No Libido/hypogonadism Need Help Please

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Joocy_J

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tara said:
Joocy_J said:
post 103833
halken said:
post 103800 Try looking beyond supplementation.

What else is there? My diet is good, I get regular sunlight, regular socialization, etc..

Time?
How long did it take you to drive your metabolism down? How long have you been meeting your nutritional needs for (including eating to appetite)?

Have you had any improvements in any areas since you made these changes? If you've not had any improvements, then it seems reasonable to consider other approaches. If you've had some beginning changes to a good direction, then it could be that you are on a good path and will eventually get improvements in more areas. Libido is not always the first function to come back on line - if you have been depleted, the body may have other priorities to attend to first.

My libido was fine until march and then I lost it during a period of high stress (unrelated to exercise or under-eating), despite having good temps and pulse during the time my libido disappeared. I was peating during the time that my libido disappeared.

The extreme stress ended around June, and I stopped exercising at the end of August.

But the issue is that for a week during the summer my libido came back but disappeared after that week. I have no clue why this happened. During this time I switched to synthetic thyroid from NDT.

I need to feel fine now, I don't have time. That is why I am trying other things in addition to the diet.

So, I lost the libido five months or so ago. I might just use trt indefinitely to make sure this does't happen again, I don't know if I can lift heavy and keep my health without outside hormonal support.
 
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Joocy_J

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tara said:
post 103968
Joocy_J said:
post 103833
halken said:
post 103800 Try looking beyond supplementation.

What else is there? My diet is good, I get regular sunlight, regular socialization, etc..

Time?
How long did it take you to drive your metabolism down? How long have you been meeting your nutritional needs for (including eating to appetite)?

Have you had any improvements in any areas since you made these changes? If you've not had any improvements, then it seems reasonable to consider other approaches. If you've had some beginning changes to a good direction, then it could be that you are on a good path and will eventually get improvements in more areas. Libido is not always the first function to come back on line - if you have been depleted, the body may have other priorities to attend to first.

I am not sure if you have read my whole thread, but the strangest thing is that my pulse and temps are good on three grains NDT and I still don;t have a libido. Thanks for your suggestions though
 
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tara

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I have read your whole thread as you've posted it, but I haven't reread all of it now so I don't recall everything. What I do recall is that a couple of months ago you were limiting you calories even though you were hungry, and working out hard. Energy deficiency is one reason the body can reduce reproductive functions. It's not always the first thing to recover when energy is restored. That's why I ask if you are getting any health benefits in other areas - if so, it is a hopeful sign.
The way I tend to think of it, since reading Olwyn's writing (not all from Peat), is that the body's priorities, when it starts to get sufficient fuel again, may be something like:
- urgent repairs (sometimes involves bloating)
- fill the long-term reserve fuel stores in preparation for the next famine
- repair and rebuild essential organs
- repair and rebuild other organs
And then, if the energy supply has been reliable for long enough that it 'trusts' it:
- restore general metabolism (ie bring up thyroid levels, temps, pulse, etc
- restore reproductive function
- redistribute and/or release the reserve long-term fuel stores

And we can be impatient that our bodies' priorities (honed beautifully by evolutionary stresses for survival) don't match our own conscious desires, but that doesn't necessarily change them.
You can presumably drive up your metabolism with supplementary thyroid even in energy deficiency, and get higher temps and pulse, but this is likely to have costs, and maybe one of them might be deferring full reproductive system restoration for the meantime.

Joocy_J said:
post 103980 So, I lost the libido five months or so ago. I might just use trt indefinitely to make sure this does't happen again, I don't know if I can lift heavy and keep my health without outside hormonal support.
You get to choose your priorities, but it may be that heavy weight-lifting is not compatible with optimal health recovery and optimal lidido and low body-fat etc at this time. I'm not saying I know this about you - but sometimes people have to lay off extreme physical stress for a while to be able to recover, and/or relax about fat gain or ease up on some parameters to allow others to move.

Joocy_J said:
post 103980 But the issue is that for a week during the summer my libido came back but disappeared after that week. I have no clue why this happened. During this time I switched to synthetic thyroid from NDT.
I don't know exactly what happened to you during this time. But one thing that I think can happen, is that people push their metabolism up with supplements, but the body realises it isn't currently up to sustaining the higher metabolism at this time, for whatever reason, so it applies some countermeasures to bring it back down a bit. Switching to NDT presumably increased T3 for a bit. Maybe your system down-regulated somehow to counteract this. Again, I don't know this, it's just a speculation.

Joocy_J said:
post 103980 I need to feel fine now, I don't have time. That is why I am trying other things in addition to the diet.
I'm sure we'd all like to be well instantly. I don't have time to be sick either. Makes sense to me to look at other non-diet tactics too.
If I thought there was a low-risk low-cost high-success supplement that would fix my health NOW, I'd be in. But lots of people get into worse trouble by impatience and recklessness and wanting the impossible. I know I've borne decades of too-high stress to get where I am now. I don't expect it to fix overnight (though I'll be delighted if it happens). I'll be pleased if I can find a way to get gradual improvement that shows I've turned things around, even if it takes a year or two to get well.

When someone breaks a leg it takes time to heal, even under optimal conditions, whether they have time for it or not. How long it takes for metabolism to recover once adequate nutrition (including calories) is in place varies. You are young and male, so maybe it will be shorter than average. But I imagine it would still be common for it to take at least a few months, maybe more. That doesn't mean it makes sense to persist with something that is not working - you want to have some evidence that things are overall going in a good direction.

I don't necessarily know that cautious TRT is a bad idea for you - that's up to you - I don't know enough about it. But I gather Peat has suggested other options as generally being safer.
 
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Joocy_J

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tara said:
I don't know exactly what happened to you during this time. But one thing that I think can happen, is that people push their metabolism up with supplements, but the body realises it isn't currently up to sustaining the higher metabolism at this time, for whatever reason, so it applies some countermeasures to bring it back down a bit. Switching to NDT presumably increased T3 for a bit. Maybe your system down-regulated somehow to counteract this. Again, I don't know this, it's just a speculation.

I mean I was on three grains of NDT and switched to a lower dose of synthetic and my libido came back overnight. So there was less t3 in my body. But, this libido only lasted a week and than disappeared despite the same dose of thyroid being taken.
 
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Joocy_J

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tara said:
post 103986 What I do recall is that a couple of months ago you were limiting you calories even though you were hungry, and working out hard.

I think I might have miscommunicated this. I was wasn't in a large deficit if I was in one at all. I was just not extremely full after meals. My body image issues have to do with not being big enough, so I would have not reason to limit calories significantly. I was making gains in the gym during this time period - something that would not be possible if I was in a large deficit (or some may argue a deficit at all for that matter).
 
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michael94

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Joocy_J said:
My libido was fine until march and then I lost it during a period of high stress (unrelated to exercise or under-eating), despite having good temps and pulse during the time my libido disappeared. I was peating during the time that my libido disappeared.

The extreme stress ended around June, and I stopped exercising at the end of August.

But the issue is that for a week during the summer my libido came back but disappeared after that week. I have no clue why this happened. During this time I switched to synthetic thyroid from NDT.

I need to feel fine now, I don't have time. That is why I am trying other things in addition to the diet.

So, I lost the libido five months or so ago. I might just use trt indefinitely to make sure this does't happen again, I don't know if I can lift heavy and keep my health without outside hormonal support.


I was looking through the thread at your bloodwork and didn't see any E2 levels checked ( unless I missed it ). Did you get that tested? I see you have Arimidex on hand, throw that in the garbage imo. If you want to use an AI Aromasin is superior in every way for 95% of cases ( some men on loads of aromatizing steroids find it is not strong enough ).


Also, I would chill out on the antioxidants if you are exercising intensely, http://www.pnas.org/content/106/21/8665.long

Lifting heavy is a good acute stress, assuming you are getting adequate nutrition. Even on a deficit, it generally does less harm than good unless you push the volume too far.
 
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Joocy_J

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icecreamlover said:
Joocy_J said:
My libido was fine until march and then I lost it during a period of high stress (unrelated to exercise or under-eating), despite having good temps and pulse during the time my libido disappeared. I was peating during the time that my libido disappeared.

The extreme stress ended around June, and I stopped exercising at the end of August.

But the issue is that for a week during the summer my libido came back but disappeared after that week. I have no clue why this happened. During this time I switched to synthetic thyroid from NDT.

I need to feel fine now, I don't have time. That is why I am trying other things in addition to the diet.

So, I lost the libido five months or so ago. I might just use trt indefinitely to make sure this does't happen again, I don't know if I can lift heavy and keep my health without outside hormonal support.


I was looking through the thread at your bloodwork and didn't see any E2 levels checked ( unless I missed it ). Did you get that tested? I see you have Arimidex on hand, throw that in the garbage imo. If you want to use an AI Aromasin is superior in every way for 95% of cases ( some men on loads of aromatizing steroids find it is not strong enough ).


Also, I would chill out on the antioxidants if you are exercising intensely, http://www.pnas.org/content/106/21/8665.long

Lifting heavy is a good acute stress, assuming you are getting adequate nutrition. Even on a deficit, it generally does less harm than good unless you push the volume too far.

I didn't check my e2 because I read that e2 tests are not accurate. I know guys on steroids use the e2 all the time though.I took the arimidex one day and my pulse shot up to 120 bpm, with no other noticeable changes so I stopped taking it.

Thanks for the help

Also what are the antioxidants you are referring to? Magnesium?
 
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Joocy_J

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I am on two grains NDT and fifty mcg t3 now with my pulse at 100 bpm, and temp at 98.9. I might lower the NDT to one grain and keep the t3 if this continues. Maybe the t4 in the NDT was blocking my thyroid? I am tempted to try t3 only for awhile to clear all the t4 and see what my metabolism does.
 

Ami

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If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.
 
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Joocy_J

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Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.
 
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Joocy_J

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Joocy_J said:
post 104059
Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

I would also rather just use DHT cream if I did this. That is what Provision is right? a DHT derivative?
 
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Ami

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Joocy_J said:
post 104063
Joocy_J said:
post 104059
Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

I would also rather just use DHT cream if I did this. That is what Provision is right? a DHT derivative?
Yes. If you can afford the cream then that may be better.
 
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tara

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Joocy_J said:
post 97201 I eat around 4200 cals everyday, although thinking of bumping it up to 4500ish. I have a huge appetite though and could easily down 6000 cals, but I am maintaining my weight on 4200 currently so I figure I am getting enough.

Joocy_J said:
post 104030
tara said:
post 103986 What I do recall is that a couple of months ago you were limiting you calories even though you were hungry, and working out hard.

I think I might have miscommunicated this. I was wasn't in a large deficit if I was in one at all. I was just not extremely full after meals. My body image issues have to do with not being big enough, so I would have not reason to limit calories significantly. I was making gains in the gym during this time period - something that would not be possible if I was in a large deficit (or some may argue a deficit at all for that matter).

Maybe. But if what you said earlier was true, and you were maintaining weight while increasing muscle, then it was coming from some other part of you, by some mechanism. What about before that?

I think if we are eating less than to appetite, it can be hard to tell how much more we would actually want if we weren't restricting. So it's hard to tell how large the deficit is wrt needs. Any chronic deficit may signal the body that it can't afford to keep the reproductive system in full swing as a top priority?
 
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Joocy_J

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tara said:
Joocy_J said:
post 97201 I eat around 4200 cals everyday, although thinking of bumping it up to 4500ish. I have a huge appetite though and could easily down 6000 cals, but I am maintaining my weight on 4200 currently so I figure I am getting enough.

Joocy_J said:
post 104030
tara said:
post 103986 What I do recall is that a couple of months ago you were limiting you calories even though you were hungry, and working out hard.

I think I might have miscommunicated this. I was wasn't in a large deficit if I was in one at all. I was just not extremely full after meals. My body image issues have to do with not being big enough, so I would have not reason to limit calories significantly. I was making gains in the gym during this time period - something that would not be possible if I was in a large deficit (or some may argue a deficit at all for that matter).

Maybe. But if what you said earlier was true, and you were maintaining weight while increasing muscle, then it was coming from some other part of you, by some mechanism. What about before that?

I think if we are eating less than to appetite, it can be hard to tell how much more we would actually want if we weren't restricting. So it's hard to tell how large the deficit is wrt needs. Any chronic deficit may signal the body that it can't afford to keep the reproductive system in full swing as a top priority?

Maybe I am not communicating clearly, but I know for a fact that I lost my libido due to chronic stress, as opposed to under-eating. Without going into too much detail the stress going on in my life from March to June was extreme to say the least, and had a clear beginning and end. It is obvious to me that when this stress started my libido disappeared.
 
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Miggie

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Joocy_J said:
Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

For me proviron didn't do a thing if anything it just made my acne worse lol.
 
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Joocy_J

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Miggie said:
post 104211
Joocy_J said:
Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

For me proviron didn't do a thing if anything it just made my acne worse lol.

What else have you tried?
 
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Miggie

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Joocy_J said:
post 104212
Miggie said:
post 104211
Joocy_J said:
Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

For me proviron didn't do a thing if anything it just made my acne worse lol.

What else have you tried?

Well I'm on roids as well and even testosterone can't give me libido. I have been doing an "estrogen" detox for a long while now and libido only seems to get worse on it.

But sofar I have tried progesterone cream ( which made everything worse, made my chest sag and got some heavy acne on my back from it).
Proviron, which didn't do anything for me.
Caber I tried that for a few weeks and only noticed a little improvement.

Edit: I also tried every aromatase inhibitor that is on the market and I didn't get any benefit from it at all, the only side effect i got from it was that my joints became a bit stiffer but that's it.
 
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Joocy_J

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Miggie said:
post 104217
Joocy_J said:
post 104212
Miggie said:
post 104211
Joocy_J said:
Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

For me proviron didn't do a thing if anything it just made my acne worse lol.

What else have you tried?

Well I'm on roids as well and even testosterone can't give me libido. I have been doing an "estrogen" detox for a long while now and libido only seems to get worse on it.

But sofar I have tried progesterone cream ( which made everything worse, made my chest sag and got some heavy acne on my back from it).
Proviron, which didn't do anything for me.
Caber I tried that for a few weeks and only noticed a little improvement.

Edit: I also tried every aromatase inhibitor that is on the market and I didn't get any benefit from it at all, the only side effect i got from it was that my joints became a bit stiffer but that's it.

Do you blast and cruise? What was your libido like before roids? thanks
 
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Miggie

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Joocy_J said:
post 104218
Miggie said:
post 104217
Joocy_J said:
post 104212
Miggie said:
post 104211
Joocy_J said:
Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

For me proviron didn't do a thing if anything it just made my acne worse lol.

What else have you tried?

Well I'm on roids as well and even testosterone can't give me libido. I have been doing an "estrogen" detox for a long while now and libido only seems to get worse on it.

But sofar I have tried progesterone cream ( which made everything worse, made my chest sag and got some heavy acne on my back from it).
Proviron, which didn't do anything for me.
Caber I tried that for a few weeks and only noticed a little improvement.

Edit: I also tried every aromatase inhibitor that is on the market and I didn't get any benefit from it at all, the only side effect i got from it was that my joints became a bit stiffer but that's it.

Do you blast and cruise? What was your libido like before roids? thanks

Yes I blast and cruise and before steroids my libido was pretty high. I started a first cycle at age 20 and then cycled off. I have been blasting and cruising since I was 21. I tried a lot of compounds and could always maintain a libido as long as test was in. Once I started believing into the estrogen dominance thing I supplemented with a lot of zinc and other anti estrogenic herbs/vitamins but then my libido started dropping and dropping. Now I'm at a point where I don't care for sex but I can still get a good erection. I'm guessing I have progesterone toxicity. My temps are always high especially after a meal and my heart rate is in the 90s as well in rest.
 
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Joocy_J

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Miggie said:
Joocy_J said:
post 104218
Miggie said:
post 104217
Joocy_J said:
post 104212
Miggie said:
post 104211
Joocy_J said:
Ami said:
If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

For me proviron didn't do a thing if anything it just made my acne worse lol.

What else have you tried?

Well I'm on roids as well and even testosterone can't give me libido. I have been doing an "estrogen" detox for a long while now and libido only seems to get worse on it.

But sofar I have tried progesterone cream ( which made everything worse, made my chest sag and got some heavy acne on my back from it).
Proviron, which didn't do anything for me.
Caber I tried that for a few weeks and only noticed a little improvement.

Edit: I also tried every aromatase inhibitor that is on the market and I didn't get any benefit from it at all, the only side effect i got from it was that my joints became a bit stiffer but that's it.

Do you blast and cruise? What was your libido like before roids? thanks

Yes I blast and cruise and before steroids my libido was pretty high. I started a first cycle at age 20 and then cycled off. I have been blasting and cruising since I was 21. I tried a lot of compounds and could always maintain a libido as long as test was in. Once I started believing into the estrogen dominance thing I supplemented with a lot of zinc and other anti estrogenic herbs/vitamins but then my libido started dropping and dropping. Now I'm at a point where I don't care for sex but I can still get a good erection. I'm guessing I have progesterone toxicity. My temps are always high especially after a meal and my heart rate is in the 90s as well in rest.

Interesting, I think we have a similar issue as I can get an erection but have no libido. Although, I have never done steroids. What is progesterone toxicity? Like what are the symptoms?

My pulse and temps are also good.
 
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