Several rounds of antibiotics and steroids. Steroids and T3 maybe did me in/crashed cortisol??? Metabolism has been crashing for >1 year because of all this.

Some observations:
  • 1st week I got on the 100 mcg T4, after months on recalled (0-90% strength) WP, I felt pretty good. Lost four lbs and temps were rising. Was on less T3 that week. The effects did not last though. Maybe this is an indication that I need/respomd to T4 and am not in the T4+T3 or T3 only camp? Only controlled experiments can determine.
  • Post T4 dosage now doesn't affect temp. I 'feel' warmer but oral temps don't reflect. Temps usually drop 1-2 hours after dinner 50 mcg dose.
  • The days where I have higher waking temps are usually a day after higher T3 dosing. What does that say?
I'm going to get a .001 scale and can probably figure .5 mcg T3 doses (I have 5 & 25 mcg tablets). Thanks for the tip on T3 dose times/cortisol. I'm just not sure if I try your Blanchard recommendation now or go all T3? Maybe I'm in that 20% 'minority?' What about Adrenal Cortex + Vital Adapt? I take my T4 with dinner and at bedtime w/food. Any other advice is much appreciated as I am really struggling. I'm off all supplements ATM, except aspirin USP+baking soda. Thanks!

PS—What's your view on T4 brands vs. generic? What do you think about topical Tyronene, e.g., belly button, scrotum?
 
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Peater Pan

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I had a full feeling in my chest and heart area. This is my own sign I am on to much t4, plus you feel a bit off.
I've had these chest/heart full and general off feelings for a while now. Does Blanchard talk at all about the needs of thyroidectomy patients?
 

marsaday

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What do you think about blood tests, TSH, Free T3, Free T4.
I took the combination of T4 & T3 that increased my Free T3 & Free T4 to the perfect levels, but I still didn't feel good.....all physical symptoms stayed slow & low.
My TSH basically goes to zero when I do this, but I guess I have Grave's antibodies making things weird.


Bloods are very important but how you feel is more so. Having said that if you feel great you would want to see where bloods are still.

I think it is important the tsh gets to just tick over and not become suppressed. A suppressed tsh is a sign you are on to much thyroid meds (as we all know) but quite a few people can get suppressed on low doses. So what does that say?

well in this case the user has an issue with uptake. The hormone sits around not doing anything but it distorts the effect of tsh. Conversion lowers as well as overall output.

I remember I had this issue and it changed when I started to use ProgestE oil. 2 drops per day. My tsh moved away from suppression to around 0.5 and ft4 dropped. It was a good day when I saw those results.

what was happening finally was the through out of t4 was speeding up. The body was sucking it up and converting it nicely. This meant stores of t4 dropped and so the tsh rises to accommodate a new demand for t4/t3. I probably didn’t get more t4 production but I’m sure I got more t3.

testosterone is also key for a man and we need to look at this area when thyroid treatment on its own is not working.
 

marsaday

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Estimate 20 million in US have hypothyroidism. It's probably twice that. 20% of 40 million in 8 million in US alone. That is not a minority.

I'm not sure I agree with Blanchard's position given what Peat says about the body's T3 production and utilization. I never did well on T4 alone (2012-2014) and stopped at 125 mcg because I felt hyper but I wasn't taking temps then. I switched to WP at 1.5 grains and immediately up to 2 grains within two weeks (STTM protocol), finally settling in at 3 grains 3x per day with meals and got my waking temps to 97.8. I did not track pulse at that time. That worked pretty well 2016-2018, then WP vanished.

I have effectively no thyroid so that must be taken into consideration. I have Hashi's and Vit D will crash to 0 without at least 5K of lipid tincture/day. Trying to get more sun exposire. High blood lipids all the while. Total cholesterol was 311 in March. Lowest I got was maybe 240. Younger and fit I was 200ish.

WP became unavailable for me late 2018/early 2019. Tried Westhroid, Naturethroid (nope!) then onto NP (Acella) for about a year, which was recalled for 'superpotency' (too much T3). Maybe that was the start of the issues? Body pushed too hard by too much T3??? Last 18 months were high stress and I caught a lung infection in 11/2019 from which I never recovered. Several rounds of antibiotics and steroids. Steroids and T3 maybe did me in/crashed cortisol??? Metabolism has been crashing for >1 year because of all this.

Some observations:
  • 1st week I got on the 100 mcg T4, after months on recalled (0-90% strength) WP, I felt pretty good. Lost four lbs and temps were rising. Was on less T3 that week. The effects did not last though. Maybe this is an indication that I need/respomd to T4 and am not in the T4+T3 or T3 only camp? Only controlled experiments can determine.
  • Post T4 dosage now doesn't affect temp. I 'feel' warmer but oral temps don't reflect. Temps usually drop 1-2 hours after dinner 50 mcg dose.
  • The days where I have higher waking temps are usually a day after higher T3 dosing. What does that say?
I'm going to get a .001 scale and can probably figure .5 mcg T3 doses (I have 5 & 25 mcg tablets). Thanks for the tip on T3 dose times/cortisol. I'm just not sure if I try your Blanchard recommendation now or go all T3? Maybe I'm in that 20% 'minority?' What about Adrenal Cortex + Vital Adapt? I take my T4 with dinner and at bedtime w/food. Any other advice is much appreciated as I am really struggling. I'm off all supplements ATM, except aspirin USP+baking soda. Thanks!

PS—What's your view on T4 brands vs. generic? What do you think about topical Tyronene, e.g., belly button, scrotum?

hashi makes treatment much harder. I think diet is key to getting in top of things. Have you tried a low carb, high fat and protein type diet.

so 125 t4 made you hyper? This is a good sign is it not? You were able to push your metabolism which is positive. Didn’t you try a lower dose of t4 to see how that worked?

so many people try more and more and it isn’t the answer.

then you tried 9 grains per day? 3x3

and that was ok?

you say 100 t4 worked well for a bit. Another positive sign you must not ignore.

I would be looking to see how t4 works and mess around with lowing doses of t3 and times.

have you tried waking around 4/5am to give t3. It naturally boosts cortisol and is called the circadium t3 method. Developed by paul Robinson in the U.K. he uses t3 only and reacts very badly to any t4. He is an unusual case. He thinks cortisol is the issue and t4 sucks up all the cortisol to fast.

He only uses about 55mcg t3.

t4 brands affect some people badly. I’m ok with most of them.

if temps move down after food it indicates not enough cortisol is around. Maybe it gets used up to quickly.
 

Peater Pan

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hashi makes treatment much harder. I think diet is key to getting in top of things. Have you tried a low carb, high fat and protein type diet.

so 125 t4 made you hyper? This is a good sign is it not? You were able to push your metabolism which is positive. Didn’t you try a lower dose of t4 to see how that worked?

so many people try more and more and it isn’t the answer.

then you tried 9 grains per day? 3x3

and that was ok?

you say 100 t4 worked well for a bit. Another positive sign you must not ignore.

I would be looking to see how t4 works and mess around with lowing doses of t3 and times.

have you tried waking around 4/5am to give t3. It naturally boosts cortisol and is called the circadium t3 method. Developed by paul Robinson in the U.K. he uses t3 only and reacts very badly to any t4. He is an unusual case. He thinks cortisol is the issue and t4 sucks up all the cortisol to fast.

He only uses about 55mcg t3.

t4 brands affect some people badly. I’m ok with most of them.

if temps move down after food it indicates not enough cortisol is around. Maybe it gets used up to quickly.
Yay! A reply! Thank you. 125 'hyper' was years ago. No temps to back it up but sleep issues. It coud have been adrenaline die to low cortisol? Also, it was Tirosint which is like the crack of T4 (overpriced as well IMO).

Not 9 grains, 3 grains (sorry if I made that unclear). I was good on that for 2-3 years until WP disappeared. Typically .25 early early, .5 on waking, 1 w/lunch, 1 w.dinner and .25 at bed.

The '100 working well' I think was my body just sucking it up after being under-dosed on the recalled WP for like 6 months. I guess that an indicates my body uses it! And I was taking T3 (at least ~25/day ave. 5 mcg doses w/food). The recall said <90%. That;'s it. Which is technically 0-90 and says nothing about T4 vs T3. Ridiculous! From symptoms, it was way less than 90. For ease, average 1 grain as 40 mcg T3 and 10 T3. 120 T4 and 30 T3 for 3 grains. 50% strength would have meant 60 T4 and 15 T3, which equals 120 T4. It was way less. I was Myxedema…bad.

I've been taking 3-5 mcg sublingual T3 doses early, early, based off Robinson's ideas. I'm not sure it's helped. I think overall, maybe T3 pooling due to too much and to back it off, which is what Ive done last 2-3 days. Had two back to back sleepless night Sat/Sun maybe due to supplements+stress. Waking temps same since lowering (low 97s) but stuck at a high of 98.o still. I may have the doc lock in a brand (Levoxyl) to ensure no uncontrolled generic variations. I'm reading Robinson's books now. Does he think it's T4 that uses up cortisol? I figured it was T3. T3 need cortisol, right? Or is that not verified. What's Peat's view on that?

I've tried all sorts of diets, probably what crashed me originally (raw), and strict autoimmune for 6 weeks. Antibodies went up. I used to take Selenium religiously. I do think it lowered some (1 of 2? can't remember) antibodies after a while. I have no food allergies except peanuts. Lot's of environmental allergies: trees, grass, ragweed, mold and horrible histamine symptoms these days.

So, for now, steady on on T4, maybe go up to 112, and lowering T3, to on small does/day. Yesterday was waking, today mid day. Not much perceptible difference but the two night's insomnia was/is a factor.

Would you try Ardenal Cortex and or Vital Adapt if you were me? Maybe progesterone? Preg hasn't done much. What do you think about Peat's view that large doses of T4 are also unphysiological? Do you take T4 w/food? Thanks so much.
 
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TAG145

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I've been dropping the dose every 2-3 weeks. Funny you say be careful because today I had what I think was vertigo for the first time ever. Things spinning rapidly, hot, nauseous. Freaked me out......not sure if that's from lowering my thyroid or something else. Fun stuff! Need to go visit the forest tomorrow for some nature medicine.

I can’t believe I found this post!! I am in the exact same boat and have been there for awhile. I’ve had vertigo-ish issues over the years too and I’m wondering if it is related to thyroid meds. My TSH is 0.03 in September. The website Stop The Thyroid Madness talks about optimal ranges for cortisol, free T3 & 4, etc. so it seems like my naturopath used similar reasoning for increasing my dose from 120 to 180 mg of Armour NDT. I have been on Armour for 20 years and in that time my dr. had helped me manage it but I NEVER felt like my body was functioning normally. The meds didn’t seem to affect me. My entire life I have been athletic, tall, thin, energetic. Suddenly at 30 I kept gaining and gaining weight despite being a runner & eating well (what I thought—Non-processed foods, fruits veggies, etc). So it is the same story after all these years—they increase my dose yet I have low temps, pulse, constipated, fatigued, etc. but at the same time I will have heart palpitations and, what is can only describe as jittery or a form of anxiety. I’ve been having a problem driving the expressway at high speeds because I feel whacked out. I also have been in an incredibly stressful job for the last 6 year stop. I am reducing my Armour dose myself and now am at 60 mg and the jitters seem way better. I email Dr Peat and he told me to make sure I have at least 2 qts of milk per day and selenium, but also recommended Cynoplus vs Armour due to quality issues. I don’t know if Cynoplus is available in the US, but I reached out to my dr today to find out. I also wonder about taking thyroid in the morning when cortisol is also high, maybe better to take later in the morning than right away...going to experiment. I’m about to go off thyroid as I am thinking maybe it isn’t right for me. My current dr. Said I have Hashimoto’s based on a questionnaire not a scan. I’m going to request a scan if she really thinks I am. Im suspect of that diagnosis as my antibodies are normal. I am also slowly transitioning to some Peat principles but it is super involved and I am reading everything I possibly can.
 

Peater Pan

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@marsaday 4th day on 100 T4 (50 dinner, 50 bed) and low T3 (~3 mcg) at a different time each day (today late afternoon). Awoke to temperature 0.4 degrees lower (96.8) than average and lower pulse (58). Do not feel too well but maybe not worse than I have been.
 
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Peater Pan

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I can’t believe I found this post!! I am in the exact same boat and have been there for awhile. I’ve had vertigo-ish issues over the years too and I’m wondering if it is related to thyroid meds. My TSH is 0.03 in September. The website Stop The Thyroid Madness talks about optimal ranges for cortisol, free T3 & 4, etc. so it seems like my naturopath used similar reasoning for increasing my dose from 120 to 180 mg of Armour NDT. I have been on Armour for 20 years and in that time my dr. had helped me manage it but I NEVER felt like my body was functioning normally. The meds didn’t seem to affect me. My entire life I have been athletic, tall, thin, energetic. Suddenly at 30 I kept gaining and gaining weight despite being a runner & eating well (what I thought—Non-processed foods, fruits veggies, etc). So it is the same story after all these years—they increase my dose yet I have low temps, pulse, constipated, fatigued, etc. but at the same time I will have heart palpitations and, what is can only describe as jittery or a form of anxiety. I’ve been having a problem driving the expressway at high speeds because I feel whacked out. I also have been in an incredibly stressful job for the last 6 year stop. I am reducing my Armour dose myself and now am at 60 mg and the jitters seem way better. I email Dr Peat and he told me to make sure I have at least 2 qts of milk per day and selenium, but also recommended Cynoplus vs Armour due to quality issues. I don’t know if Cynoplus is available in the US, but I reached out to my dr today to find out. I also wonder about taking thyroid in the morning when cortisol is also high, maybe better to take later in the morning than right away...going to experiment. I’m about to go off thyroid as I am thinking maybe it isn’t right for me. My current dr. Said I have Hashimoto’s based on a questionnaire not a scan. I’m going to request a scan if she really thinks I am. Im suspect of that diagnosis as my antibodies are normal. I am also slowly transitioning to some Peat principles but it is super involved and I am reading everything I possibly can.
Well, vertigo is about the once symptom I haven't had! 80% of hypo patients have Hashi's. Only a TPOab and TGab result can confirm that. Armour has probably gone to ***t like all the other NDTs. I've ordered some bovine powder NDT from LGS. I've sworn off US made NDT. Grossman Cynoplus & Cynomel made in Mexico are not available in the US by Rx but you can still get them if you try. Do you take all your NDT in one dose? Anything over a 'grain' (60-65 mg) is maybe too much at once. I generally have taken NDT with food, unless small doses (1/4-1/3) dissolved in mouth. What are your D, B12 and Testosterone levels? Do you get sunlight or at least red light? I'm looking at Paul Robison's books and Dr. Blanchard's as well on @marsaday 's advice. I think my cortisol is low too.
 
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marsaday

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Reducing thyroid meds can be just as helpful as increasing. Very often it can confirm you really need them and this helps people who have been taking them but dont see any differences. It is only when they reduce or stop do they realise the hormone was working quite well.

However i feel some people are very often on thyroid meds, or to high a dose and actually would be better off on a lower dose or off altogether.

I remember back in 2008 when i first started my thyroid journey i came off them after 6 months because i thought i was better. It took about 3 months to show up, but after this time period i felt terrible. The hormone had actually been really helpful.

If you have high stress there can be many other issues affecting your health. My wife doesnt medically need thyroid meds, but she finds 50mcg per day to be massively beneficial to her life. You might find you need just a little bit to help keep you topped up. As you are using NTH, you might look to try just 1/2 grain.
 

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