No Thyroid Gland, Labs, Droping T4, Moving To T3 And Ndt

[zane93]

Hello fellow thyroid-ally(?) challenged folk and those who are smarter that me...

I have no thyroid gland. Would someone be kind enough to help me with my labs so I can move in the direction of totally dropping T4 synthroid and moving to NDT and Cytomel T3 only. I have T3 Cytomel 25 mcg prescription filled. I've been on T4 only for about 6 years so I’m sure I have adrenal issues so I'm on the path to correct that now. I know I am currently hypo due to my symptoms.

• Currently taking:
  • T4 Synthroid 75 mcg
  • NDT NatureThroid 2 grains that should equal T4 76 mcg and T3 18 mcg
  • Current total of T4 151 mcg and T3 18 mcg
• Labs are:
  • TSH 3.08 mIU/L
  • T4 Free 1.1 ng/dL
    
  • T3 Free 3.4 pg/mL
  • T3 Reverse 21 ng/dL

I’m guessing here but should I take NDT 3 grains and 5 mcg 3 times a day of T3 to start off with for the first 2 weeks?

Cheers!

 

[answersfound]

Why are you dropping Synthroid? There's nothing wrong with using it, as long as you are using Cytomel as well. ndt can be a gamble. If you think you have adrenal issues you should take pregnenolone.

I would take 160 mcg t4 and 40 mcg t3 daily if I were you.

 

[zane93]

Why are you dropping Synthroid? There's nothing wrong with using it, as long as you are using Cytomel as well. ndt can be a gamble. If you think you have adrenal issues you should take pregnenolone.

Thank you for your recommendations.

Synthroid has been found to have heath issues like causing lung cancer not to mention quality issues. If you have not heard about synthroid and cancer google is your friend. I’ve been their and done that don’t want to do it again.... The gamble in my opinion is continuing with synthroid.

 

[tara]

Welcome Zane.
I'm not expert on how/whether to make such a switch, or on how best to address complete replacement.
I wonder whether the association of synthroid with some health issues is mostly to do either with under-dosing or with the lack of adequate T3, both of which seem to be normal medical practice?
Peat's recommendations for T3 are usually to nibble a tiny bit every hour or more as needed, because the half-life is short. I would split it in to more doses through the day than 3. T4 has a long half-life - it can take up to 3 weeks for a change in dose to give stable blood levels. So don't make big changes in that too fast.
He also seems to favour getting TSH down below 1.
Measuring resting heart-rate and temps can allow you to monitor and adjust more quickly than occasional blood tests.
NDT products seem to vary in strength quite a bit.

 

[zane93]

Welcome Zane.
I'm not expert on how/whether to make such a switch, or on how best to address complete replacement.
I wonder whether the association of synthroid with some health issues is mostly to do either with under-dosing or with the lack of adequate T3, both of which seem to be normal medical practice?
Peat's recommendations for T3 are usually to nibble a tiny bit every hour or more as needed, because the half-life is short. I would split it in to more doses through the day than 3. T4 has a long half-life - it can take up to 3 weeks for a change in dose to give stable blood levels. So don't make big changes in that too fast.
He also seems to favour getting TSH down below 1.
Measuring resting heart-rate and temps can allow you to monitor and adjust more quickly than occasional blood tests.
NDT products seem to vary in strength quite a bit.

Thank you I will doses less more often on the T3.

 

[answersfound]

Synthroid has been found to have heath issues like causing lung cancer not to mention quality issues. If you have not heard about synthroid and cancer google is your friend. Ive been their can and done that don’t want to do it again.... The gamble in my opinion is continuing with synthroid.

Thank you for your recommendations.

Synthroid has been found to have heath issues like causing lung cancer not to mention quality issues. If you have not heard about synthroid and cancer google is your friend. I’ve been their and done that don’t want to do it again.... The gamble in my opinion is continuing with synthroid.

Lol Synthroid and cancer? where's you hear that, Janie "the quack" bowthorpe? Those cancer cases are from t4 only. Had they taken t3, they wouldn't get cancer. Synthroid is the most commonly prescribed drug in the US. It's a simple drug to manufacture. Defects are unheard of. Take Armour, see how that goes. Ray recommends synthetics.

 

[charlie]

Synthroid is the most commonly prescribed drug in the US. It's a simple drug to manufacture.

Haven't seen the US doing much of anything right lately. .02 If these drugs are so simple to make why is it so hard to find good ones?

 

[zane93]

Haven't seen the US doing much of anything right lately. .02 If these drugs are so simple to make why is it so hard to find good ones?

enough said..

 

[zane93]

Lol Synthroid and cancer? where's you hear that, Janie "the quack" bowthorpe? Those cancer cases are from t4 only. Had they taken t3, they wouldn't get cancer. Synthroid is the most commonly prescribed drug in the US. It's a simple drug to manufacture. Defects are unheard of. Take Armour, see how that goes. Ray recommends synthetics.

The studies that I've read on synthroid/Levothyroxine and health related risks are all on pub.med, rebj.com, and nih.gov. Synthroid/Levothyroxine promotes cancer by increases oxidative stress a process that impairs the body's ability to detoxify and repair damage. If I can get my T4 from a natural source along with T3 incorporated with it why not?

BTW thanks for introducing me to that so called "quack" Janie Bowthorpe. Usually when someone is being attacked it is because they are directly over the target. Everyone in life has something to contribute even a "quack". And even better of you to talk about someone that is not here to defend them self.

"Defects are unheard of" right...

But I guess you win you got a post totally off subject.

 

[Giraffe]

To get thyroid supplementation right is a tricky thing for many here. I think the best advice people can give you is to make slow changes and observe the effect. Requirements change according to season (daylight). You need to dose according to symptoms.

Related thread: cynomel dosage directions

There are a couple of things that help or hinder T4 to T3 conversion: glucose/fructose, adequate selenium, adequate protein and vitamins to help the liver detox estrogen ...

Ray Peat was asked about the (alleged) connection between lung cancer (osteoporosis) and synthroid. He replied that T3 inhibits growth of cancer cells, while T4 increases it. He mentioned a (faulty) study in which they looked at a population that was insuffiently treated with T4 only.

See Environmental Enrichment and the Brain - KMUD, 2013-08-16.

 

[zane93]

So I tried to introduce T3 and NDT to my daily routine and I felt AMAZING for two days then I felt like a truck hit me. I believe I fell like this due to adrenal issues showing up after introducing higher levels of T3..? I will do a saliva to confirm adrenals before I start treating so I know if cortex or pregnenolone would be best(RP?). I dropped the NDT and am doing T3 only until my RT3 has totally cleared I think this will take about 4-8 weeks.

Adding info to that I missed on my original post... I was on T4 only for about 6 yrs and switched to T4 with NDT about 2 yrs ago better but still needed some work.

I am currently on Cytomel T3 only around 18.75 to 20+- mcg. Will keep adjusting from here.

Any RP tips? I am totally new to RP so I'm waking up as fast as possible.

But overall I am doing better now on T3 only I just have to be more aware of my dosing needs by way of temp, heart rate, and feelings.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Giraffe]

Any RP tips?

I found this thread: Thyroid Hormone. Also check the Forum Wiki.

Hope this helps. :)

 

[tara]

Any RP tips?

You've read the articles on Peat's site?:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/hypothyroidism.shtml

 

[zane93]

Giraffe and Tara thank you both for the links. I'm reading and digesting quickly.

I wish I could find a Barnes compliment MD does any one know of a list?

 

[Daimyo]

So I tried to introduce T3 and NDT to my daily routine and I felt AMAZING for two days then I felt like a truck hit me. Thanks for the help!

It might be also because you had some sort of mineral/vitamin deficiency. With higher metabolism you used up more of those nutrients.

 

[answersfound]

Giraffe and Tara thank you both for the links. I'm reading and digesting quickly.

I wish I could find a Barnes compliment MD does any one know of a list?

I have a good Broda Barnes Doctor. Where are you located? Pm me if interested.

 

[zane93]

It might be also because you had some sort of mineral/vitamin deficiency. With higher metabolism you used up more of those nutrients.

I had extensive mineral, vitamin, and food allergies panels done about 6 months ago and started to correct them immediately so I hope that is not the case but not saying it cant be or that I would require more as you said. I do think that I could have some kind of an underlining issue with potassium or calcium absorption. At times during a mild workout I would get mild 10 min cramps out of no where and that never used be the case. I'm sure adrenals have a role to play to. I’m looking forward to doing my saliva test so I can get on with correcting that issues if present.

 

[answersfound]

I had extensive mineral, vitamin, and food allergies panels done about 6 months ago and started to correct them immediately so I hope that is not the case but not saying it cant be or that I would require more as you said. I do think that I could have some kind of an underlining issue with potassium or calcium absorption. At times during a mild workout I would get mild 10 min cramps out of no where and that never used be the case. I'm sure adrenals have a role to play to. I’m looking forward to doing my saliva test so I can get on with correcting that issues if present.

I suggest you do a little research before getting all this testing. Ray does not subscribe to the whole weak adrenals thing like the rest of the Internet does.

 

[zane93]

I suggest you do a little research before getting all this testing. Ray does not subscribe to the whole weak adrenals thing like the rest of the Internet does.

I just did some quick searches very interesting thanks for the tip.

 

[zane93]

OK, I SURRENDER to no T4 and T3 only roller coaster. I felt the best I ever have in 10 yrs for two days, felt bad, felt good, now feeling like total crap. My temps and pulse do not match how I should be feeling for example my temp 98.2 (pre T3 only at 97.4) and resting pulse is 70 but I feel extremely hypo what gives?

I would like some advice on how to transition back to my Synthroid / NDT combo. After things become stable again in a couple months I may try synthroid / cytomel. I was taking about 18-25+- mcg T3 only for seven days. Can I just move directly into my Synthroid / NDT because it has only been 7 days and I should have T4 in me and T3 has a short half life, or should I slowing introduce the Synthroid / NDT and taper off of T3?

Want to move back to here:
T4 Synthroid 75 mcg
NDT NatureThroid 2 grains that should equal T4 76 mcg and T3 18 mcg

From here:
18-25+- mcg T3 only