Morning wood project (MWP)

[answersfound]

post 105686 what is your context of taking the readings....and what is your pulse usually? i assume the readings are also pretty stable?

It depends what dose of thyroid I am on. Right now I am on no hormones and I wake up with a temps around 97.8, which rises to 98.2 or 98.1 after I eat. My waking pulse is 60 bp, and rises to 70 bp after I eat. Around noon my temps are around 98.4 or 98.6 and my pulse is around 78 bpm, or 80 bpm. When I am on thyroid all of the measurements are higher. With my pulse hitting 100 bpm sometimes...

Those are very hypothyroid measurements. I don't think it is wise to take such high dosages of so many supplements. I think with these readings you are better off focusing on your diet/digestion, and trying to eat more calories and salt while using small amounts of thyroid and/or caffeine and maybe small amounts of aspirin and vitamin A. I also don't think it would be wise to do any type of exercise other than walking until your temp/pulse is a lot higher.

How are those "very" hypothyroid measurements???

 

[Sea]

post 105726

post 105686 what is your context of taking the readings....and what is your pulse usually? i assume the readings are also pretty stable?

It depends what dose of thyroid I am on. Right now I am on no hormones and I wake up with a temps around 97.8, which rises to 98.2 or 98.1 after I eat. My waking pulse is 60 bp, and rises to 70 bp after I eat. Around noon my temps are around 98.4 or 98.6 and my pulse is around 78 bpm, or 80 bpm. When I am on thyroid all of the measurements are higher. With my pulse hitting 100 bpm sometimes...

Those are very hypothyroid measurements. I don't think it is wise to take such high dosages of so many supplements. I think with these readings you are better off focusing on your diet/digestion, and trying to eat more calories and salt while using small amounts of thyroid and/or caffeine and maybe small amounts of aspirin and vitamin A. I also don't think it would be wise to do any type of exercise other than walking until your temp/pulse is a lot higher.

How are those "very" hypothyroid measurements???

Normal/borderline temps are 98.6/85 pulse. It looks like he is peaking during the day at just below what wouldn't be considered hypothyroid. Personally, I think you need to be above 99 temp/100 pulse to actually have solid thyroid function, and to help reverse damage from being hypothyroid I think it is better to maintain an even higher temp/pulse than that.

 

[answersfound]

post 105728

post 105726

post 105686 what is your context of taking the readings....and what is your pulse usually? i assume the readings are also pretty stable?

It depends what dose of thyroid I am on. Right now I am on no hormones and I wake up with a temps around 97.8, which rises to 98.2 or 98.1 after I eat. My waking pulse is 60 bp, and rises to 70 bp after I eat. Around noon my temps are around 98.4 or 98.6 and my pulse is around 78 bpm, or 80 bpm. When I am on thyroid all of the measurements are higher. With my pulse hitting 100 bpm sometimes...

Those are very hypothyroid measurements. I don't think it is wise to take such high dosages of so many supplements. I think with these readings you are better off focusing on your diet/digestion, and trying to eat more calories and salt while using small amounts of thyroid and/or caffeine and maybe small amounts of aspirin and vitamin A. I also don't think it would be wise to do any type of exercise other than walking until your temp/pulse is a lot higher.

How are those "very" hypothyroid measurements???

Normal/borderline temps are 98.6/85 pulse. It looks like he is peaking during the day at just below what wouldn't be considered hypothyroid. Personally, I think you need to be above 99 temp/100 pulse to actually have solid thyroid function, and to help reverse damage from being hypothyroid I think it is better to maintain an even higher temp/pulse than that.

Interesting. How much thyroid do you take?

 

[Joocy_J]

post 105686 what is your context of taking the readings....and what is your pulse usually? i assume the readings are also pretty stable?

It depends what dose of thyroid I am on. Right now I am on no hormones and I wake up with a temps around 97.8, which rises to 98.2 or 98.1 after I eat. My waking pulse is 60 bp, and rises to 70 bp after I eat. Around noon my temps are around 98.4 or 98.6 and my pulse is around 78 bpm, or 80 bpm. When I am on thyroid all of the measurements are higher. With my pulse hitting 100 bpm sometimes...

Those are very hypothyroid measurements. I don't think it is wise to take such high dosages of so many supplements. I think with these readings you are better off focusing on your diet/digestion, and trying to eat more calories and salt while using small amounts of thyroid and/or caffeine and maybe small amounts of aspirin and vitamin A. I also don't think it would be wise to do any type of exercise other than walking until your temp/pulse is a lot higher.

Lol what? I still don't sleep well even when I am on three grains of thyroid. I hit 98.6 and 80 bpm, how is that hypo? the ideal is 98.6/85 bpm. I am only 5 bpm off...

 

[Joocy_J]

post 105710

post 105676

post 105675 also, when you develop the skills of perceiving, thinking, acting (the kind of core of Ray Peat) in regards to diet....those skills transfer to other areas of your life as well.

I guess I don't really understand what you're talking about, could you give me some concrete examples.

I am desperate, because I think I am going to fail out of college if I don't get my libido/sleep back soon. I feel like s*** everyday and have a hard time concentrating/getting my work done. If I fail school, I will most likely kill myself. That is why I am trying this.

I am in similar situation. I am eating very healthy but sometimes still feel very sad, angry or depressed. It is almsot always because of girls. They never give an inch and always take a mile. They are usually detached and cold, and make decisions that are in no ones best interest. When I have a date to look foward to, or just managed to get a chicks number, I always feel much better, happy and have a more positive outlook on life. Then when they don't text or call, as they almost always do, and they for essentially no reason change their mind about you as a guy they want to hang with, it is a very frustrating and helpless feeling. Even if you have a great hand and play your cards perfectly, the house will almost always win. I always thought my early twenties would be a rip-roaring good time, I would cruise around with my buddies picking up babes just like all the coolest dudes in movies and TV... well its way harder than it seems. 90% of girls will hardly even talk to a guy they havent "met" somewhere before by some random circumstance, doesnt matter what he looks or talks like. The ones who do play ball are only in it for the chase it seems. Getting a girl to actually sex is like waaay too ******* difficult. That's where Im at. I guess this didnt help much but I think im right there with you. Life is work work work with zero f***ing payoffs.

Yeah more girls would be nice, but I defiantly have had times in my life where I didn't have a girl and sleep through the night and got a morning erection fine, so I don't think this is my situation. thanks though

 

[dookie]

Joocy_J , I don't think you should be focusing on a single thing like that. Morning wood is not an accurate sign of health. I had excellent morning wood during times when I was sick, with many health problems. I think too much nitric oxide can also lead to morning wood. If you really want morning wood at the expense of everything else (including your health) you can always just pop a viagra.

 

[answersfound]

post 105733 Joocy_J , I don't think you should be focusing on a single thing like that. Morning wood is not an accurate sign of health. I had excellent morning wood during times when I was sick, with many health problems. I think too much nitric oxide can also lead to morning wood. If you really want morning wood at the expense of everything else (including your health) you can always just pop a viagra.

Yea. I've had morning wood even when my temps were in the 96's. This is a good point. But if he believes this to be a indicative of good health for HIM than I can't really argue with that. The body knows best and this is what he believes to be the priority right now, which makes perfect sense.

 

[TheHound]

it sounds like you're in pretty good health Joocy. I know a lot of people probably don't want to hear advice to them like this but my advice to you is get off this forum and live your life. it seems you're focusing way to much on this issue and over analyzing supplements to the extreme in the hopes that it will "Solve" your problem. go out, find a hobby or a few, invest in yourself and stop worrying about this for now

 

[Sea]

post 105686 what is your context of taking the readings....and what is your pulse usually? i assume the readings are also pretty stable?

It depends what dose of thyroid I am on. Right now I am on no hormones and I wake up with a temps around 97.8, which rises to 98.2 or 98.1 after I eat. My waking pulse is 60 bp, and rises to 70 bp after I eat. Around noon my temps are around 98.4 or 98.6 and my pulse is around 78 bpm, or 80 bpm. When I am on thyroid all of the measurements are higher. With my pulse hitting 100 bpm sometimes...

Those are very hypothyroid measurements. I don't think it is wise to take such high dosages of so many supplements. I think with these readings you are better off focusing on your diet/digestion, and trying to eat more calories and salt while using small amounts of thyroid and/or caffeine and maybe small amounts of aspirin and vitamin A. I also don't think it would be wise to do any type of exercise other than walking until your temp/pulse is a lot higher.

Lol what? I still don't sleep well even when I am on three grains of thyroid. I hit 98.6 and 80 bpm, how is that hypo? the ideal is 98.6/85 bpm. I am only 5 bpm off...

The ideal isn't 98.6/85, that is just the minimum temps/pulse to not be considered hypothyroid. If it takes you 3 grains of thyroid just to reach that point then you are obviously quite hypothyroid, especially with a waking pulse of only 60. Imo you need to slow down, stop trying to take massive amounts of supplements and focus more on your diet/activity level while taking some basic supplements like caffeine and aspirin. Taking tons of supplements with those measurements is probably going to increase stress hormones unless you really can eat an absurd amount of food without having that food or the supplements increase serotonin via intestinal irritation.

 

[PTP]

Was not aware of that. Beyond the hormonal issues, the problem sounds partly psychological. You said you would kill yourself if you failed school, I don't want to diminish or insult what seems very serious to you, but that's a pretty drastic action to take for something that is quite minor - possibly a symptom of what Peat might refer to as "learned helplessness". I remember school/college and how it seemed like the whole world back then, but it's not that important a part of life for most people. Now, I don't know the cure for that, but lowering serotonin could certainly help - in haidut's experiment he used around 20g of bcaa's per day, in three doses with high protein meals, but I think he also mentions being a fairly heavy guy at around 90kg. You could try 15g in 3 doeses of 5g.

 

[Vanced]

I was in the same station, no libido, feeling like crap etc. Things only improved when I started T4.

My libido is now raging, along with feeling good and my body re-comping to more muscle and less fat.

No other diet or supplements had much of an effect until I started taking T4, increasing fat in my diet only made me fatter however now when I eat high fat I feel it is increasing my testosterone.

EDIT: Also to add, I was seriously considering injecting testosterone as well, even made an appointment with a 'male health' clinic but didn't go through with it as I knew my problem was thyroid related. I would think very seriously before starting TRT as it will be for life or very hard to come off. There are lots of reports of it not resolving libido issues further down the line as well. You may be great for a few years but 5, 10, 20 years later?

 

[Sea]

post 105730

post 105728

post 105726

post 105686 what is your context of taking the readings....and what is your pulse usually? i assume the readings are also pretty stable?

It depends what dose of thyroid I am on. Right now I am on no hormones and I wake up with a temps around 97.8, which rises to 98.2 or 98.1 after I eat. My waking pulse is 60 bp, and rises to 70 bp after I eat. Around noon my temps are around 98.4 or 98.6 and my pulse is around 78 bpm, or 80 bpm. When I am on thyroid all of the measurements are higher. With my pulse hitting 100 bpm sometimes...

Those are very hypothyroid measurements. I don't think it is wise to take such high dosages of so many supplements. I think with these readings you are better off focusing on your diet/digestion, and trying to eat more calories and salt while using small amounts of thyroid and/or caffeine and maybe small amounts of aspirin and vitamin A. I also don't think it would be wise to do any type of exercise other than walking until your temp/pulse is a lot higher.

How are those "very" hypothyroid measurements???

Normal/borderline temps are 98.6/85 pulse. It looks like he is peaking during the day at just below what wouldn't be considered hypothyroid. Personally, I think you need to be above 99 temp/100 pulse to actually have solid thyroid function, and to help reverse damage from being hypothyroid I think it is better to maintain an even higher temp/pulse than that.

Interesting. How much thyroid do you take?

I usually don't take thyroid anymore since I would have to spend too much of the day eating. Before I would take 1/2 a cynoplus and around 5-10mcg of t3 split up into 3 dosages/day. Now I will occasionally take 1/4 cynoplus but not everyday. I mainly use caffeine, red light and vitamin a as daily supplements.

 

[answersfound]

post 105730

post 105728

post 105726

post 105686 what is your context of taking the readings....and what is your pulse usually? i assume the readings are also pretty stable?

It depends what dose of thyroid I am on. Right now I am on no hormones and I wake up with a temps around 97.8, which rises to 98.2 or 98.1 after I eat. My waking pulse is 60 bp, and rises to 70 bp after I eat. Around noon my temps are around 98.4 or 98.6 and my pulse is around 78 bpm, or 80 bpm. When I am on thyroid all of the measurements are higher. With my pulse hitting 100 bpm sometimes...

Those are very hypothyroid measurements. I don't think it is wise to take such high dosages of so many supplements. I think with these readings you are better off focusing on your diet/digestion, and trying to eat more calories and salt while using small amounts of thyroid and/or caffeine and maybe small amounts of aspirin and vitamin A. I also don't think it would be wise to do any type of exercise other than walking until your temp/pulse is a lot higher.

How are those "very" hypothyroid measurements???

Normal/borderline temps are 98.6/85 pulse. It looks like he is peaking during the day at just below what wouldn't be considered hypothyroid. Personally, I think you need to be above 99 temp/100 pulse to actually have solid thyroid function, and to help reverse damage from being hypothyroid I think it is better to maintain an even higher temp/pulse than that.

Interesting. How much thyroid do you take?

I usually don't take thyroid anymore since I would have to spend too much of the day eating. Before I would take 1/2 a cynoplus and around 5-10mcg of t3 split up into 3 dosages/day. Now I will occasionally take 1/4 cynoplus but not everyday. I mainly use caffeine, red light and vitamin a as daily supplements.

Calorie requirements decrease with thyroid supplementation. The body becomes more efficient.

 

[Sea]

Calorie requirements decrease with thyroid supplementation. The body becomes more efficient.

That has been my experience since I only eat around 3000 calories now when I am not taking a lot of supplements. When I was more hypothyroid I would often need 4-5000 calories/day. But, I don't think requiring less calories applies to thyroid supplementation, but to better thyroid function. If you supplement thyroid you are artificially boosting the metabolism which I think will usually require more calories. And, if you try to maintain a 130+ pulse rate I think you will find that more food is often needed. More than once I have pushed my metabolism to high and had to force feed myself an extra 1500 calories to stop adrenaline which is a very annoying thing to have to do since adrenaline suppresses appetite.

 

[mayweatherking]

6 GRAMS of aspirin? this is my first time commenting on aspirin so I know peat likes his aspirin.. but how do you know your limit or where does it say this is generally safe out of curiousity? i've been taking 81mg aspirins throughout the day. damn.

 

[answersfound]

6 GRAMS of aspirin? this is my first time commenting on aspirin so I know peat likes his aspirin.. but how do you know your limit or where does it say this is generally safe out of curiousity? i've been taking 81mg aspirins throughout the day. damn.

i think it's safe as long as you are using adequate vitamin K. Also, if you use caffeine, that protects the stomach against any sort of gastric injury. Do I think 6 grams is necessary? No. Maybe 1 gram could be helpful. I find that 1 gram helps reduce estrogen and I know this because I feel more muscular from aspirin.

 

[XPlus]

Sounds like a suicide mission to me.

After going off paleo, it was the simple things that did it for me.
Something like few tablespoons of honey.

Besides being one of the forms of sugar involved in ordinary energy production, interchangeable with glucose, fructose has some special functions, that aren't as well performed by glucose. It is the main sugar involved in reproduction, in the seminal fluid and intrauterine fluid, and in the developing fetus.

 

[tara]

post 105695 Start slow, one supplement at a time. Watch the effect before you raise the dose.

:1
I too think the taurine and niacinamide and maybe aspirin doses look frighteningly high.
I'd suggest smaller starting doses and incrementing based on your observaions.

-Niacinamide: I'm in favour of trying niacinamide, but just work up gradually so you don't get a killer headache etc from overding it. 100mg with every meal, maybe increasing gradually to 2 or 3 times that if observation tells you it is worth trying. 3g/day would be a high amount that may be useful, depending on the person. Some people get trouble at much less than this.

-Taurine: according to Natedawggh, 500mg morning and evening were what he found helpful. Maybe you can try going a bit higher than that, but there have been reports of high amounts causing trouble. Where are you getting 15g from?

-Aspirin: You may be able to handle that much, but it's hard to know unless you try it, and it seems safer to start with less and work up if it seems OK. Eg. start with no more than 1g split over day for a week, and increase gradually if it seems OK, or decrease if it doesn't. You should get some effect from even less (I think I can tell the differnce after even just 100mg). Glycine can help protect against aspirin - I don' t see glycine or gelatin or collagen in your list - may be worth adding?

-Vits D, A: Haidut recommends a ratio of vits D:A be 1:5. Personal need for these this seems to vary a lot - Peat has talked about at some times (when his metabolism was really high) he needed 100000IU vit A, but at other (lower metabolism) times this was way too much, and that for low metabolism states, 5000IU may be enough. How about starting smaller, and increasing if it seems good?

post 105749 Calorie requirements decrease with thyroid supplementation. The body becomes more efficient.

I know this can sometimes be the case, but I don't think it always is. If the hypothyroid state is caused by energy deficiency (ie undereating and/or overexercising), then increased calorie consumption and increased metabolism are more likely to go together. (Not saying this is necessarily the case for OP, but I dont think he has been eating crazy high calories.)

I think a resting heartrate of 80-90 would be fine - not sure that over 100 would be preferable. But a resting heartrate of 60 at waking is lower than Peat recommends. I don't necessarily think pushing temps above 99 deg F is necessarily a good idea either. As metabolism increases, pulse can be expected to lag behind temps, but I don't know by how long.

In terms of strategy, I wonder whether paying more attention to what improves sleep might be more primary - I imagine sleep-deprivation could really mess with your mood and being to able to study effectively, and could well be affecting the rest of your metabolism, including reproductive system. Got any clues on this end of the problem?

 

[franko]

post 105635 Any other suggestions/criticism would be appreciated. thanks

I have similar issues. You might be find some useful info in my log, I've done a good bit of experimentation: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6584&p=106315

I can personally attest to the libido raising affects of DHT cream. But I also have experimented with AI's and TRT and felt what it's like to go from T in the 300's to T of 1500+ (on TRT) .

I prefer the feeling of high / high-normal Testosterone to the DHT feeling. On DHT cream I had high libido, but it was kind of distracting and unproductive. On high T, I have motivation and energy for life in general — getting out of bed in the morning, bettering my career, socializing, etc. — and my libido does not spontaneously distract me, but is plenty strong in the presence of the right stimuli.

Regarding clomid, haidut has said this about it:

Why are you taking clomid or tamoxifen? Do you know how estrogenic they are? Peat's website has articles on both. They are both synthetic estrogens with slightly modified function to make them somewhat anti-estrogenic in specific tissues but overall they are still synthetic estrogens. Clomid is highly estrogenic to brain and bones, do not get fooled by studies showing it can increase T. People with MS, a brain condition from high estrogen, have died from taking clomid. Both clomid and tamofixen will fry your liver, as they are both estrogens. Exemestane is probably OK, but not until you figure the issue with prolactin.

So clomid and nolvadex are probably a bad idea.

Haidut said this about exemestane:

A possible exception is exemestane, which is actually a synthetic version of the hormone DHT and is much safer. Peat has even said that taking DHT topically would be a good idea, so this drug would be a possible alternative to topical DHT. In people it lowers estrogen, increases T and DHT and has anti-depressant activity.

So you could try exemestane (aromasin) to raise your testosterone.

Personally, it has raised my Testosterone from a low of 328 to my most recent level of 700. And it's a lot easier than doing injections.

 

[Joocy_J]

post 106322

post 105635 Any other suggestions/criticism would be appreciated. thanks

I have similar issues. You might be find some useful info in my log, I've done a good bit of experimentation: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6584&p=106315

I can personally attest to the libido raising affects of DHT cream. But I also have experimented with AI's and TRT and felt what it's like to go from T in the 300's to T of 1500+ (on TRT) .

I prefer the feeling of high / high-normal Testosterone to the DHT feeling. On DHT cream I had high libido, but it was kind of distracting and unproductive. On high T, I have motivation and energy for life in general — getting out of bed in the morning, bettering my career, socializing, etc. — and my libido does not spontaneously distract me, but is plenty strong in the presence of the right stimuli.

Regarding clomid, haidut has said this about it:

Why are you taking clomid or tamoxifen? Do you know how estrogenic they are? Peat's website has articles on both. They are both synthetic estrogens with slightly modified function to make them somewhat anti-estrogenic in specific tissues but overall they are still synthetic estrogens. Clomid is highly estrogenic to brain and bones, do not get fooled by studies showing it can increase T. People with MS, a brain condition from high estrogen, have died from taking clomid. Both clomid and tamofixen will fry your liver, as they are both estrogens. Exemestane is probably OK, but not until you figure the issue with prolactin.

So clomid and nolvadex are probably a bad idea.

Haidut said this about exemestane:

A possible exception is exemestane, which is actually a synthetic version of the hormone DHT and is much safer. Peat has even said that taking DHT topically would be a good idea, so this drug would be a possible alternative to topical DHT. In people it lowers estrogen, increases T and DHT and has anti-depressant activity.

So you could try exemestane (aromasin) to raise your testosterone.

Personally, it has raised my Testosterone from a low of 328 to my most recent level of 700. And it's a lot easier than doing injections.

Thanks, I checked out your thread. I tried arimidex, but it didn't make me feel any better, just sent my pulse through the roof (120 bpm). I am going to a good anti-aging doctor soon, so I will see what he thinks. Aromasin would be easy, I will check it out.