Male bodybuilders 40% less likely to die of cancer

[Eberhardt]

Would that be enough?

ripped is pretty hard to do while healthy. some can get away with it. The problem is doing it safely of course. I dont think any specifics would be universal. Generally it seems like lots of sunshine and warm temprature helps. Inuitts for example dont lean out well even if they move south, so your specific body will involve it too. Personally I'd say only do it if it happens dont chase it. train and eat healthy while raising you metabolism. For some increasing calories work. Some bodybuilders actually do that. But to be specific after all. Get carbs with the high protein and rather cut on fat, if not your metabolism will suffer and the adrenocorticoid system will kick inn as the body gets a stressreaction from protein without carbs (the need usually increases with age) . Peat now needs 5 times the number of carbs to protein to not get stressrespons. If that happens cortisol also makes you fat. Better make the body feel safe so it doesnt need a lot of fatwrap. I personally (again) thinks really shredded is a cultural concept and not a natural taste, but you are you .

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Would that be enough?

Ray Peat says 90% of muscle building is diet and the other 10% using, and not abusing the muscles.

 

[Dr. B]

Ray Peat says 90% of muscle building is diet and the other 10% using, and not abusing the muscles.

how much protein do you think, 200g+? i used to get 210g daily before

ripped is pretty hard to do while healthy. some can get away with it. The problem is doing it safely of course. I dont think any specifics would be universal. Generally it seems like lots of sunshine and warm temprature helps. Inuitts for example dont lean out well even if they move south, so your specific body will involve it too. Personally I'd say only do it if it happens dont chase it. train and eat healthy while raising you metabolism. For some increasing calories work. Some bodybuilders actually do that. But to be specific after all. Get carbs with the high protein and rather cut on fat, if not your metabolism will suffer and the adrenocorticoid system will kick inn as the body gets a stressreaction from protein without carbs (the need usually increases with age) . Peat now needs 5 times the number of carbs to protein to not get stressrespons. If that happens cortisol also makes you fat. Better make the body feel safe so it doesnt need a lot of fatwrap. I personally (again) thinks really shredded is a cultural concept and not a natural taste, but you are you .

what bodyfat % do you consider ripper.
like what about 12%. thats lean, you have a good 6 pack, abs are defined and everything, waist is defined. stressful is only competition level bodybuilder lean right?
and who knows maybe with metabolism good, you can slowly become leaner as time passes on? the fat increases aromatase, and i wonder if metabolism is at its peak, with cortisol at its lowest, would you then be super lean as well? stress makes it harder to get leaner, cortisol bloats up the body.

Ray Peat says 90% of muscle building is diet and the other 10% using, and not abusing the muscles.

dont tigers and lions build muscle in captivity, without needing to hunt etc. so its mostly off the diet and stretching/etc they do daily right.

I asked Peat about how/why big cats tolerate so much phosphorus and little calcium. since he previously mentioned they tolerate PUFA due to a super high metabolic rate or something? curious what hell say but it may just be a similar answer of high metabolism allowing the poor phosphorus calcium ratio or maybe that the cats eat lots of glycine and animal organs/glands which balances something

and Rinse earlier today I thought of something I wanted to ask you if Peat had commented on at all, but it totally slipped my mind. maybe its related to having a metal retainer in the mouth but im unsure...

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

how much protein do you think, 200g+? i used to get 210g daily before



what bodyfat % do you consider ripper.
like what about 12%. thats lean, you have a good 6 pack, abs are defined and everything, waist is defined. stressful is only competition level bodybuilder lean right?
and who knows maybe with metabolism good, you can slowly become leaner as time passes on? the fat increases aromatase, and i wonder if metabolism is at its peak, with cortisol at its lowest, would you then be super lean as well? stress makes it harder to get leaner, cortisol bloats up the body.



dont tigers and lions build muscle in captivity, without needing to hunt etc. so its mostly off the diet and stretching/etc they do daily right.

I asked Peat about how/why big cats tolerate so much phosphorus and little calcium. since he previously mentioned they tolerate PUFA due to a super high metabolic rate or something? curious what hell say but it may just be a similar answer of high metabolism allowing the poor phosphorus calcium ratio or maybe that the cats eat lots of glycine and animal organs/glands which balances something

and Rinse earlier today I thought of something I wanted to ask you if Peat had commented on at all, but it totally slipped my mind. maybe its related to having a metal retainer in the mouth but im unsure...

I would like to know about the metal retainer too! Let me know if you find out anything. Ray says on the average 80 to 120 grams of protein if you are sedentary and the upper end of that if you are elderly. 200+ if you are active or a body builder.

 

[Dr. B]

I would like to know about the metal retainer too! Let me know if you find out anything. Ray says on the average 80 to 120 grams of protein if you are sedentary and the upper end of that if you are elderly. 200+ if you are active or a body builder.

i think Ray himself gets 150g a day right. think quotes were posted here.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

i think Ray himself gets 150g a day right. think quotes were posted here.

Yes you are right!

"I've always been very sedentary, but I have usually had close to 150 grams daily. The traditional meat eaters didn't waste anything,ate all the skin, ears, tails, snouts, feet,tendons, lungs, intestines, marrow, blood, brains, gonads and other glands, picked the ligaments off the bones, so they had a much better balance of amino acids. (Small town restaurants in Mexico, China, etc., still serve those.) Muscle meats are essentially a refined food." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"For intense exercise, it's about a gram per pound of body weight." -Ray Peat

 

[Dr. B]

"For intense exercise, it's about a gram per pound of body weight." -Ray Peat

thats interesting, that's similar to the bodybuilder dosages. they always say 1g per pound bodyweight or more. I found that to work the best, and was needed, especially on lower calories and while weightlifting. actually I got 1.2grams protein per pound bodyweight. i didnt notice further benefits from bumping up to 1.5g per pound, and I did start to lose some muscle or strength if I dropped down to 1 gram protein per pound. the 1.2g, 1.25g per pound was perfect for me. although my carbs were low, only like 130g a day, with weekly cheats. carbs are supposed to spare protein. and maybe the keto acids in them are enough to build muscle off fruits alone. dont gorillas get very muscular off banannas.

 

[Dr. B]

Yes you are right!

"I've always been very sedentary, but I have usually had close to 150 grams daily. The traditional meat eaters didn't waste anything,ate all the skin, ears, tails, snouts, feet,tendons, lungs, intestines, marrow, blood, brains, gonads and other glands, picked the ligaments off the bones, so they had a much better balance of amino acids. (Small town restaurants in Mexico, China, etc., still serve those.) Muscle meats are essentially a refined food." -Ray Peat

you can do this, its tough to eat all those without supplementing ancestral supplements freeze dried organ and gland products.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

you can do this, its tough to eat all those without supplementing ancestral supplements freeze dried organ and gland products.

Not for me. I easily get 80 to 120+ with milk, seafood, pork rinds, bone broth, liver, cheese and my condensed milk ice cream. I don't suppliment gelatin.

 

[Dr. B]

Not for me. I easily get 80 to 120+ with milk, seafood, pork rinds, bone broth, liver, cheese and my condensed milk ice cream. I don't suppliment gelatin.

i meant eating the testes, intestines, tripe, trachea, snout, ears. all those beef organs. they probably would improve functioning of your own organs.
although, I asked Peat about the chinese practice of consuming tiger penis for sexual health/aphrodosiac etc. Ray said some animal tissues contain chalones, which cross to other species, and chalones are growth inhibiting substances. so in some cases consuming that animal organ can actually inhibit growth of your own corresponding tissue! important to know...
im awaiting him to answer my tiger/liger/lion question...
the male lion has genes which are meant to make the lion offspring as big and powerful as possible...
female lions have growth inhibiting substances/genes which limit the growth of the lion...
female tigers don't have those growth inhibiting substances, but male tigers don't have the super growth substances/genes of the male lion.
this is why the liger, a male lion and female tiger combination, is the largest big cat species, even larger than tigers, lions, or male tigers with female lions.
the tigon, a male tiger and female lion combination, is small, it's like the size of a regular lion... because the female lion inhibits the growth potential of the tigon baby
so I asked Ray, what about then eating lion penis, is that the solution, and what the Chinese people should actually be eating instead of tiger penis?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

i meant eating the testes, intestines, tripe, trachea, snout, ears. all those beef organs. they probably would improve functioning of your own organs.
although, I asked Peat about the chinese practice of consuming tiger penis for sexual health/aphrodosiac etc. Ray said some animal tissues contain chalones, which cross to other species, and chalones are growth inhibiting substances. so in some cases consuming that animal organ can actually inhibit growth of your own corresponding tissue! important to know...
im awaiting him to answer my tiger/liger/lion question...
the male lion has genes which are meant to make the lion offspring as big and powerful as possible...
female lions have growth inhibiting substances/genes which limit the growth of the lion...
female tigers don't have those growth inhibiting substances, but male tigers don't have the super growth substances/genes of the male lion.
this is why the liger, a male lion and female tiger combination, is the largest big cat species, even larger than tigers, lions, or male tigers with female lions.
the tigon, a male tiger and female lion combination, is small, it's like the size of a regular lion... because the female lion inhibits the growth potential of the tigon baby
so I asked Ray, what about then eating lion penis, is that the solution, and what the Chinese people should actually be eating instead of tiger penis?

You always come up with the most interesting stuff!

 

[BearWithMe]

Ray Peat says 90% of muscle building is diet and the other 10% using, and not abusing the muscles.

The problem with all that is that RP is not and never was ripped.

I still think he is correct in pretty much everything he says, and that Peating is the best way to get ripped, but it is also obvious that one must make some adjustments to it to achieve muscular physique

 

[BearWithMe]

ripped is pretty hard to do while healthy. some can get away with it. The problem is doing it safely of course. I dont think any specifics would be universal. Generally it seems like lots of sunshine and warm temprature helps. Inuitts for example dont lean out well even if they move south, so your specific body will involve it too. Personally I'd say only do it if it happens dont chase it. train and eat healthy while raising you metabolism. For some increasing calories work. Some bodybuilders actually do that. But to be specific after all. Get carbs with the high protein and rather cut on fat, if not your metabolism will suffer and the adrenocorticoid system will kick inn as the body gets a stressreaction from protein without carbs (the need usually increases with age) . Peat now needs 5 times the number of carbs to protein to not get stressrespons. If that happens cortisol also makes you fat. Better make the body feel safe so it doesnt need a lot of fatwrap. I personally (again) thinks really shredded is a cultural concept and not a natural taste, but you are you .

This is awesome post with many super-interesting and valuable insights, but I disagree with the premise that being healthy and being ripped somehow doesn't go hand in hand.

Being ripped man is almost universally considered beautiful and attractive for both women and men all over the world. We have developed very strong conscious and subconscious aversion to unhealthy traits in our peers, why would this be the exception?

It is not cultural thing either, because ripped men were admired by every culture going back to Neanderthals and further.

 

[Eberhardt]

This is awesome post with many super-interesting and valuable insights, but I disagree with the premise that being healthy and being ripped somehow doesn't go hand in hand.

Being ripped man is almost universally considered beautiful and attractive for both women and men all over the world. We have developed very strong conscious and subconscious aversion to unhealthy traits in our peers, why would this be the exception?

It is not cultural thing either, because ripped men were admired by every culture going back to Neanderthals and further.

Thanks. Maybe like @Mr.Bollox asked it depends on the content of the word ripped. I am thinking below 10 . 10 is lean and Ive been 10% just last year by accident. But again it dependa on your metabolic makeup. Some have itbeasiernto achieve that. Ibhave a friend who never tried leaning but naturallybcouldnt get rid of his 8pack until in his 40s. So maybe that does arguing against the question of lean being seen as positive all around the world . There has been lots of research into this and there is a great variety to this. It comes and goes with some periods of time - think renesance downright chubby is considered ideal. Maybe also think Vinca culture from the paleolithic where all figurines more or less as obese. And neanderthals have left no written records and we have no figurative art left from them so thats a complete unknown. But Id assume they would prefer a bit higher as ideal as the genetic traces and analyzis show their genes gives a propensity for bwing on the chubby side, though more muscular it seems. Makes sense since they were well adapted to cold. I personally know one elderly woman who in her youth was what is now obviously model material. Tall blond slim long legs high cheekbones etc. She was bullied by even her family for being ugly because she was thin amd called a goat . Standards change

 

[BearWithMe]

Thanks. Maybe like @Mr.Bollox asked it depends on the content of the word ripped. I am thinking below 10 . 10 is lean and Ive been 10% just last year by accident. But again it dependa on your metabolic makeup. Some have itbeasiernto achieve that. Ibhave a friend who never tried leaning but naturallybcouldnt get rid of his 8pack until in his 40s. So maybe that does arguing against the question of lean being seen as positive all around the world . There has been lots of research into this and there is a great variety to this. It comes and goes with some periods of time - think renesance downright chubby is considered ideal. Maybe also think Vinca culture from the paleolithic where all figurines more or less as obese. And neanderthals have left no written records and we have no figurative art left from them so thats a complete unknown. But Id assume they would prefer a bit higher as ideal as the genetic traces and analyzis show their genes gives a propensity for bwing on the chubby side, though more muscular it seems. Makes sense since they were well adapted to cold. I personally know one elderly woman who in her youth was what is now obviously model material. Tall blond slim long legs high cheekbones etc. She was bullied by even her family for being ugly because she was thin amd called a goat . Standards change

ripped =/= lean
ripped = lean AND very muscular, big
being just lean as a man is the least attractive of all the options

Also, please notice I'm talking specifically about men. That's the thing. Muscular men were considered attractive even at times when chubby women were the ideal of beauty. There was not a period of time where muscular men were not considered attractive

 

[Dr. B]

ripped =/= lean
ripped = lean AND very muscular, big
being just lean as a man is the least attractive of all the options

Also, please notice I'm talking specifically about men. That's the thing. Muscular men were considered attractive even at times when chubby women were the ideal of beauty. There was not a period of time where muscular men were not considered attractive

apparently some tribal cultures liked fat men because it was associated with wealth and abundance etc.
do you think being just lean is less attractive than being skinny fat or fat? why?

 

[Eberhardt]

apparently some tribal cultures liked fat men because it was associated with wealth and abundance etc.
do you think being just lean is less attractive than being skinny fat or fat? why?

I was going to mention that. I k ow for a facy that 20 years ago this attitude was the norm in India. People was in awe of big fat men. And @Mr.Bollox I agree that muscles seem a bit more universal then lean but nah. I know when my greatgrandfather was a kid the womem dreaded dating the workmem on the railroad because of their "ugly, knotted muscular backs", and the workers were sometimes ashamed of it. On the leanness question. I was specifically talking about ripped as it is usually understood in bodybuilding and in europe though I thought the us too. Ripped being then 5%ish. Musclemass is more about being jacked. Its all lingo anyway so if we stick to just plain lean(not fat) I am a bit more in agreement but the examples above show it to be variable at best. For fun: some southamerican and pacific culture where women have more status, the men are preferred small and lanky and preferably with a small penis. The big men have problems getting married

 

[Dr. B]

I was going to mention that. I k ow for a facy that 20 years ago this attitude was the norm in India. People was in awe of big fat men. And @Mr.Bollox I agree that muscles seem a bit more universal then lean but nah. I know when my greatgrandfather was a kid the womem dreaded dating the workmem on the railroad because of their "ugly, knotted muscular backs", and the workers were sometimes ashamed of it. On the leanness question. I was specifically talking about ripped as it is usually understood in bodybuilding and in europe though I thought the us too. Ripped being then 5%ish. Musclemass is more about being jacked. Its all lingo anyway so if we stick to just plain lean(not fat) I am a bit more in agreement but the examples above show it to be variable at best. For fun: some southamerican and pacific culture where women have more status, the men are preferred small and lanky and preferably with a small penis. The big men have problems getting married

interesting why do they prefer men small and lanky with a small penis?

 

[PxD]

apparently some tribal cultures liked fat men because it was associated with wealth and abundance etc.
do you think being just lean is less attractive than being skinny fat or fat? why?

In the part of Africa where I grew up, the local tribe/nation regard fat men as attractive because only the rich can eat enough to get fat. Obesity plus a S-class Mercedes Benz is the absolute pinnacle of status, although recently the fatness thing has been losing its traditional appeal as Western mass media culture and its attendant beauty standards have been permeating.

As far as the OP is concerned, strength training is not exhausting the way anaerobic cardio exercise is. I've lifted for many years and dabbled in Olympic weightlifting too. Training for strength involves lower reps and longer rest breaks, with heavier weights. Serious Oly lifters spend 2-3 hours on a training session, and they do this 5 or 6 days a week. This is nothing like beating yourself to sh*t in a 45 minute cycling spin class. You should have more energy and feel more alert after a good weightlifting session than before it. I think this is very much in line with the Peatian philosophy of engaging in concentric exercise, not going to exhaustion, avoiding lactic acid buildup, and using your muscles rather than abusing them.

Edit: re: bodybuilders, I've known a couple of fitness models who competed at a high level and what they do involves a lot more than just lifting weights for strength. Strength is a secondary goal; hypertrophy is the primary goal. They go for high reps to get that 'pump' and do some unhealthy things with diet and (lots of) drugs to get that shredded, shrink-wrapped skin look that you see on the cover of Men's Health. I remember seeing Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler in person in 2012, from a very close distance. They looked slow and stiff and their breathing appeared visibly labored, even when sitting down.