Need help interpreting my latest thyroid blood test

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ilovethesea

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j. said:
You can change the ratio simply by having it with food, I think, as the food would block a bit of the absorption of T4.

Interesting... I thought this was to slow down the T3, not the T4. Is this the quote you're referring to or did he talk about it more somewhere else?

Half a grain of Armour, or about 30 mcg of T4 and 7.5 mcg of T3, is traditionally a common starting dose; it should be taken with a meal, so that it absorbs slowly.
 
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j.

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ilovethesea said:
j. said:
You can change the ratio simply by having it with food, I think, as the food would block a bit of the absorption of T4.

Interesting... I thought this was to slow down the T3, not the T4. Is this the quote you're referring to or did he talk about it more somewhere else?

Slowing down and blocking absorption are different things.

I think eating thyroid with food slows down T3 absorption and blocks some T4 from being absorbed. I just base it on the recommendation (of other people, not Peat) to consume it on an empty stomach to not block the absorption of T4, which they say could limit the absorption to just 50%. Don't remember the link.
 
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ilovethesea

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Mittir said:
All of RP's dietary recommendations are aimed at lowering stress hormones, which are
the cause of high reverse T3. You really can not rely solely on dessicated thyroid or T4+T3
without taking care of nutritional needs. Thyroid also increases requirements of
nutrients.

Yes, I have been following the dietary recommendations since the beginning of this year.

Mittir said:
Do you follow your nutrient intake? Are you supplementing
vitamin E? Enough calcium to lower PTH, a major stress hormone.

Here's a rough outline of my daily diet (I don't know how to insert a thingie from Cronometer):

Coffee - 1-2 cups
Milk - 1/2 cup (due to allergies)
White sugar or honey - probably 1/2 cup since I put it in coffee and my gelatin squares
Gelatin - 1/4 cup per day or a cup or more of bone broth
Cheese (parmigiano reggiano - somehow I can handle this) - 5-6 big slabs
Fruit - 3-4 cups... could be anything from melon slices, oranges, grapes, berries, or cooked apples or pears
Eggs - 2
Fruit juice - 1-2 glasses (although most give me allergies)
Potato - 1-3 per day
Beef, shrimp, clams, white fish, occasionally chicken - 1-2 servings per day
Ice cream - 1 cup
Coconut oil - 1-3 tbsp per day
Carrot - 1 per day
Chicken liver - once every couple of weeks (I know I should have more often but hard to get here... and I can't stomach the beef kind)

When I track it in Cronometer I am around 1800-2200 calories, give or take.

I also get my vitamin E from Progest-E which I usually take a couple times a day, enough to rub all over my lips and gums.

Mittir said:
Body deactivates the excess T3 by releasing an enzyme, which can stay active
for a longer time than needed and lower more T3 around. So, it seems quite
illogical to use high dose of T3 to clear out reverse T3.

Never heard of this - what is the enzyme called?

An if the diet is good, how else do you suggest clearing the rT3 if not with a higher ratio of T3 to T4? I know I can lower my NDT dose, but I definitely got way more hypo symptoms when I took less of it. I really don't want to go back to those days...

Maybe ttramone will jump in here, unless I did the math wrong I think she takes almost a 1:1 ratio herself.

Mittir said:
100 mcg daily is 100 percent reliance on T3, this can cause the problem RP
had with his heart stopping every few seconds when he was using large dose of T3.
There will be no more reverse T3 if one is only using T3. Reverse T3 comes from T4.
This kind of dosing would be justify for someone who is completely incapable of converting
T4 to T3 .Our body quickly expels T3 and reverse T3. T4 is the one that accumulates in tissues.

Oh was just mentioning this as an example... I don't want to go on 100% T3. However, I'm wondering about changing my ratios to deal with this problem.

Mittir said:
One odd thing about your result is that both free T4 and free T3 are above range.
I am assuming free T4, freeT3 reflects total T3 and T4. In healthy people with good thyroid function T3 tend to be above average and T4 tend to be below average, showing that
body has a high rate of T4 to T3 conversion. In your case High T4 reflects you are getting
too much T4. My guess is that you are ingesting/producing excess T4 and this is increasing
your T3 and reverse T3 production, thus canceling out lot of the T3 function.

Yes, this makes sense to me too. But I also probably have a T4 to T3 conversion problem - most women seem to.

I found this on Lita Lee's site:
Synthroid is cardiotoxic, shrinks the thyroid gland, suppresses cellular respiration, suppresses the pituitary and rarely improves symptoms, except in very healthy people who can convert the T4 to T3 (Cytomel or Triiodothyronine). Many people get worse, especially women, because low thyroid women are estrogen dominant and estrogen inhibits the conversion of T4 to T3. A healthy man has less difficulty converting T4 to T3 and can benefit from Synthroid.


Mittir said:
If results show your reverse T3 is high, you can lower reverse T3 by following RP's
dietary guidelines to lower this and then you can feel less hypo with lot less T4 and T3.
In that case you might have to lower your dose.

I've already been almost 12 months eating this way and am quite skeptical about relying on that alone to fix all the hypo symptoms I got when I took 3.5 or less grains. It was only a few months ago I was on that lower dose and I had much worse PMS and skin issues, plus even lower body temps and pulse.

Do you think it would be worth asking RP for a consult when I get my rT3 test done?
 

Mittir

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In RP world, stored PUFA is a major cause of hypothyroidism and many other health issues and
it takes about 4 years to completely replace those PUFA with saturated fats if you strictly avoid PUFA.Here are two RP quotes on PUFA storage,

Taking a thyroid supplement is reasonable until the ratio of
saturated fats to PUFA is about 2 to 1.

When the polyunsaturated fats in the diet are reduced, the amount of them stored in the tissues decreases for about four years, making it progressively easier to keep the metabolic rate up, and stress hormones down
.

PUFA blocks thyroid functions in every level of secretion, transport, access to cell etc.
Even if you get all your thyroid hormone in supplement, stored PUFA will keep
interfering with hormone's action.
I think it is a good idea to get RP's input on any health issues. There is so much
misinformation, it seems like he is the only person knows the correct info.
 

Mittir

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You did not mention if you are getting 80 grams of protein or not.
It is very important for healthy liver. I think beef/chicken/ lamb
liver plays a big role in supplying essential vitamins for our healthy liver.
Any kind of gut irritation /Digestive issue
increases serotonin and serotonin increases cortisol and other stress hormones.
Cortisol will lower liver's ability to detoxify estrogen and conversion of T4 to T3.
Estrogen will increase serotonin and PUFA breakdown to inflammatory prostaglandins.
This is a whole stress cycle ignited by simple gut irritation.
I would not eat any food that irritates gut.
In the beginning i was not able to drink even 1/4th cup of milk.
It took me about 3 months to get adjusted to it. I can easily
drink up to 2 quarts of milk now. I never thought it could happen.
Low thyroid people usually have problem with digesting lactose and
other sugars. OJ is one thing i had to give up after many tries.
Anything pectin rich is very problematic for me. Potato is a source of
pectin too. You have to experiment to find out which foods are easy for you.
Pectin feeds bad bacteria, RP has mentioned that people with bad
bacteria should avoid pectin and starch.
I do not know the name of the enzyme that deactivates T3 .
Someone from this forum asked RP about the side effects of taking large dose of T3
and he send this response how Liver enzyme deactivates T3. The email
is possibly in email advice section or somewhere in the forum.
But he mentioned the same thing in Josh Rubin's Final Q and A interview
around the end of first hour.
 
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ilovethesea

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Mittir said:
In RP world, stored PUFA is a major cause of hypothyroidism and many other health issues and
it takes about 4 years to completely replace those PUFA with saturated fats if you strictly avoid PUFA.Here are two RP quotes on PUFA storage,

Taking a thyroid supplement is reasonable until the ratio of
saturated fats to PUFA is about 2 to 1.

When the polyunsaturated fats in the diet are reduced, the amount of them stored in the tissues decreases for about four years, making it progressively easier to keep the metabolic rate up, and stress hormones down
.

PUFA blocks thyroid functions in every level of secretion, transport, access to cell etc.
Even if you get all your thyroid hormone in supplement, stored PUFA will keep
interfering with hormone's action.
I think it is a good idea to get RP's input on any health issues. There is so much
misinformation, it seems like he is the only person knows the correct info.

Yes, I'm only one year into the 4 year PUFA detox so I expect my thyroid dosage to remain high for a while. Although, I also only have half of my thyroid gland left so I will always need to be on medication.

Once I get the RT3 test done I will probably email RP as I don't understand whether you fix it by temporarily high doses of T3, or if you just lower the ratio permanently to say 3:1 or 2:1. I don't think he has talked about that as far as I know.
 
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ilovethesea

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Mittir said:
You did not mention if you are getting 80 grams of protein or not.
It is very important for healthy liver. I think beef/chicken/ lamb
liver plays a big role in supplying essential vitamins for our healthy liver.

Some days I get 80 grams, others it's more like 70. I'm making more of an effort on the liver - I have my veal liver in the fridge right now (gag).

Mittir said:
Any kind of gut irritation /Digestive issue
increases serotonin and serotonin increases cortisol and other stress hormones.
Cortisol will lower liver's ability to detoxify estrogen and conversion of T4 to T3.
Estrogen will increase serotonin and PUFA breakdown to inflammatory prostaglandins.
This is a whole stress cycle ignited by simple gut irritation.
I would not eat any food that irritates gut.
In the beginning i was not able to drink even 1/4th cup of milk.
It took me about 3 months to get adjusted to it. I can easily
drink up to 2 quarts of milk now. I never thought it could happen.
Low thyroid people usually have problem with digesting lactose and
other sugars. OJ is one thing i had to give up after many tries.
Anything pectin rich is very problematic for me. Potato is a source of
pectin too. You have to experiment to find out which foods are easy for you.
Pectin feeds bad bacteria, RP has mentioned that people with bad
bacteria should avoid pectin and starch.

This is really helpful, thanks. By gut irritation do you mean you had gastro symptoms or would allergies also be a symptom of that? I don't have any stomach/bowel issues, but many foods give me the sniffles within half an hour. I try to avoid them as much as I can - eg OJ. I can't have it unless it's homemade.

I tolerate parmigianno reggiano cheese much better than milk, maybe because you can't buy milk here in Canada without vitamins added. I don't know if it contributes to the morning allergies or not (I don't seem to get immediate reactions at least). I really feel if I didn't eat it, I would totally fail on the daily protein and calcium requirements.

I didn't realize pectin was in potatoes... I eat a lot of them and don't seem to be allergic. I have real challenges just being able to find enough quality fruits here so I don't know what I would do without potatoes. I also eat a lot of frozen melons/berries and cooked apples. Not being able to have commercial juices is really inconvenient and makes things more expensive, so I've just been doing the best I can.

Mittir said:
I do not know the name of the enzyme that deactivates T3 .
Someone from this forum asked RP about the side effects of taking large dose of T3
and he send this response how Liver enzyme deactivates T3. The email
is possibly in email advice section or somewhere in the forum.
But he mentioned the same thing in Josh Rubin's Final Q and A interview
around the end of first hour.

Thanks, I will look for this! Hopefully then the answer is just to change ratios, as I'm quite scared of high doses of T3 given what happens to me on small ones.
 

Mittir

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Old cheese and old fish are high in histamine. Old cheese are free of lactose and that is why
it is easier to digest for people who are not used to drinking milk. Greek yogurt, cottage cheese and home made farmer's cheese are low in lactose too, but
these are also low in calcium unless manufacturer added extra calcium.
Histamine is an excitatory substance and it does irritate stomach.
Excess endotoxin causes anxiety and restlessness. Any food that feeds bad bacteria
will cause some level of discomfort even without causing obvious digestion problem.
If melon is not fully ripe it can have lots of starch. Unripe apple is rich in starch and also in pectin. Pectin's problem depends largely on bacterial composition of individual.
If you have good composition you may not have any major problem with pectin.
Best guide is to follow reaction to foods. Good food will make you feel better and
sleep is a good indicator too. Steady blood sugar helps with lowering allergic response.
RP recommends 33 to 50 percent of calories from sugar.
Progesterone also increases release of thyroid hormone.
This can contribute to your high thyroid hormone.
 
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ilovethesea

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Mittir said:
Old cheese and old fish are high in histamine. Old cheese are free of lactose and that is why
it is easier to digest for people who are not used to drinking milk.

Yes I know, but I get less a reaction to the histamine compared to the added vitamins in milk here (or at least I suspect that's the problem). I am still trying to slowly increase my milk tolerance, but until then I need another protein/calcium source. From what I've read eggshell calcium is quite allergenic so not sure I want to go there.

Mittir said:
Greek yogurt, cottage cheese and home made farmer's cheese are low in lactose too, but
these are also low in calcium unless manufacturer added extra calcium.

I can't find cottage cheese without crap in it so I don't eat it. Didn't realize that about the low calcium... I don't have strained yogurt very often and I don't even really like it, so I'll just dump that from my diet. I did find some mascarpone which I seemed to do ok on but it has added citric acid and not sure that's ideal.

Mittir said:
Histamine is an excitatory substance and it does irritate stomach.
Excess endotoxin causes anxiety and restlessness. Any food that feeds bad bacteria
will cause some level of discomfort even without causing obvious digestion problem.

Yes, ok, I do eat the daily carrot (sometimes twice), it's just a huge challenge to find safe foods as I need to eat enough calories as well.

Mittir said:
If melon is not fully ripe it can have lots of starch. Unripe apple is rich in starch and also in pectin. Pectin's problem depends largely on bacterial composition of individual.

The melons I eat are usually frozen and I assume those ones are processed that way because they're too ripe to ship to stores. The fruit quality here is really terrible and anything tropical would have been picked unripe, that's why I often choose frozen for tropical fruits. I always cook my apples.

Mittir said:
If you have good composition you may not have any major problem with pectin.
Best guide is to follow reaction to foods. Good food will make you feel better and
sleep is a good indicator too. Steady blood sugar helps with lowering allergic response.
RP recommends 33 to 50 percent of calories from sugar.

I think I get at least 33 percent. I sleep well and eat all day long :) It's really the morning allergies that are the big problem and big mystery for me. I have just been hoping they will go away once I get my metabolism up with thyroid. I honestly am at the end of my rope trying to figure out a specific food source...

Mittir said:
Progesterone also increases release of thyroid hormone.
This can contribute to your high thyroid hormone.

Interesting... I only take it at night, rubbed on my lips and gums, so I don't think it's that much.
 
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j.

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ilovethesea said:
Didn't realize that about the low calcium... I don't have strained yogurt very often and I don't even really like it, so I'll just dump that from my diet.

The calcium is lower than in milk but not low.

Calcium in greek yogurt

Calcium in milk

(change the comparison unit to 100 g. to compare equal amounts)

Butter however is low in calcium.
 

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