Thyroid Issues - Help Solve The Mystery !

[Steve]

So here's the story:
A couple years ago I became extremely "hyper"-thyroid. It was probably Grave's Disease. I say "probably" because I had/still have TSI antibodies, but they were below the lab range. I had every other antibody test you can think of, & all were negative. (I have to mention that this all started when I stopped taking 6.25mg Iodoral (1/2 tablet) that I had been taking for 2 1/2 years).

A year-and-a-half ago I switched to "hypo"-thyroid. I finally gave up on trying to heal naturally & started taking NDT 34 days ago (Westhroid Pure). I started with 32.5mg (1/2 grain), and raised every few days. Today is my 5th day taking 2G (2 grains). Absolutely nothing has happened !

My temperature & pulse are exactly the same. I've been tracking them all year.
Example for today upon waking:
Temp: 97.1
Pulse: 54

I've been to multiple doctors & they don't know what's going on. The best guess was that the TSI antibodies have become blocking instead of stimulating. I've had all kinds of blood tests & there is nothing out-of-the-ordinary (except the Thyroid Panel & TSI). I have had no health problems in the past.

My main issue is low energy, & my head will often feel wrong (like inflamed brain or brain not getting enough fuel..................kind of feels like when you have a bad head cold). I can still exericse most days, but then some days the fatigue will hit me really bad, & I'll feel like my body is just going to stop all together. On
those days I really feel it in my heart, like it is just completely worn out or lacking fuel. Also any amount of stress really gets the head thing going.

So any idea what's wrong or how to fix it?

My labs improved from my initial hypothyroid onset, but they seem to have stalled here.
Not that bad, so I thought a small amount of NDT would have provided relief.
TSH: 3.1 (0.34-5.60)
Free T3: 3.0 (2.5-3.9)
Free T4: 0.97 (0.6 – 1.2)
TSI: 89 (<=122)

 

[Stilgar]

What is your diet like? Lack of any response to thyroid is often protein deficiency.

 

[Steve]

What is your diet like? Lack of any response to thyroid is often protein deficiency.

I'm pretty sure I'm not deficient in anything. I eat a lot. I try to follow the Perfect Health Diet, but I'm not great at following it.
Typically I'll have something like eggs & toast for breakfast, eat out a lot for lunch like stir fry or curry. Meat & veggie & potato or something like that for dinner.
Today was a chicken thigh & gluten-free toast for breakfast. Rice pasta with tomato sauce, burger, & kale for lunch. Apple & string cheese for a snack. Some coffee. Some green tea.
I eat all day long usually.

 

[ilovethesea]

I think you're raising way too quickly.

Broda Barnes advised only increasing after a couple months:

Starting dose : The size of a proper starting dose of thyroid will vary with the age and size of the patient. Usually a child under 3 years will not need more than one-quarter grain daily. By the age of six, one-half grain may be used in the beginning. A teenager or adult may safely be started on one grain daily. For a particularly large man or woman, two grains may be used - but no more than that at the beginning.
Further dosage : The starting dosage should be maintained for about two months. After that, if necessary, the dosage may be increased.

 

[Steve]

The Westhroid site says to start at 32.5 & raise 16.25 every 2 weeks. Most require 65-130.
So I've raised faster than they recommend, but it seems like I should at least notice some kind of difference.

I would have thought my heart would be beating out of my chest on 2 grains, but this morning it's only 50, almost back to a record low.
My temperature was unusually high though at 97.6. It's usually stuck around 97.
Only thing different is that I took a grain at 3 am instead of 6 am.

 

[Steve]

Posting here must have woken up my metabolism.

My average temp (3 readings) for the day finally went up (97.6, 98.1, 98.3).
My average pulse would be fine also except for the morning pulse (50, 64, 76).

Anyone know why my waking pulse would be so low at 50?
Does that point to anything interesting?

(A pulse of 76 seems really fast now that I've gotten used to upper 50's & low 60's).

 

[ilovethesea]

Personally I would trust Broda Barnes more than a manufacturer's website...

Have you measured temps before and after meals? That's a good way to check whether they're up artificially due to stress hormones. Low pulse + high temps might indicate that...

 

[Steve]

Personally I would trust Broda Barnes more than a manufacturer's website...

Have you measured temps before and after meals? That's a good way to check whether they're up artificially due to stress hormones. Low pulse + high temps might indicate that...

I measure upon waking, after breakfast, and around 3 pm.
Temp & pulse usually rise slightly after breakfast.

I'm on 2 1/2 grains now (7 days) & have been taking the pills for 50 days now.
Still nothing noticeable happening. Temp & pulse still below normal. Been tracking for 9 months.
Waking temp between 96.6 & 97.4.
Waking pulse between 50 & 60.
How can a person take 2 1/2 grains & have nothing happen?

(The only thing that will make me feel normal for a while is a weight lifting workout.)

 

[ilovethesea]

"If your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene. Have you tried a supplement of pregnenolone or DHEA? Were any other hormones, such as prolactin, measured? If you are taking the aspirin regularly, you should make sure to get vitamin K, from kale, liver, or a supplement. Anemia, like cold feet, is a common sign of low thyroid function." - Ray Peat

50 days isn't a long time at all, it usually takes 2 months before the T4 starts having effects.

You could buy some T3 and change your ratio to have more T3. Its effects are instant.

Also might be worth getting an RT3 test, although I'm not sure excess T4 would start turning into RT3 that quickly.

 

[Steve]

"If your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene. Have you tried a supplement of pregnenolone or DHEA? Were any other hormones, such as prolactin, measured? If you are taking the aspirin regularly, you should make sure to get vitamin K, from kale, liver, or a supplement. Anemia, like cold feet, is a common sign of low thyroid function." - Ray Peat

50 days isn't a long time at all, it usually takes 2 months before the T4 starts having effects.

You could buy some T3 and change your ratio to have more T3. Its effects are instant.

Also might be worth getting an RT3 test, although I'm not sure excess T4 would start turning into RT3 that quickly.

I had an RT3 test: 11.2 (9-27 ng/dL).
My cholesterol is 248 (190 before all of this hypo stuff).
Deficiency of Vit A: Probably not since I eat a lot of food (some of it high in Vit A). I also started a daily carrot salad a couple weeks ago. I try to eat beef liver every couple weeks, but it's gross. Just choked some down though.
Interference from Carotene: Maybe, but I don't have any signs of carotene overload, & I don't eat a ton of carotene foods (except recently because of the carrot salad).
Interference from Iron: This one is interesting. My ferritin was 203 (30-400) a few months ago. I've read that is considered pretty high, so I'll have to investigate further.

I've never tried pregnenolone or DHEA. I don't really have enough knowledge yet to try either of those, so I need to do some more research.
Not sure what prolactin is, so I need to research that also.
I take 1 or 2 aspirin each week. I also take Vitamin D, Vitamin K2, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin C.

My doctor had me go up to 2 1/2 grains, & she thought I should have noticed something by now. I started 3 grains yesterday & still nothing. I think she'd be on board with the T3 idea as she's mentioned it before. I'll be getting labs soon, so I'm not going above 3 grains, so don't worry that I'm going to kill my self with a mega overdose.

Thanks for the ideas. Need to research iron now. That one sounds interesting since it was high & I eat a lot of beef.

 

[Ella]

I was not sure where to post this.
Steve Fowlkes presents a nice overview of the variables and influences involved in state of hypometabolism. I think this is a great video to help those individuals trying to make sense of what is ailing them and strategies to implement. Very Peaty.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the video. Just finished. Interesting stuff !

 

[Ukall]

I was not sure where to post this.
Steve Fowlkes presents a nice overview of the variables and influences involved in state of hypometabolism. I think this is a great video to help those individuals trying to make sense of what is ailing them and strategies to implement. Very Peaty.

[A little bit of non-topic]
At 44:10 he talks about how he fixed his memory problem.
It seems Steve Fowlkes had coagulopathy and he said that his blood was too thick. But isn't coagulapathy a problem of the blood not being able to clot, so I guess, being too thin?
Nevertheless, he says he solved his problem by taking Nattokinase.
Nattokinase seems to be a good source of Vitamin K2, and again, I'm confused, because doesn't Vit K thick your blood?

As I understand it is that if a person has a thick blood, he shouldn't be taking Vitamin K...1? But, perhaps, Vitamin K2 doesn't really affect on the thickness of the blood and instead it helps more on the blood flow?

I also want to ask if anybody knows if taking Vitamin K2 would be similar of taking Nattokinase?

 

[Mito]

[A little bit of non-topic]
Nattokinase seems to be a good source of Vitamin K2, and again, I'm confused, because doesn't Vit K thick your blood?

As I understand it is that if a person has a thick blood, he shouldn't be taking Vitamin K...1? But, perhaps, Vitamin K2 doesn't really affect on the thickness of the blood and instead it helps more on the blood flow?

I also want to ask if anybody knows if taking Vitamin K2 would be similar of taking Nattokinase?

"..vitamin K1 is better at supporting blood clotting than it is at providing other health benefits."

"....MK-7 is even better than K1 at supporting blood clotting."

"The foods that are richest in K2 are natto and goose liver, both of which may be difficult-to-acquire tastes. Natto is a fermented soy food popular in eastern Japan."

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource/

 

[Ukall]

"..vitamin K1 is better at supporting blood clotting than it is at providing other health benefits."

"....MK-7 is even better than K1 at supporting blood clotting."

"The foods that are richest in K2 are natto and goose liver, both of which may be difficult-to-acquire tastes. Natto is a fermented soy food popular in eastern Japan."

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource/

So why does Steve Fowlkes start taking nattokinase to reduce his blood thickness? He says that his blood was hyper coagulated (very thick), that's why he couldn't remember anything after reading a paper.
So, after taking nattokinase, his blood thickness should have worsen since it makes the blood coagulate even more right? But no, he says it helped, which I guess the blood has became thinner.
I think I may be doing some confusion between blood thickness vs blood clotting since I see both as being the same thing.
It may not work like this...? I don't know. I don't really know how Vitamin K2 operates in the body regarding blood clotting. It seems it doesn't thick the blood. Actually, it seems to help with the blood flow.

 

[Arrade]

So why does Steve Fowlkes start taking nattokinase to reduce his blood thickness? He says that his blood was hyper coagulated (very thick), that's why he couldn't remember anything after reading a paper.
So, after taking nattokinase, his blood thickness should have worsen since it makes the blood coagulate even more right? But no, he says it helped, which I guess the blood has became thinner.
I think I may be doing some confusion between blood thickness vs blood clotting since I see both as being the same thing.
It may not work like this...? I don't know. I don't really know how Vitamin K2 operates in the body regarding blood clotting. It seems it doesn't thick the blood. Actually, it seems to help with the blood flow.

Nattokinase thins the blood

 

[mayweatherking]

I'm pretty sure I'm not deficient in anything. I eat a lot. I try to follow the Perfect Health Diet, but I'm not great at following it.
Typically I'll have something like eggs & toast for breakfast, eat out a lot for lunch like stir fry or curry. Meat & veggie & potato or something like that for dinner.
Today was a chicken thigh & gluten-free toast for breakfast. Rice pasta with tomato sauce, burger, & kale for lunch. Apple & string cheese for a snack. Some coffee. Some green tea.
I eat all day long usually.

so u eat no sugar? not talking starch try fruit juice playa... that pulse will go up real quick

eggs and toast for breakfast, how would that get your pulse up? eggs cause a massive stress response first thing in the morning when your cortisol is all ready high, then you have toast which is not going to decrease the stress response, plus it's gluten? maybe check out what the ray peat diet consists of to get an idea... rice pasta, burger, and kale... WTF, the only pro thyroid thing u eat is an apple, which isn't going to do a lot

got to love this forum.. people start talking about how to increase thyroid dose when you don't even eat any sugar... lollllll, wow, good night im out of this