low estrogen + amenorrhea

Jennifer

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Lindsay said:
I think that the psychological importance of understanding an ED IS very important (it's part of the process of realizing the route cause), but it's not how to control it, IMO. I can completely throw myself back into a bad place by not taking my thyroid or progesterone (these have really really helped me, I cannot tell you how much), isolating myself and commiserating alone about emotional moments in my life. That would put me in a bad place for sure. Doing that with a good girlfriend - well that would be different, because I can talk through it with her (and in fact I've done this before with my best friend and actually learned that she had also suffered from Anorexia/bulimia). I tend to shy away from the psychology of things because I grew up in a household constantly focused on psychology of everything - it was always, well this person is that way because of this that and the other thing. This is true, but biology and circumstances effects psychology more than people tend to realize. But I say that now completely understanding that I'm in a different place now than I was as a teenager - it could have been that nothing would have helped me at that point, I don't know.

I went to a psychologist who specialized in Eating disorders when I was 15 or 16 - my parents made me. I think it can be helpful, but you really have to be in a strong place and want to get better. People kept telling me I had to eat and get over the disorder, without ever explaining why (when the body is in survival mode, it's important to explain that it's not necessary to be in that mode - fight or flight is a very real part of it). And my fear about psychologists is that most of them will look at you and say you need to be on an antidepressant (mine prescribed me paxil and I quit taking it because it made me manic). I get the feeling that treatment centers are just going to be loaded with drugs to take and force-feeding.

Personally, I think the hump to get over is the stress - get the body out of stress and the mind can better process the psychological issues. In fact, for me, that's pretty much when I put the ED in the past. I knew all along its root cause, but it never helped me get past it. Because being able to think rationally about it is very important. For years it had been a spiritual and emotional struggle and the fact that I felt I needed to understand it and get over it stressed me out - it wasn't until I felt I needed to take care of my body that I was able to see other things fall into place. Also, the hormonal imbalance caused by an Eating disorder is really really important to consider - I would regularly get into fights with my spouse and good friends over stupid little things because of anxiety (again, stress). Taking progesterone was actually the first big step for me, because I was so deficient - I could actually feel the hormonal change in my body. Little things that used to cause me to go crazy mad just no longer mattered to me.
Yes, I agree it's not just about the mind and I fully support your experience and what helped/helps you to overcome your disorder. This is just my personal experience and take on it and I'm in no way trying to prove my case or disprove yours, okay? :) But no thyroid or progesterone in the world was going to help me get over the powerlessness I felt well into adulthood due to what was stolen from me as a child.

All the emotional baggage I've dumped has been because of me, not supplements I've taken. I give myself full credit for digging painfully deep and having the courage to do so. With that, I gained my power back. I never would of felt a sense of power if I had put all my eggs in the pill and metabolic disorder basket. I wasn't sick and had a perfectly normal metabolism before the sexual abuse. I had a voice, was happy and not at all the perfectionist trying to "make up for her past sin." I know for me, the sexual abuse set me up for a "need to control" eating disorder that created a messed up hormonal system.

Now, that's not to say that I think a phycologist will help or not. To be honest, I feel some, if not many of them though well intentioned, are "trained" in helping us get better, but don't actually have personal experience to be able to relate to how we feel. They can tell us how we should feel, the steps to take in order to feel better, but I honestly have made the most progress by talking with other women who have shared the same experience as I have. Women who have been molested by a female like I was. They understand how that adds a whole other layer of confusion and pain to an already cruel experience.

The biggest thing I realized is that I should not feel bad for feeling bad. I shouldn't judge myself for being frustrated, angry, sad, lonely, confused ect. I shouldn't try to force myself to get happy. There is nothing wrong with me if I feel all these negative emotions. I don't think of it as an excess of estrogen, but as being human with human emotions, the highs and lows that illuminate each other. For me, when I've hit my lowest point emotionally, that's where I find myself and my greatest resolve. I get to the heart of the matter and I find my feelings have complete validity, not just a chemical component.

By the way, I love your new avatar picture. That's one killer hat! :)
 

Jennifer

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lindsay said:
Jennifer said:
I had an eating disorder develop when I was 12. Looking back, that's around the time I was really starting to develop physically and being faced with my own sexuality. Having been sexually abused as a little girl, I was terrified with the attention from boys I was receiving and I started controlling my food in order to shrink my breasts ect. so they wouldn't notice me. I know this may sound crazy, but I wanted to become invisible. So past trauma was the motivating factor and focusing on my food was a way for me to gain control when I felt that same powerlessness I felt when I was being molested.

People told me of the repercussions of becoming too thin and I heard their words, but it never registered for me at the time, though that's part of the reason why I'm highly insecure/fearful about being small now. Anyhow, had someone been able to help me understand why I was doing what I was doing, that would of helped me to stop. Of course, I never told anyone about the sexual abuse till I was in my late 20's after I fractured. I was too ashamed. And that's the thing. Shame. No one should feel ashamed for being human and adopting ways of coping. We're perfectly imperfect and it's okay, but once you get yourself into a pickle, there's this heightened sense of shame. We already feel shame for how we choose to cope and to have others point out what we already know, even though it's out of love and concern, just adds more salt to the wounds. It's a hard cycle for both the sufferer and their loved ones.

I'm of course worried for your daughter's health "diet wise," Diane, but I'm actually even more concerned for her feelings/emotions/heart, if that makes sense? I would think that what she went through with the lymphoma must of terrified her and that has lasting impact. Was she/is she terrified of feeling that powerlessness she may of felt during chemo that she took to food as a way of gaining control, no matter how illogical it may seem to others who haven't been through what she has? Sorry, I could be way off here, but I think past experiences really do affect our biology. If she is controlling her food due to her past trauma, I wonder if getting her to change her perspective would help. That eating is empowering her by creating a healthy and powerful body?

I love how open you are about your history and health issues Jennifer! It's very encouraging and I'm amazed at the progress you've made!! Even when we have different vantage points, it's good to see so many takes on the eating disorder spectrum. Thank you for sharing :)
Thank you, Lindsay. I feel the same way about you. :) I feel very encouraged and see another side of myself I may not of recognized before had people not been so open with their experiences. I'm always excited to see these kinds of exchanges on the forum. Very brave and inspiring!
 

lindsay

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Jennifer said:
Yes, I agree it's not just about the mind and I fully support your experience and what helped/helps you to overcome your disorder. This is just my personal experience and take on it and I'm in no way trying to prove my case or disprove yours, okay? :) But no thyroid or progesterone in the world was going to help me get over the powerlessness I felt well into adulthood due to what was stolen from me as a child.

All the emotional baggage I've dumped has been because of me, not supplements I've taken. I give myself full credit for digging painfully deep and having the courage to do so. With that, I gained my power back. I never would of felt a sense of power if I had put all my eggs in the pill and metabolic disorder basket. I wasn't sick and had a perfectly normal metabolism before the sexual abuse. I had a voice, was happy and not at all the perfectionist trying to "make up for her past sin." I know for me, the sexual abuse set me up for a "need to control" eating disorder that created a messed up hormonal system.

Now, that's not to say that I think a phycologist will help or not. To be honest, I feel some, if not many of them though well intentioned, are "trained" in helping us get better, but don't actually have personal experience to be able to relate to how we feel. They can tell us how we should feel, the steps to take in order to feel better, but I honestly have made the most progress by talking with other women who have shared the same experience as I have. Women who have been molested by a female like I was. They understand how that adds a whole other layer of confusion and pain to an already cruel experience.

The biggest thing I realized is that I should not feel bad for feeling bad. I shouldn't judge myself for being frustrated, angry, sad, lonely, confused ect. I shouldn't try to force myself to get happy. There is nothing wrong with me if I feel all these negative emotions. I don't think of it as an excess of estrogen, but as being human with human emotions, the highs and lows that illuminate each other. For me, when I've hit my lowest point emotionally, that's where I find myself and my greatest resolve. I get to the heart of the matter and I find my feelings have complete validity, not just a chemical component.

By the way, I love your new avatar picture. That's one killer hat! :)

I wasn't taking it as a prove/disprove - no no! Everybody comes to understand in their own way - for me, I'd rather not go to a psychologist again because I only ever did it for people who wanted me to, not because it was my choice (ha! the control thing). I completely understand we have very different backgrounds - I've never been through molestation. And I'm very sorry that you've had to go through that - but thankful you were able to connect to other women who could help you. And that you had the strength to keep fighting. I totally agree with you that having other people to talk to is very important - I had too much shame to talk to my husband much about it, but I can talk to my best girl friends about anything and that is so good to have (I just wish they didn't live so far away!)

I think with any health or spiritual endeavor, truly letting yourself be "forgiven" is very important. I could sit here and hate myself for my eating disorder, regret what I've done to myself or realize that the past is behind me and there's no use feeling guilty about it because that won't help. I feel that way about a lot of my mistakes. Even if there was a reason they happened, I like to learn from it and move on. But I say that with a grain of salt because it's taken me 15 years to get to the point where I don't harbor anger towards those who've hurt me or abandoned me! I think the biggest part of moving on is being empathetic. With yourself and towards others.

I think your story truly illustrates the, "there is a time for everything" (actually one of my favorite bible verses) and I agree that it's worthwhile to embrace the dark times with the good times. You cannot understand the one without the other actually. I've definitely felt different levels of those dark times - the comment I made about progesterone/estrogen was that for me, in those dark times, I couldn't even control my outlashes, emotions and crying. With loved ones or in the doctors' office :) I think that's part of the menopause thing though - the extremes. I've been through many other dark places in my life where I could pick myself up with resolve, but the last few years were much harder and I've had to learn to help myself the best way I know how. It was a depression like none other I've ever felt. My feelings might have had validity (as any human's), but I never believe in taking them out on others and I cannot believe that I was that out-of-control that I would just cry and yell at people I loved. That's why I've said I don't like to dwell on certain emotions any longer.

p.s. thanks! the hat is from when I lived in Russia. so warm.
 

Jennifer

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lindsay said:
I wasn't taking it as a prove/disprove - no no! Everybody comes to understand in their own way - for me, I'd rather not go to a psychologist again because I only ever did it for people who wanted me to, not because it was my choice (ha! the control thing). I completely understand we have very different backgrounds - I've never been through molestation. And I'm very sorry that you've had to go through that - but thankful you were able to connect to other women who could help you. And that you had the strength to keep fighting. I totally agree with you that having other people to talk to is very important - I had too much shame to talk to my husband much about it, but I can talk to my best girl friends about anything and that is so good to have (I just wish they didn't live so far away!)

I think with any health or spiritual endeavor, truly letting yourself be "forgiven" is very important. I could sit here and hate myself for my eating disorder, regret what I've done to myself or realize that the past is behind me and there's no use feeling guilty about it because that won't help. I feel that way about a lot of my mistakes. Even if there was a reason they happened, I like to learn from it and move on. But I say that with a grain of salt because it's taken me 15 years to get to the point where I don't harbor anger towards those who've hurt me or abandoned me! I think the biggest part of moving on is being empathetic. With yourself and towards others.
Thank you for the kind words, Lindsay. :) I'm actually pretty much over what happened to me, minus a few residual ticks. I completely agree with what you said in the second paragraph. I honestly don't harbor any ill feelings towards the one who molested me, it's more like disgust at the actual experience and even that I've basically moved on from. Now it's just the coping habits I developed that I've had to work hard at overcoming that trip me up every now and then. For example, my knee jerk reaction to any form of affection was always to shut down and pull away, but that's not my true nature because I'm a very passionate and affectionate person and so I have to remind myself to not go to that default mechanism.

Lindsay said:
I think your story truly illustrates the, "there is a time for everything" (actually one of my favorite bible verses) and I agree that it's worthwhile to embrace the dark times with the good times. You cannot understand the one without the other actually. I've definitely felt different levels of those dark times - the comment I made about progesterone/estrogen was that for me, in those dark times, I couldn't even control my outlashes, emotions and crying. With loved ones or in the doctors' office :) I think that's part of the menopause thing though - the extremes. I've been through many other dark places in my life where I could pick myself up with resolve, but the last few years were much harder and I've had to learn to help myself the best way I know how. It was a depression like none other I've ever felt. My feelings might have had validity (as any human's), but I never believe in taking them out on others and I cannot believe that I was that out-of-control that I would just cry and yell at people I loved. That's why I've said I don't like to dwell on certain emotions any longer.
Your emotions from the last few years make me think of my mom. She tends to express her feelings very vocally (fiery), but has been this way her whole life. I tend to shut down, keep quiet and withdraw from people altogether as to not offend/hurt them, but of course withdrawing from the world isn't so healthy either. The way I see it, we weren't born with the map to life and so we navigate through it the best way we know how at any given moment. Sometimes those moments result in less than stellar emotions/actions that completely hurt and offend the ones we love and hopefully they carry that same forgiveness for us that we carry for them and that they can remember all the good that we've done that outweigh those not so perfect moments. I mean, who hasn't completely messed up once in their life, right? From the way you've talked on here and peatarian, it sounds like you have a good hubby who is there for you through the highs and lows. :)
 
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HDD said:
Thank you for sharing this, Lindsay. My daughter is currently dealing with an eating disorder that she thinks started when she was 19 or 20 after chemotherapy treatment for lymphoma. She is 26 now and a friend (psychology student) referred her to a psychologist who did an evaluation. The psychologist has recommended a full time treatment center. This has been overwhelming for her. Her shame in others finding out is such a huge stress. The high cost of treatment and the interruption of her life being the other major stressors.

I don't know if the treatment would be beneficial. My thoughts are if she is instructed on eating enough and is willing that this alone would be beneficial. It is $7,000 out of pocket and she will have to borrow $ to do this. She is already in debt from an emergency room visit for a kidney stone last year. Her desire was to go to school this year which will be another debt and would have to wait until she is done with treatment. Treatment is 7 days a week for one, possibly two months.

I have not talked to her about her ED being connected to low thyroid. I sent her Progest-e when she missed a period around the time of her kidney stone but she has not used it. I have talked to her about how not eating enough can affect her skin, hair, and ability to have children, etc. It s a very touchy situation and very emotionally charged. Her sister and friends think she needs the treatment and I agree if she is unable to change on her own.

I suppose my hope is that she would read your story and others on the forum and it would help her to understand why. And somehow she would be able to overcome this without the treatment center.
I've had a chance to work with people who are told they eat too little or too much. My sense is, solely from reading Peat, that the mind/body is instinctively very protective and will want what it wants, given its structure and energy at the time. Calling it an "eating disorder" as psychologists must do, for otherwise they cannot justify an enormous fee, is really very hurtful, and I understand and agree that your daughter should be sensitive and emotionally charged about that.

As the mind/body structure and energy inevitably changes over time, it just continues to naturally want what it wants. Maybe some sunlight or incandescent light, maybe the warmth of a pet, maybe some carbonated mineral water, maybe a demitasse of coffee or tea with milk and sugar. Maybe orange juice, or coconut oil rubbed on the lips. It just depends on what she wants, day by day.

Although I am obligated to caution you to ask your physician for advice, Peat's methods do not require any considerable expense.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to chat with her. I don't charge for my time.

A caveat is, it may be hard to help remotely, compared to in person. But I'd still like to try.
 

Jennifer

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visionofstrength said:
I've had a chance to work with people who are told they eat too little or too much. My sense is, solely from reading Peat, that the mind/body is instinctively very protective and will want what it wants, given its structure and energy at the time. Calling it an "eating disorder" as psychologists must do, for otherwise they cannot justify an enormous fee, is really very hurtful, and I understand and agree that your daughter should be sensitive and emotionally charged about that.
WOW! At a complete loss for words on this.
 
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purelaur

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Haven't posted in a while. Been keeping busy back at school. But here's an update:

I just can't knock these symptoms. I've been working with my endocrinologist but nothing is helping. I actually think my symptoms have gotten worse since I started peating which coincided with my break from veganism

I feel lightheaded and floaty pretty much all the time. This is troubling because I am a senior in college and I have to be present for a lot of important things and interact with people and I feel like I probably look and act like I am on drugs.
I can't sleep. I feel tired all the time, but I cannot fall asleep nor stay asleep. I probably get 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep a night.
I go from 0-60 in terms of hunger and blood sugar. Full, completely satisfied to rapid onset of weakness and fatigue if I don't eat something immediately.
I feel more "aware" of my heartbeat. Normal resting bp is 55-60, but I take 5mcg cytomel in the morning and my heart rate elevates to around 70 then tapers in the afternoon. I just started on cytomel a few weeks ago and I'm not sure just T3 is right for me, but I have another appt with my endo soon.
Ringing in ears.
Cold hands and feet, blurred vision.
Lack of menses.

I've been trying to tackle this with rest and food but I don't think that's the answer. The only dietary changes I have made have been reintroducing dairy and meat back and I also think that is when I started feeling worse. I don't know what's wrong with me. It makes me paranoid to go out and interact with other people because I honestly feel like I might drop dead (slight exaggeration but I just feel VERY POORLY)

I have a copy of my recent blood work that I will post once I figure out how to get it on one page. My liver enzymes have been high for a while... I had an ultrasound and nothing came of it but I'm not sure if its worth mentioning.
 

tara

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purelaur said:
I go from 0-60 in terms of hunger and blood sugar. Full, completely satisfied to rapid onset of weakness and fatigue if I don't eat something immediately.
I recognise this. In the past, I've gone from feeling full to feeling fine for a while, and then suddenly I'm TOO HUNGRY and if I don't get food NOW i'd be a weak, quivering, irrational wreck in a few minutes. Less than 2 hrs after a meal where I'd filled my stomach.
I can still get the hangry symptoms sometimes, but seldom get to that place of sudden and severe depletion lately. I think the switch to more sugar and less starch, and more carbs overall, spread through the day but especially in the morning (with protein from breakfast and lunch), have helped. And always having sugar at hand so I can eat quickly and don't have to get desperate.
 

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