Listerine Changed My Life

[miquelangeles]

What do you use as toothpaste ?

And do you put the baking soda in your mouth with or without dissolving it in water ?

I don't have a favorite one but I favor ones with enzymes, clay or charcoal.
Sometimes I brush with baking soda alone, sometimes with toothpaste plus another round with baking soda. For brushing with baking soda, you put the desired amount into the palm of your hand and collect it with a wet toothbrush.

In that post I was mentioning a pinch of baking soda directly into the mouth after brushing. Usually baking soda mouth rinse is used but I find it easier to just take a pinch and dissolve it directly into your mouth.

 

[Mauritio]

I don't have a favorite one but I favor ones with enzymes, clay or charcoal.
Sometimes I brush with baking soda alone, sometimes with toothpaste plus another round with baking soda. For brushing with baking soda, you put the desired amount into the palm of your hand and collect it with a wet toothbrush.

In that post I was mentioning a pinch of baking soda directly into the mouth after brushing. Usually baking soda mouth rinse is used but I find it easier to just take a pinch and dissolve it directly into your mouth.

Ok thanks.

 

[InChristAlone]

I found this article last night. Reboot Your Gut: Optimizing Health and Preventing Infectious Disease
Here's part of the article (CPC= chronic pathogen colonization):

Tongue Hygiene

"Probably the most important factor to address in normalizing a gut with established CPC is to eliminate as much as possible the "seeding" of new pathogens into the gut on a daily, "24/7" basis. This seeding occurs because of the chronic swallowing of pathogens and their associated toxins from areas of CPC in the mucosa of the sinuses, oro- and nasopharynx, oral cavity, and both upper and lower respiratory tracts. An especially important and very commonly neglected reservoir of such pathogens resides on chronically colonized and overgrown tongues. [58] Most individuals with CPC anywhere else in their alimentary tract have an abnormal tongue flora.


The tongue typically has a very heavy biofilm covering an array of anaerobic bacteria, viruses, fungi, and even protozoa. Furthermore, chronically impacted and rotting food particles are often found in the many fissures and microscopic papillae (tiny finger-like projections on the surface of the tongue) trapped under this biofilm. Your tongue has no way of naturally ridding itself of this noxious overgrowth. Just as your hands or any other part of your body cannot spontaneously clean themselves, neither can your tongue.


Patients with thicker tongue coatings have been shown to have significantly higher serum CRP (C-reactive protein) levels than patients with thinner tongue coatings. This suggests that the presence of CPC on a chronically-coated tongue is capable of causing body-wide increased oxidative stress, as reflected in the increased CRP levels. [59] The mechanical removal of the tongue biofilm, especially when tongue scraping is part of the removal protocol, is often an effective way to treat refractory halitosis. [60,61] Pathogen metabolism produces bad smells, while the metabolism of normal flora does not. [62] It has also been shown that the pathogens commonly seen with periodontal disease are closely related to the foul-smelling tongue coatings. [63]


Because of this, the overgrown tongue plays the leading role in the sequence of pathogen sources that must be addressed in order to achieve an optimally healthy gut. Each source must be individually addressed. The protocol for restoring and maintaining a healthy tongue should include the following:

• Use any commercially available tongue scraper to mechanically remove as much biofilm, pathogen, and pathogen-related debris as possible. This really only takes seconds. Many YouTube videos demonstrate this simple technique. This should be performed at a minimum of twice daily (first thing in the morning, last thing at night). Optimally, it should be done after every meal, which can always reseed new food particles into the microscopic tongue crevices. The rate of reformation of tongue coatings indicates that daily cleaning is indicated. [64]
• Whenever you brush your teeth, it is always best to do it after you scrape your tongue. Routinely brush your tongue as well with your toothbrush and toothpaste.
• Swish and gargle with an antiseptic mouthwash after every scraping.
• Consider oral irrigation on a regular basis, and always at least daily before retiring at night to minimize the rotting of retained food particulates.

Nebulization


Nebulization is a process that converts a liquid form of a medication into a fine mist that can be readily inhaled, facilitating direct contact of the nebulized agent with the mucosal linings of the sinuses, oral cavity, throat and respiratory tract. [65] The multiple benefits of nebulization include the following:

• Provides a direct route of drug administration, such as for asthma and bronchoconstriction
• Moistens inhaled air and promotes the mobilization and expulsion of tenacious mucus or other secretions
• Allows a direct contact of anti-pathogenic agents with areas of CPC
• Allows the use of anti-pathogenic agents in lower doses than what are needed for systemic administration, with lessened risk of medication toxicity or other side effects
• Offers a means to directly attack and break up tenacious biofilms

To date, there is still no consistently effective way to completely destroy/disrupt a persistent biofilm and kill the protected pathogens through the use of prescribed medicines. This is a primary reason why so many individuals have largely treatment-resistant chronic sinusitis, chronic cough, and chronic mucus production with various degrees of impaired ability to freely breathe, especially when trying to get a good night's sleep.


Two substances that are especially effective in stripping away biofilms to permit the effective application of anti-pathogen measures are hydrogen peroxide and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO). [66-69] When dealing with chronic conditions in the sinuses and pharynx, it is probably best to first nebulize with hydrogen peroxide (1 to 5 cc of 3% peroxide with volume brought up to 10 to 12 cc with filtered water) for about 15 minutes or so, and then follow with nebulization of any of a number of other agents.


Alternatively, DMSO can be readily combined with other anti-pathogen agents, such as sodium ascorbate (vitamin C) and magnesium chloride. Anecdotally, this DMSO-vitamin C-magnesium chloride combination has proven to be very effective in clearing biofilms and their underlying pathogen colonies. This can be done with 1 to 5 cc of 99.9% DMSO brought up to 10 to 12 cc with a combination solution of vitamin C and magnesium chloride. Precise concentrations are not critical, and the combination solution can be quickly and easily made by adding about 2 teaspoons of sodium ascorbate powder and 2 teaspoons of magnesium chloride powder to about a half cup of water. Since the sodium ascorbate will oxidize over several hours as it turns yellow, it can be made separately from the magnesium chloride solution, which remains very stable and does not significantly deteriorate over time.


Remember that probiotics, nebulization, and regular tongue and oral hygiene measures all separately impact the gut microbiome in a positive manner. Nevertheless, the combination of any two or all three of these interventions can be expected to have a synergistic impact rather than just an additive impact in establishing and maintaining a normal or near-normal gut microbiome. And a normal gut microbiome should also prove to be very synergistic in optimizing the beneficial effects of any clinical treatment protocol."

Great info. I slacked on my tongue scraping the last couple yrs, but going to get back into it. I still do the waterpik with a drop of lugols iodine.

 

[mostlylurking]

Great info. I slacked on my tongue scraping the last couple yrs, but going to get back into it. I still do the waterpik with a drop of lugols iodine.

I can't seem to be able to do a waterpik. It tickles too much. I ordered tongue scrapers today and plan to nebulize some hydrogen peroxide in a few minutes (just got back from the dentist where various people stuck their hands in my mouth).

 

[miquelangeles]

I found this article last night. Reboot Your Gut: Optimizing Health and Preventing Infectious Disease
Here's part of the article (CPC= chronic pathogen colonization):

Tongue Hygiene

"Probably the most important factor to address in normalizing a gut with established CPC is to eliminate as much as possible the "seeding" of new pathogens into the gut on a daily, "24/7" basis. This seeding occurs because of the chronic swallowing of pathogens and their associated toxins from areas of CPC in the mucosa of the sinuses, oro- and nasopharynx, oral cavity, and both upper and lower respiratory tracts. An especially important and very commonly neglected reservoir of such pathogens resides on chronically colonized and overgrown tongues. [58] Most individuals with CPC anywhere else in their alimentary tract have an abnormal tongue flora.


The tongue typically has a very heavy biofilm covering an array of anaerobic bacteria, viruses, fungi, and even protozoa. Furthermore, chronically impacted and rotting food particles are often found in the many fissures and microscopic papillae (tiny finger-like projections on the surface of the tongue) trapped under this biofilm. Your tongue has no way of naturally ridding itself of this noxious overgrowth. Just as your hands or any other part of your body cannot spontaneously clean themselves, neither can your tongue.


Patients with thicker tongue coatings have been shown to have significantly higher serum CRP (C-reactive protein) levels than patients with thinner tongue coatings. This suggests that the presence of CPC on a chronically-coated tongue is capable of causing body-wide increased oxidative stress, as reflected in the increased CRP levels. [59] The mechanical removal of the tongue biofilm, especially when tongue scraping is part of the removal protocol, is often an effective way to treat refractory halitosis. [60,61] Pathogen metabolism produces bad smells, while the metabolism of normal flora does not. [62] It has also been shown that the pathogens commonly seen with periodontal disease are closely related to the foul-smelling tongue coatings. [63]


Because of this, the overgrown tongue plays the leading role in the sequence of pathogen sources that must be addressed in order to achieve an optimally healthy gut. Each source must be individually addressed. The protocol for restoring and maintaining a healthy tongue should include the following:

• Use any commercially available tongue scraper to mechanically remove as much biofilm, pathogen, and pathogen-related debris as possible. This really only takes seconds. Many YouTube videos demonstrate this simple technique. This should be performed at a minimum of twice daily (first thing in the morning, last thing at night). Optimally, it should be done after every meal, which can always reseed new food particles into the microscopic tongue crevices. The rate of reformation of tongue coatings indicates that daily cleaning is indicated. [64]
• Whenever you brush your teeth, it is always best to do it after you scrape your tongue. Routinely brush your tongue as well with your toothbrush and toothpaste.
• Swish and gargle with an antiseptic mouthwash after every scraping.
• Consider oral irrigation on a regular basis, and always at least daily before retiring at night to minimize the rotting of retained food particulates.

Nebulization


Nebulization is a process that converts a liquid form of a medication into a fine mist that can be readily inhaled, facilitating direct contact of the nebulized agent with the mucosal linings of the sinuses, oral cavity, throat and respiratory tract. [65] The multiple benefits of nebulization include the following:

• Provides a direct route of drug administration, such as for asthma and bronchoconstriction
• Moistens inhaled air and promotes the mobilization and expulsion of tenacious mucus or other secretions
• Allows a direct contact of anti-pathogenic agents with areas of CPC
• Allows the use of anti-pathogenic agents in lower doses than what are needed for systemic administration, with lessened risk of medication toxicity or other side effects
• Offers a means to directly attack and break up tenacious biofilms

To date, there is still no consistently effective way to completely destroy/disrupt a persistent biofilm and kill the protected pathogens through the use of prescribed medicines. This is a primary reason why so many individuals have largely treatment-resistant chronic sinusitis, chronic cough, and chronic mucus production with various degrees of impaired ability to freely breathe, especially when trying to get a good night's sleep.


Two substances that are especially effective in stripping away biofilms to permit the effective application of anti-pathogen measures are hydrogen peroxide and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO). [66-69] When dealing with chronic conditions in the sinuses and pharynx, it is probably best to first nebulize with hydrogen peroxide (1 to 5 cc of 3% peroxide with volume brought up to 10 to 12 cc with filtered water) for about 15 minutes or so, and then follow with nebulization of any of a number of other agents.


Alternatively, DMSO can be readily combined with other anti-pathogen agents, such as sodium ascorbate (vitamin C) and magnesium chloride. Anecdotally, this DMSO-vitamin C-magnesium chloride combination has proven to be very effective in clearing biofilms and their underlying pathogen colonies. This can be done with 1 to 5 cc of 99.9% DMSO brought up to 10 to 12 cc with a combination solution of vitamin C and magnesium chloride. Precise concentrations are not critical, and the combination solution can be quickly and easily made by adding about 2 teaspoons of sodium ascorbate powder and 2 teaspoons of magnesium chloride powder to about a half cup of water. Since the sodium ascorbate will oxidize over several hours as it turns yellow, it can be made separately from the magnesium chloride solution, which remains very stable and does not significantly deteriorate over time.


Remember that probiotics, nebulization, and regular tongue and oral hygiene measures all separately impact the gut microbiome in a positive manner. Nevertheless, the combination of any two or all three of these interventions can be expected to have a synergistic impact rather than just an additive impact in establishing and maintaining a normal or near-normal gut microbiome. And a normal gut microbiome should also prove to be very synergistic in optimizing the beneficial effects of any clinical treatment protocol."

Great article.

I would add the following:
- professional teeth cleaning twice a year as the very first step; tongue is easy to clean but dental plaque is the stubborn source of "starter cultures"
- a high end toothbrush such as Sonicare 9900
- incorporating sodium bicarbonate brushing, sb mouth rinse or sb-containing toothpaste (the composition and activity of microbial communities respond strongly to pH variation)

 

[mostlylurking]

Great article.

I would add the following:
- professional teeth cleaning twice a year as the very first step; tongue is easy to clean but dental plaque is the stubborn source of "starter cultures"
- a high end toothbrush such as Sonicare 9900
- incorporating sodium bicarbonate brushing, sb mouth rinse or sb-containing toothpaste (the composition and activity of microbial communities respond strongly to pH variation)

Baking soda toothpaste turned out to be too erosive for me, it increased tooth sensitivity. I moved on to Squiggles Tooth Builder toothpaste; I like it better. Fixed the sensitivity problem. I might try sb as a mouth rinse though. Thanks.

 

[miquelangeles]

I can't seem to be able to do a waterpik. It tickles too much. I ordered tongue scrapers today and plan to nebulize some hydrogen peroxide in a few minutes (just got back from the dentist where various people stuck their hands in my mouth).

I never understood water flossing either. Too much hassle, things need to be kept as simple as possible. Not to mention dentists will generally advise that they are used "in addition to string floss or interdental brushes". A high end electric brush almost removes the need for water flossing.
Better use those 2 minutes of water flossing to rinse with triphala instead, which was shown to be more effective than chlorhexidine.

The effect of Triphala and Chlorhexidine mouthwash on dental plaque, gingival inflammation, and microbial growth

The objective of this study was to ascertain the effects of a mouthwash prepared with Triphala on dental plaque, gingival inflammation, and microbial growth and compare it with commercially available Chlorhexidine mouthwash. This study was conducted after ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[miquelangeles]

Baking soda toothpaste turned out to be too erosive for me, it increased tooth sensitivity. I moved on to Squiggles Tooth Builder toothpaste; I like it better. Fixed the sensitivity problem. I might try sb as a mouth rinse though. Thanks.

It can be erosive, yes. I use straight sb powder but not every day, for that reason.
You should try triphala rinse, it is very astringent and pulls out everything from every corner of your mouth. Great for digestive health as well, but you need to find a balanced dose. Taking too much can cause constipation through the same mechanism. It is particularly good at removing mucus from the GI tract, and taking too much leaves the intestine more exposed to irritants.

 

[BearWithMe]

I never understood water flossing either. Too much hassle, things need to be kept as simple as possible. Not to mention dentists will generally advise that they are used "in addition to string floss or interdental brushes". A high end electric brush almost removes the need for water flossing.
Better use those 2 minutes of water flossing to rinse with triphala instead, which was shown to be more effective than chlorhexidine.

The effect of Triphala and Chlorhexidine mouthwash on dental plaque, gingival inflammation, and microbial growth

The objective of this study was to ascertain the effects of a mouthwash prepared with Triphala on dental plaque, gingival inflammation, and microbial growth and compare it with commercially available Chlorhexidine mouthwash. This study was conducted after ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I would not floss at all tbh. In the long run, it causes more harm than good.

 

[Seven]

I can't seem to be able to do a waterpik. It tickles too much. I ordered tongue scrapers today and plan to nebulize some hydrogen peroxide in a few minutes (just got back from the dentist where various people stuck their hands in my mouth).

As a stopgap measure, you can use a teaspoon as a tongue scraper. A teaspoon also works well for peeling ginger. It's one of nature's miracles. ?

 

[mostlylurking]

As a stopgap measure, you can use a teaspoon as a tongue scraper. A teaspoon also works well for peeling ginger. It's one of nature's miracles. ?

Brilliant idea! A spoon!!

 

[InChristAlone]

I never understood water flossing either. Too much hassle, things need to be kept as simple as possible. Not to mention dentists will generally advise that they are used "in addition to string floss or interdental brushes". A high end electric brush almost removes the need for water flossing.
Better use those 2 minutes of water flossing to rinse with triphala instead, which was shown to be more effective than chlorhexidine.

The effect of Triphala and Chlorhexidine mouthwash on dental plaque, gingival inflammation, and microbial growth

The objective of this study was to ascertain the effects of a mouthwash prepared with Triphala on dental plaque, gingival inflammation, and microbial growth and compare it with commercially available Chlorhexidine mouthwash. This study was conducted after ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The water flossing is for getting into the gum line where all the bacteria and pathogens like to hang out. Also I have a lot of food come out sometimes that doesn't come out with either swishing or toothbrushing. I have cavities that need to be filled. Hate the dentist!

 

[Makrosky]

Guys, what do you do to keep the toothbrush clean? I have thought about leaving it submerged in a glass of water with one of these diluted:
- iodine
- listerine
- MMS

What do you do normally?

 

[InChristAlone]

Guys, what do you do to keep the toothbrush clean? I have thought about leaving it submerged in a glass of water with one of these diluted:
- iodine
- listerine
- MMS

What do you do normally?

Leaving to dry is the biggest thing. So if you brush morning and night use two different ones.

 

[BearWithMe]

Guys, what do you do to keep the toothbrush clean? I have thought about leaving it submerged in a glass of water with one of these diluted:
- iodine
- listerine
- MMS

What do you do normally?

Get UV sterilizer. MMS will evaporate, listerine will leech plasticizers fom your toothbrush, iodine will be a mess.

 

[Makrosky]

Get UV sterilizer. MMS will evaporate, listerine will leech plasticizers fom your toothbrush, iodine will be a mess.

Hmmm damn. You are right. Anyother method that doesn't involve buying a gadget?

Btw iodine I don't think it has to be a mess. It is going to be diluted. Plus if some remains in the fibers it is going to touch directly your mouth so it disinfects + you absorv some tiny amount that is always good.

 

[Makrosky]

Leaving to dry is the biggest thing. So if you brush morning and night use two different ones.

Good idea.

Also what about heavily salted water? After all salt is a food conservative it must kill (or stop from replicating) bacteria.

 

[Rasaari]

Povidone-iodine mouthwash, chlorhexidine-cetylpyridiniumchloride, oregano oil diluted with some oil (mct, olive) can all be helpful for killing bacteria and biofilm. Zinc can be useful against calculus. I wouldn't use chlorhexidine personally.

Listerine and other mouthwashes usually use some combination of eteric oils: menthol, thymol, eucalyptus etc... Oregano oil has carvacrol and thymol which are one of the most potent natural antibacterials. I think the alcohol is there to enhance the biofilm penetration?

Eating starch free has been very good for keeping plaque low, however my tongue gets easily coated, whether it is sibo or just mouthbuildup I'm not sure, but this thread got me motivated to keep my mouth clean

 

[Makrosky]

Povidone-iodine mouthwash, chlorhexidine-cetylpyridiniumchloride, oregano oil diluted with some oil (mct, olive) can all be helpful for killing bacteria and biofilm. Zinc can be useful against calculus. I wouldn't use chlorhexidine personally.

Listerine and other mouthwashes usually use some combination of eteric oils: menthol, thymol, eucalyptus etc... Oregano oil has carvacrol and thymol which are one of the most potent natural antibacterials. I think the alcohol is there to enhance the biofilm penetration?

Eating starch free has been very good for keeping plaque low, however my tongue gets easily coated, whether it is sibo or just mouthbuildup I'm not sure, but this thread got me motivated to keep my mouth clean

True. I forgot about carvacrol. Maybe putting some cloves in the water and submerge the brush on it.

 

[BearWithMe]

Hmmm damn. You are right. Anyother method that doesn't involve buying a gadget?

Btw iodine I don't think it has to be a mess. It is going to be diluted. Plus if some remains in the fibers it is going to touch directly your mouth so it disinfects + you absorv some tiny amount that is always good.

This gadget will save you money long term.