First time using progesterone, high androgens

[Skeletonkey]

Hello,
This is my first time posting on the forum but I've been reading the posts here for quite some time- probably a year or so. I was introduced to ray peats work probably 2.5 years ago through a Morley Robbins article in the Weston A. Price journal one month. That began a deep dive on cycle tracking, fertility, my irregular periods that were usually accompanied by intense cyclic migraines and luteal phase spotting, 16 day luteal phase estimated. Previously in my early 20s I had pretty severe cystic acne (I'm 28) that went away when I stopped drinking milk (it was cheap not high quality milk). Currently my husband and I go through about 3 gallons of A2 raw milk a week and it does not trigger any cystic acne. Although I still struggle with my skin texture and dry-oily, red bumps, ect.
My current diet is usually eggs with sourdough and OJ or oatmeal with honey, fruit and a raw egg yolk. Sometimes I do eggs and potatoes if I have time. I drink coffee 1-2 cups depending on the day. Nothing after 1pm though. Lunch is usually leftover dinner or meal prepped meatballs with liver and either rice, potatoes, or squash. I snack on gelatin gummies made with fruit juice throughout the day, sometimes beef jerky and also fruit- oranges, bananas, pears, ect. Dinner I typically make a soup, stew, meatloaf, rice bowl w/ protein or sometimes tacos or roasted chicken with cooked veg. I also drink lots of milk, cottage cheese and ice cream for desert.
I've been focusing on getting around 2000-2200 calories a day. Before I was barely hitting 1400. I have noticed a difference in my immunity and a little bit more energy. But my hormones are still whack. I know this takes time.
My last hormone panel was through everlywell and it showed high DHEA, normal T, low progesterone and slightly high estradiol. My progesterone to estrogen ratio was really low. I also had low morning cortisol (I worked night shift for 6 years).
I did a nutritiongenome panel while I was vegan a few years ago and it made me realizy body needed meat and I had become b vitamin deficient anemic. The gene profile also told me that I am likely to have trouble converting beta carotene to A, and trouble with B6, magnesium and vitamin D. Vitamin D triggers my cystic acne big time, so I don't take it or I would be miserable. It said that my
body is likely to have difficultly getting rid of estrogen and I am likely to have a higher fibrin level as well as difficulty clearing adrenaline. It recommended weight lifting to clear adrenaline, which I haven't found time for.
Okay so my last cycle, I supplemented calcium D glucarate and progesterone oil topically for about 14 days, my period had not come when I expected it so I stopped the progesterone oil but continued with the calcium d glucarate. During my luteal phase I did feel irritable, and had 1 cystic pimple, but also noticed an increase in hair growth around my chin and upper lip. I am concerned that the progesterone is just converting into androgens in my body...I stopped all supplements and I started spotting until my period came.

currently I take-
nattokinase/serrapetase blend on empty stomach for the fibrin
Magnesium- mega mag by trace minerals
B Complex by ingennus
Sulphurophane supplement (sometimes)
Medical mushrooms- reishi and Chaga
Vitamin E
Spore based probiotic (sometimes)
Whole food vitamin C
Quercetin w/ bromelain for allergies on occasion.

any advice on blood work to get? Supps to try? Or nutrition advice? Has anyone had luck with weight lifting improving their hormones?

thanks! And sorry this was so lengthy.

 

[Michael Mohn]

Hello,
This is my first time posting on the forum but I've been reading the posts here for quite some time- probably a year or so. I was introduced to ray peats work probably 2.5 years ago through a Morley Robbins article in the Weston A. Price journal one month. That began a deep dive on cycle tracking, fertility, my irregular periods that were usually accompanied by intense cyclic migraines and luteal phase spotting, 16 day luteal phase estimated. Previously in my early 20s I had pretty severe cystic acne (I'm 28) that went away when I stopped drinking milk (it was cheap not high quality milk). Currently my husband and I go through about 3 gallons of A2 raw milk a week and it does not trigger any cystic acne. Although I still struggle with my skin texture and dry-oily, red bumps, ect.
My current diet is usually eggs with sourdough and OJ or oatmeal with honey, fruit and a raw egg yolk. Sometimes I do eggs and potatoes if I have time. I drink coffee 1-2 cups depending on the day. Nothing after 1pm though. Lunch is usually leftover dinner or meal prepped meatballs with liver and either rice, potatoes, or squash. I snack on gelatin gummies made with fruit juice throughout the day, sometimes beef jerky and also fruit- oranges, bananas, pears, ect. Dinner I typically make a soup, stew, meatloaf, rice bowl w/ protein or sometimes tacos or roasted chicken with cooked veg. I also drink lots of milk, cottage cheese and ice cream for desert.
I've been focusing on getting around 2000-2200 calories a day. Before I was barely hitting 1400. I have noticed a difference in my immunity and a little bit more energy. But my hormones are still whack. I know this takes time.
My last hormone panel was through everlywell and it showed high DHEA, normal T, low progesterone and slightly high estradiol. My progesterone to estrogen ratio was really low. I also had low morning cortisol (I worked night shift for 6 years).
I did a nutritiongenome panel while I was vegan a few years ago and it made me realizy body needed meat and I had become b vitamin deficient anemic. The gene profile also told me that I am likely to have trouble converting beta carotene to A, and trouble with B6, magnesium and vitamin D. Vitamin D triggers my cystic acne big time, so I don't take it or I would be miserable. It said that my
body is likely to have difficultly getting rid of estrogen and I am likely to have a higher fibrin level as well as difficulty clearing adrenaline. It recommended weight lifting to clear adrenaline, which I haven't found time for.
Okay so my last cycle, I supplemented calcium D glucarate and progesterone oil topically for about 14 days, my period had not come when I expected it so I stopped the progesterone oil but continued with the calcium d glucarate. During my luteal phase I did feel irritable, and had 1 cystic pimple, but also noticed an increase in hair growth around my chin and upper lip. I am concerned that the progesterone is just converting into androgens in my body...I stopped all supplements and I started spotting until my period came.

currently I take-
nattokinase/serrapetase blend on empty stomach for the fibrin
Magnesium- mega mag by trace minerals
B Complex by ingennus
Sulphurophane supplement (sometimes)
Medical mushrooms- reishi and Chaga
Vitamin E
Spore based probiotic (sometimes)
Whole food vitamin C
Quercetin w/ bromelain for allergies on occasion.

any advice on blood work to get? Supps to try? Or nutrition advice? Has anyone had luck with weight lifting improving their hormones?

thanks! And sorry this was so lengthy.

Welcome and good intro!

My mom had hirsutism (facial hair in women) and she wasn't high progesterone at all, high estrogen and serotonin definitely. One theory is that in low progesterone women dht is increased as a compensation to balance estrogen but facial hair is a side effect. Another theory is that progesterone supplementation will liberate estrogen from tissue which can overburden the liver and trigger your symptoms.

Peat recommends some thyroid when starting progesterone. Carrot salad, boiled wheat/oat bran, mushrooms can help the excretion of estrogen. Take progesterone only in the luteal phase. What kind of oil is the progesterone in?

Your diet looks good, protein and sugar are important to feed your liver to do the job. Vitamin E, B and magnesium can be helpful the rest of your supps looks sketchy at best, if they haven't done the promised miracle yet then better ditch them. Aspirin, Methylen blue, cyproheptadin are worth having around.

 

[Skeletonkey]

Welcome and good intro!

My mom had hirsutism (facial hair in women) and she wasn't high progesterone at all, high estrogen and serotonin definitely. One theory is that in low progesterone women dht is increased as a compensation to balance estrogen but facial hair is a side effect. Another theory is that progesterone supplementation will liberate estrogen from tissue which can overburden the liver and trigger your symptoms.

Peat recommends some thyroid when starting progesterone. Carrot salad, boiled wheat/oat bran, mushrooms can help the excretion of estrogen. Take progesterone only in the luteal phase. What kind of oil is the progesterone in?

Your diet looks good, protein and sugar are important to feed your liver to do the job. Vitamin E, B and magnesium can be helpful the rest of your supps looks sketchy at best, if they haven't done the promised miracle yet then better ditch them. Aspirin, Methylen blue, cyproheptadin are worth having around.

Hey thanks so much for the reply!

I was wondering if maybe the progesterone was liberating estrogen and that's why I was having some of the androgenic side effects, I always get a little nervous when they say to up the dose when experiencing symptoms, although when I started to get a headache one day I took 5 additional drops topically, and my headache was gone in 15 min. I have only taken progesterone during luteal phase. I never get clearly positive LH tests so it's tricky to tell when I ovulate- I have to be very in tune with body cues. I check basal body temps too. My previous cycles without progesterone would never go above 98 during luteal... With progesterone I would get 98+ basal temps every night which I was happy about. I took the progesterone topically once in the morning and once at night. My cycles are considered "normal" ranging from 28-34 days.. Luteal phase is always rough for me- irritable, acne, headaches, breast tenderness. I was not any more irritable than normal, and didn't have anymore acne than normal. The headaches and breast tenderness were less than normal.

I am a little skidish about taking thyroid just from reading different perspectives on it and I'm not working with a practitioner and currently am not doing regular blood work. Last my TSH was tested it was .09, free t3 and free t4 we're tested but I know those are not great markers. My progesterone oil is in vitamin E and mct oil, I've only used it topically..it worked way better than the cream I tried last time.

Low dose aspirin? I have not been consistent with aspirin but I do take it on occasion if I'm feeling I have inflammation. I've been waiting for methylene blue to come back in stock on lifeblud, if you have any other companies to recommend getting it from let me know.

The diet part had taken me awhile to get the hang of, but I've finally got a good routine to get enough food in me during my busy days. I would say I've got some extra stress and working on that would definitely help me too. I've been sipping spearmint tea, as I've heard it can help with excess androgens. The carrot salad is hard for me to be consistent on and I know I need to make it apart of my routine. I try to limit my supps that I take and get mostly from food, to pinpoint what I'm lacking. Would you say getting enough sugar, and eating consistently would help with the liver burden?

I really appreciate the input. ?

 

[Michael Mohn]

I struggled with breakfast my whole life. It's good to have something handy like fruit or juice in the morning and some protein. Eating regularly and keeping blood sugar up keeps adrenaline low which can trigger all sorts of symptoms like anxiety, headache etc.

Having a strong incandescent or halogen lamp (250-400w) shine on you after waking up can lower cortisol and raise appetite.

But you can't eat yourself out of a bad lifestyle/ high stress. A good diet can only mitigate some effects of high stress (bad workplace, bad relationships).
Taking some propranolol for a few days can be life changing in terms of stress response / high adrenaline, I found.
Don't be afraid of thyroid. Our ancestors ate all parts of the animal, including the thyroid. Just trying some can reveal its benefits, forget most tests. High cholesterol, high prolactin and low vitamin D can show low thyroid.

Spearmint or mint is poison, can give me massive anxiety.
Androgens are good for women too just not too much with too little progesterone.
There are endless options to get methylen blue, mitolab, science.bio just of my head but I haven't bought there.
If you experience chronic stress then don't add an exhausting workout routine, walk in nature, swim what ever relaxes you with some enjoyable activity.

 

[Skeletonkey]

I struggled with breakfast my whole life. It's good to have something handy like fruit or juice in the morning and some protein. Eating regularly and keeping blood sugar up keeps adrenaline low which can trigger all sorts of symptoms like anxiety, headache etc.

Having a strong incandescent or halogen lamp (250-400w) shine on you after waking up can lower cortisol and raise appetite.

But you can't eat yourself out of a bad lifestyle/ high stress. A good diet can only mitigate some effects of high stress (bad workplace, bad relationships).
Taking some propranolol for a few days can be life changing in terms of stress response / high adrenaline, I found.
Don't be afraid of thyroid. Our ancestors ate all parts of the animal, including the thyroid. Just trying some can reveal its benefits, forget most tests. High cholesterol, high prolactin and low vitamin D can show low thyroid.

Spearmint or mint is poison, can give me massive anxiety.
Androgens are good for women too just not too much with too little progesterone.
There are endless options to get methylen blue, mitolab, science.bio just of my head but I haven't bought there.
If you experience chronic stress then don't add an exhausting workout routine, walk in nature, swim what ever relaxes you with some enjoyable activity.

I'll definitely check out the methylene blue sources and the morning light, breakfast being a priority has made a huge difference. I work at a salon, and sometimes I get overbooked and don't eat enough. I liked my job and my relationship is good, but money has been a huge stressor and not much I can do about it currently.

I will look into thyroid and do some research on dosing and maybe experiment. I know people have had amazing results from it. :)

 

[Michael Mohn]

If you take half a grain of thyroid twice a day with food you should see some benefit. Start with half a grain per day for a month. A grain of thyroid is 39mcg t4 and 8mcg of t4. Taking your temperature and puls at waking and after breakfast and after lunch can give you an idea if you're hypo or stressed. There's also bluebrainboost.com for MB but their site is down at the moment. Good luck with your job, I miss a good hairdresser.

 

[Skeletonkey]

If you take half a grain of thyroid twice a day with food you should see some benefit. Start with half a grain per day for a month. A grain of thyroid is 39mcg t4 and 8mcg of t4. Taking your temperature and puls at waking and after breakfast and after lunch can give you an idea if you're hypo or stressed. There's also bluebrainboost.com for MB but their site is down at the moment. Good luck with your job, I miss a good hairdresser.

Am I able to find thyroid without getting a script? I searched for armour as I know that's the one peat talks about most. I've taking my temps before I usually sit under 97.5, unless I'm up and moving around then I'm at about 98.
And thanks, I'm currently in school for massage therapy- I'm much more interested in that and hope to switch over when I graduate ?