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MitoLipin For Idiopathic Constipation?

Discussion in 'Digestion' started by Zpol, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    I seem to recall a couple people posting on MitoLipin helping with constipation.
    I think it was from these two people...
    @tomisonbottom
    @Greenie

    Anyone else have this effect from MitoLipin?
    How much and how often do you use it?

    I already take max dose of Aged Cascara Sagrada Bark, Aloe Ferox (these two I rotate), everyday I take Milk of Magnesia, coffee, proteolytic enzymes, Energin, T3 and T4, Estroban, Pansterone, Lapodin, Oxidal, Progest-e (second half of cycle). And now I've had to add in enemas on occasion, along with the laxatives.

    I've tried Taurine, it helped at first, then about a week into it it started worsening the constipation.
    Also, tried Magnesium oxide and citrate, helped at first then stopped being effective. I'm hoping the MoM continues to help. I make Magnesium bicarb water with it.

    Perhaps other @haidut supp's are beneficial?
    Also, are there any serotonin antagonists/dopamine agonists that don't contribute to constipation?

    One more question, I've been taking the Lapodin transdermally, should I be ingesting it instead (for it to help with constipation)?
     
  2. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

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    How much t4 are you taking? Are you sure you need t4?

    That's a lot of supps.....might be more than your metabolism can handle.

    How much cascara are you taking.....never heard of a "max dose" for cascara.

    Mine is easily handled with enough cascara and T3.
    Raw honey, several spoons at once can also be very effective.

    How many calories do you eat? How is your digestion?
     
  3. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Thank @tomisonbottom , for your response!

    Not much, 50MCG, and I forgot to mention, I only take it 6 days per week.

    I know. I definitely seems like too much. I will probably quit the Pansterone, doesn't seem to be doing anything. I thought it was helping with night sweats but apparently not, since I have them again (I realized this past week, the night sweats usually come on days when I work, all day spent in the dark, so I'm theorizing I need to do some red light therapy in the evenings). Those are just the supps I take for metabolic purposes, and to help with my gene variant issue (I have this MTHFR SNP, so cannot methylate properly). I also take supp's for allergies, Zyrtec, and D-hist, and benadryl.

    I take 1600mg. I take a supplement called "Pure Mountain Botanicals", it's in capsules so I don't know the tsp measurement. I used to take the powder from Mountain Herbs but made me gag after a while (I also have gastritis so that's a factor too).

    Hmm, interesting. I could ask my doc about T3 only. She originally just wanted me to take T4, but that wasn't bringing my TSH down so she added the T3. The T4 is helping, but not quite enough, so that's why she kept me on it.

    Oh?! Like how much? You take at bedtime? Wouldn't this spike your blood sugar too much? I thought this much sugar should only be consumed with balanced fat and protein. But I'll try anything!

    Gosh, not sure, I probably should eat more though. I'd guess 1600 to 2000 per day. I would like to eat more but it's rough because of poor digestion. I have gastroparesis, gastritis, GERD, LPR, Celiac, Small intestine bacterial overgrowth, dysbiosis, and autoimmune reactions to dairy, all grains except oats, and fat malabsorption at times. (I'm female, 39yro., 5', 105 lbs., so I don't need quite as much calories as most average size people)

    I appreciate any tips you've got!
    My next step is to add in Creatine ( l-arginine, l-glycine, and l-methionine) to reduce the need for methylation. Then try to tackle these gastrointestinal bacterial overgrowth infections with bacteriophages and Squalene. I tried the Rifaxamin Rx but it didn't help. I read penicillin might help but my doc won't prescribe it.
     
  4. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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  5. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

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    I would not be taking any t4 if I were you. There are too many risks, and not enough benefits.
    Have you read any of Ray peat's thoughts on t4? Most doctors do not know anything about fixing thyroid issues and t4 not only often doesn't help, it often hurts a person's progress.


    Also would not take creatine. You can just use gelatin, or collagen, or glycine/taurine.

    Have you read Ray's work on methionine? You don't want to ever add more of that to your diet. Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

    But even if you stayed on that, there's no reason not to take more cascara.

    Constipation itself is very harmful, so you always want to keep things moving. If you don't, you're going to raise your stress hormones through endotoxin release.
    This is likely a very simple solution.
    Try taking more cascara until you get the results you need.
    Keep in mind with cascara it can often take 12-20 hours to create a bowel movement but once you get going you can get it more predictable.

    So if 1600mg isn't working, taking 3200. That stuff definitely works. Maybe stay near a bathroom while you get the exact dose figured out. I buy the powder in bulk, and have taken as much as 1/2 a tablespoon before.
     
  6. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

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    Also, you definitely want to use cronometer and track what you're eating.

    This is a mistake I see so many people making. They want to fix everything with supplements, but don't know how many calories they're eating, or what the macro nutrient breakdown is, or the micronutrient.
    Food will always be the most powerful medicine.
    Constipation comes from a slow metabolism, which sometimes comes from simply not eating enough, or eating things you can't digest..........so make sure you're eating enough high quality nutrient dense organic whole foods without additives that are easy to digest.

    It's a waste of time in my opinion to worry about complex things such as methylation if you don't even keep track of your diet. that's the foundation to understanding anything about what's happening in your body.
     
  7. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Yes, I heard this. I'm not sure I fully understand though. I don't understand the danger of not having enough T4 as opposed to having too much as unmonitored supplementation could cause too much. I'll havet to look further into it. Thanks for the link to this clip, hadn't seen it before.

    Also, I'll have to look into this more. I thought it was ok to have methionine as long as it was balanced with glycine. But, I'm learning. I don't understand it all just yet. I'll hold off on it till I understand. The taurine alone helped at first, then made me more constipated, so I don't know about that either.

    True but my concern is the stimulant action. 1600mg was working fine, but now I need more. This is scary, I'm worried I'll just have to keep taking more and more.

    Again, thank you so much for help with this. There's so much info out there, I'm doing my best to keep track of everything .
     
  8. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

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    There is nothing harmful about continuing to take it.
    Constipation is harmful. Cascara is not, and you won't have to keep increasing the dose; you just aren't taking enough. I've been taking CS for years and it's much healthier than milk of magnesia or anything else.

    People say the same thing about thyroid but Ray Peat continues to take thyroid. Same with any other nutrient. You don't just take it once, you take it for life.
    For me I found increased T3 lessoned the need for CS.
    I take much less cascara now then I used to because my health is improved, so if anything your need for cascara will go down with time, not up.
     
  9. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Your success is very inspiring to me!

    I take liothyronine 5MCG (Rx T3) 2x per day, morning and evening (resulting in about a 4:1 ratio of T4 to T3). My doc won't increase it anymore. I might try an additional non-Rx T3. Do you use the Blue Sky Peptides or prescription? Also, perhaps my dosing is not often enough. Do you take drops or "nibbles" throughout the day? I don't know how people manage to do this microdosing every hour or two, but if it works then I'll figure out how to somehow.

    Thank you again for taking the time to help:D
     
  10. lisaferraro

    lisaferraro Member

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    Hi @Zpol! I still love this supplement - almost feels like a food rather than a supplement.
    I stack it with DeFibron now and use in morning after shower:

    *10 drops oral Mitolipin
    *10 drops Mitolipin rubbed on my belly
    *5 drops Defibron orally
    *5 drops Defibron rubbed on face and neck like @Regina recommended.

    Feeling great from these two. I usually take one or two days off a week on weekends.

    Actually other than 1 Serrapeptase and 1 digestive enzyme at night for system tune up of sorts, and 1 capsule 4 days a week of the Artemisinin, again system tune up, I am not on any other supplement. I rarely even need Aspirin anymore - maybe every few months? I think I have found my sweet spot.

    Search for Artemisinin and forum member @bzmazu’s posts and forum member Sheila’s posts about it.

    Funny about the smell/taste. It changes over time, sometimes more fishy, sometimes nutty even. Same with Defibron actually. Says to me it has to do more with my chemistry and state of my body/diet. @haidut or anyone know why the smell changes over time? Kind of back and forth meaning sometimes fishy sometimes nutty sometimes not much?
     
  11. mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    can you take your temperature when you are in a constipation like state and see what it is? most people can't help you here with your problem, they don't understand it and just think you need to take magnesium or some probiotic.

    how much T4 are you taking?
     
  12. mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    what about T4 is dangerous exactly? this youtube video is completely out of context, he is saying taking t4 only is a problem, he has said many times the thyroid works best with a 4 to 1 or 3 to 1 ratio of T4 to T3. in other words, he recommends taking T3 with the T4, not to abandon the T4.
     
  13. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Heh, was just in the process of researching Artemisinin!
    Seriously, thank you so much for posting your regimen. I have also been researching Defibron, so good to know it's okay to stack them.

    I think I'll just try it and see in regards to the fishy/nutty smell. I think it has something to do with the state of one's microbiome; the bacteria affect the way the Phosphatidylcholine is digested and the amount of Trimethylglycine that is produced. The Trimethylglycine is what causes the smell. And apparently one's Riboflavin status affects the process too. I read from this article and another which I can't find a the moment. As you can see, I don't fully understand just yet (wishing I had a biochem education right now!).

    I've been taking proteolytic enzymes on an empty stomach for the past couple weeks now, so hopefully these are working to weaken biofilm (amongst other things), making this a good time to start with the Artemisinin.

    Thanks again. Your comments are definitely helping me feel more hopeful and positive!
     
  14. lisaferraro

    lisaferraro Member

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    Aaawww...you made my day :): I am so happy to help @Zpol. Keep going. I promise it all pays off ❤️❤️
     
  15. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Yes, you are so right. Most people don't understand what it means to be so relentlessly constipated, it's the worst, and I've tried nearly all remedies already.
    My constipation state is basically always. I have tracked my temps and pulses intermittently the last few years. It's pretty stable at 97.6 to 98.1, with my resting pulse is about 85bpm. I know my temps aren't ideal but not in the danger zone either.

    I take 50MCG T4 (levothyronine) and 5MCG T3 (liothyronine) in the mornings and another 5MCG T3 (liothyronine) at night, except Sunday which I skip the T4 and just take 2 divided doses of T3.
    I wonder if it's something in the form of the T3, it's a tablet so likely has harmful exipients. I'm thinking maybe I'll switch to Blue Sky Peptides.
     
  16. lisaferraro

    lisaferraro Member

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    @Zpol, one more note: the Artemisinin has broken up the biofilm in my experience. Powerful stuff. I take 4 days on, 3 days off. Can not take continuously, too strong.
     
  17. mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    i disagree, i'd say your temperature is in the danger zone, especially if you are constipated. i know because this happens to me too at that temperature.

    i'm still working on it myself.. but i think it's possible you could be in such a high stress situation, that the T4 is not converting into T3. i mean, clearly that is what is happening, because if it was converting into T3, your temperature would be at the 98.6.

    if your temp is below 98.6, the magnesium is 1, not being retained and that is what makes the bowels move, 2, B vitamins are going bye bye and being wasted, 3, salt is not staying in place as it should, and you see the negative cycle start to spin right round right round...

    ray talks about how T3 microdosing and taking a few mcg to get some thyroid active in the body.. pregnenloen and progesterone are two other things that can help in high stress situations where T4 is not doing what it should...

    of course... with all other things considered, like vit D levels good, calcium intake good, enough protein everyday, etc etc...
     
  18. mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    also the ratio of T4 to T3 you are taking, ray would say it should be closer to 3:1, or 4:1 is fairly popular too i think if your liver can convert it well, here are some good quotes from one of ray's articles i think could be helpful:

    . Since most T3 is produced from T4 in the liver, not in the brain, I think that experiment had great significance, despite the ignorant interpretation of the author. An excess of thyroxine, in a tissue that doesn't convert it rapidly to T3, has an antithyroid action. (See Goumaz, et al, 1987.) This happens in many women who are given thyroxine; as their dose is increased, their symptoms get worse.

    Reverse T3 (rT3) doesn't have much ability to enter the brain, but increased T4 can cause it to be produced in the brain. These observations suggest to me that the blood's T3:T4 ratio would be very "brain favorable" if it approached more closely to the ratio formed in the thyroid gland, and secreted into the blood.

    Although most synthetic combination thyroid products now use a ratio of four T4 to one T3, many people feel that their memory and thinking are clearer when they take a ratio of about three to one. More active metabolism probably keeps the blood ratio of T3 to T4 relatively high, with the liver consuming T4 at about the same rate that T3 is used.

    Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually helpful to take a few micorgrams per hour. Since it restores respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks.

    An effective way to use supplements is to take a combination T4-T3 dose, e.g., 40 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 once a day, and to use a few mcg of T3 at other times in the day. Keeping a 14-day chart of pulse rate and temperature allows you to see whether the dose is producing the desired response. If the figures aren't increasing at all after a few days, the dose can be increased, until a gradual daily increment can be seen, moving toward the goal at the rate of about 1/14 per day

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml
     
  19. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Dual action.. I like! thanks for this :D. This is quite the amazing supplement. Looks like I might start slow with this one due to the strength of it.

    Oh yes, all those things are definitely happening, you are spot on. I'm taking both pregnenalone and progesterone. Feeling like it's a bit too much, I'm going to skip the pregnenalone for now and begin microdosing T3. Also, got to work on getting more protein and calcium, these have been hard for me.

    I forgot all the gems in this article! Time for me to reread it. That last paragraph is especially helpful. Black and white instructions, these I can follow with confidence.
    Thank you kindly @mayweatherking
     
  20. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

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    Yeah, that video isn't the best example, but he's mentioned the potential issues with t4 many times; whereas you don't get that with t3. Sometimes t4 is fine, and sometimes it's not.
    But t3 is always safe (given the right amount), so when someone has something as bad as the constipation described I personally wouldn't risk it.
    If someone can't convert it, it ends being antithyroid, so in a case where you don't know what's going on, and you're already having problems, it's easier to troubleshoot by taking only t3 then you don't even have to worry about it.
     
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