Listerine Changed My Life

[miquelangeles]

I know this thread is old but I have read research that says people who use anti bacterial mouthwash significantly reduce nitric oxide levels in the body because nitric oxide is formed from saliva and oral bacteria basically which is then destroyed by the mouthwash.

Because the plasma levels of nitrite are highly dependent on the amount of salivary nitrate and its reduction to nitrite, the use of an antibacterial mouthwash [27] and frequent spitting of saliva consequently decrease the plasma levels of nitrite [20].

NO-Rich Diet for Lifestyle-Related Diseases

Decreased nitric oxide (NO) availability due to obesity and endothelial dysfunction might be causally related to the development of lifestyle-related diseases such as insulin resistance, ischemic heart disease, and hypertension. In such situations, instead ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The increase in plasma nitrite after a dietary nitrate load is markedly attenuated by an antibacterial mouthwash - PubMed

Recent studies surprisingly show that dietary inorganic nitrate, abundant in vegetables, can be metabolized in vivo to form nitrite and then bioactive nitric oxide. A reduction in blood pressure was recently noted in healthy volunteers after dietary supplementation with nitrate; an effect...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So possibly there is a reduction in NO from the mouthwash that results in better health.

Yes.
I am noticing even greater benefits from using a Curaprox tongue scraper to thoroughly clean the tongue, in addition to mouthwash.
My sleep is deeper and more restful, and the breath is as fresh as the night before.
I was surprised to see these improvements and I immediately remembered a Ray Peat interview (or a quote) where he talked about his first experience with penicillin - I think he said that he felt an immediate sense of euphoria shortly after putting it in his mouth, a sign that it stopped the multiplication of bacteria that were producing toxic substances.
A pinch of baking soda directly in mouth at bedtime has a similar effect. Baking soda not only has antibacterial properties but it increases bacterial susceptibility to antibiotics and it also increases the potency of salivary antimicrobial peptides up to a hundredfold.

 

[BearWithMe]

I know this thread is old but I have read research that says people who use anti bacterial mouthwash significantly reduce nitric oxide levels in the body because nitric oxide is formed from saliva and oral bacteria basically which is then destroyed by the mouthwash.

Because the plasma levels of nitrite are highly dependent on the amount of salivary nitrate and its reduction to nitrite, the use of an antibacterial mouthwash [27] and frequent spitting of saliva consequently decrease the plasma levels of nitrite [20].

NO-Rich Diet for Lifestyle-Related Diseases

Decreased nitric oxide (NO) availability due to obesity and endothelial dysfunction might be causally related to the development of lifestyle-related diseases such as insulin resistance, ischemic heart disease, and hypertension. In such situations, instead ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The increase in plasma nitrite after a dietary nitrate load is markedly attenuated by an antibacterial mouthwash - PubMed

Recent studies surprisingly show that dietary inorganic nitrate, abundant in vegetables, can be metabolized in vivo to form nitrite and then bioactive nitric oxide. A reduction in blood pressure was recently noted in healthy volunteers after dietary supplementation with nitrate; an effect...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So possibly there is a reduction in NO from the mouthwash that results in better health.

Awesome find, thanks for sharing!

 

[BearWithMe]

Yes.
I am noticing even greater benefits from using a Curaprox tongue scraper to thoroughly clean the tongue, in addition to mouthwash.
My sleep is deeper and more restful, and the breath is as fresh as the night before.
I was surprised to see these improvements and I immediately remembered a Ray Peat interview (or a quote) where he talked about his first experience with penicillin - I think he said that he felt an immediate sense of euphoria shortly after putting it in his mouth, a sign that it stopped the multiplication of bacteria that were producing toxic substances.
A pinch of baking soda directly in mouth at bedtime has a similar effect. Baking soda not only has antibacterial properties but it increases bacterial susceptibility to antibiotics and it also increases the potency of salivary antimicrobial peptides up to a hundredfold.

So mouthwash + tongue scrapper is giving you greater benefits than mouthwash alone? Wow, that's surprising. What kind of mouthwash do you use?

 

[Ell]

Recently saw something about Listerine being the best option because it uses tree oils.

My wife strangely bought some recently, so I started using it.

My lifetime struggle with getting out of bed in the morning is over.

At my worst it took 30 mins to an hour of head bobbing, multiple alarms, and think-I'm-awake-but-I'm-actually-dreaming-about-getting-ready-for-work/school.

I'm not a lazy piece of crap after all.

Here Here , cheers for Joseph Lister MD and the crap he got thrown at him by the "Establishemen" at the time, merely for suggestion of hygeine and hand-washing. Literally, saved a billion women's lives by now. So if you ever say something that others shudder from or get mad at you over, take it as a good sign that you'fre on the right track !!!!!!!!

 

[miquelangeles]

So mouthwash + tongue scrapper is giving you greater benefits than mouthwash alone? Wow, that's surprising. What kind of mouthwash do you use?

Yes. Just check some youtube videos of tongue scraping to see the amount of junk that accumulates there constantly, even when it looks apparently clean.
I don’t use mouthwash every day but I alternate between listerine, parodontax and occasionally chlorhexidine.

 

[BearWithMe]

Yes. Just check some youtube videos of tongue scraping to see the amount of junk that accumulates there constantly, even when it looks apparently clean.
I don’t use mouthwash every day but I alternate between listerine, parodontax and occasionally chlorhexidine.

Damn, that sounds awesome.

I have an old copper tongue scrapper I have bought years ago but never used it. Need to dig it out and try it.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[LauriePartridge]

Yes.
I am noticing even greater benefits from using a Curaprox tongue scraper to thoroughly clean the tongue, in addition to mouthwash.
My sleep is deeper and more restful, and the breath is as fresh as the night before.
I was surprised to see these improvements and I immediately remembered a Ray Peat interview (or a quote) where he talked about his first experience with penicillin - I think he said that he felt an immediate sense of euphoria shortly after putting it in his mouth, a sign that it stopped the multiplication of bacteria that were producing toxic substances.
A pinch of baking soda directly in mouth at bedtime has a similar effect. Baking soda not only has antibacterial properties but it increases bacterial susceptibility to antibiotics and it also increases the potency of salivary antimicrobial peptides up to a hundredfold.

Great information, thanks!

 

[LauriePartridge]

Yes. Just check some youtube videos of tongue scraping to see the amount of junk that accumulates there constantly, even when it looks apparently clean.
I don’t use mouthwash every day but I alternate between listerine, parodontax and occasionally chlorhexidine.

Chlorhexidine, I believe, was the main chemical in the antibacterial mouthwash in the study that produced the best results with Listerine as the runner up. Do you know any side effects to chlorhexidine? The tongue scraper idea seems like an excellent tool because it's non invasive.

 

[miquelangeles]

Chlorhexidine, I believe, was the main chemical in the antibacterial mouthwash in the study that produced the best results with Listerine as the runner up. Do you know any side effects to chlorhexidine? The tongue scraper idea seems like an excellent tool because it's non invasive.

I don't think it's entirely safe but it seems very effective especially for localized infections. Apart from reversible tooth staining and increased tartar, the so called disinfection byproducts caused by chlorine could be an issue. And if the concentration is too high it can cause burning and affect the sense of taste for several hours.
Honestly I found tongue scraping more effective than chlorhexidine.
As well as brushing with baking soda. Or with papain powder for as long as tolerable before the enzyme begins to irritate the oral mucosa.
The next best thing I found was triphala powder in warm water used as a mouth rinse. It is so astringent that it pulls out everything from the teeth, gums, and tongue - on par with the tongue scraper.

 

[miquelangeles]

Damn, that sounds awesome.

I have an old copper tongue scrapper I have bought years ago but never used it. Need to dig it out and try it.

Thanks for sharing!

Same here. I've had one for more than a decade and never used it properly. There are different types. You have to scrape (lightly or otherwise it can cause tongue bleeding or damage the taste buds) until nothing else comes out, for a minute or two. The one I use has small ridges like in the pic below

 

[reaching]

Listerine as face wash and hair rinse is nice too.

 

[LauriePartridge]

I don't think it's entirely safe but it seems very effective especially for localized infections. Apart from reversible tooth staining and increased tartar, the so called disinfection byproducts caused by chlorine could be an issue. And if the concentration is too high it can cause burning and affect the sense of taste for several hours.
Honestly I found tongue scraping more effective than chlorhexidine.
As well as brushing with baking soda. Or with papain powder for as long as tolerable before the enzyme begins to irritate the oral mucosa.
The next best thing I found was triphala powder in warm water used as a mouth rinse. It is so astringent that it pulls out everything from the teeth, gums, and tongue - on par with the tongue scraper.

Ok good to know. That's interesting information. I'm going to try the tongue scraper and baking soda which seem very safe. And maybe a shot of the Listerine. Do you know how often it's safe to use the tongue scraper?

 

[miquelangeles]

Ok good to know. That's interesting information. I'm going to try the tongue scraper and baking soda which seem very safe. And maybe a shot of the Listerine. Do you know how often it's safe to use the tongue scraper?

Some dentists recommend a few times per week, others say daily.
It's important that you don't press too hard because it can damage the papillae and cause bleeding quite easily. Multiple light scrubs are more effective and won't cause damage.

 

[LauriePartridge]

Ok thanks!

 

[-Luke-]

I bought a bottle of Listerine yesterday (the one without fluoride) and I can see why it wakes people up. That stuff almost burned my mouth away. Are you supposed to use it diluted with water? I'm normally not that sensitive to that feeling, I eat pure ginger a few times a week.

But my mouth feels really clean afterwards. Dental plaque is gone after using it.

 

[BearWithMe]

I bought a bottle of Listerine yesterday (the one without fluoride) and I can see why it wakes people up. That stuff almost burned my mouth away. Are you supposed to use it diluted with water? I'm normally not that sensitive to that feeling, I eat pure ginger a few times a week.

But my mouth feels really clean afterwards. Dental plaque is gone after using it.

Keep using it, this feeling will go away in a week

 

[Mauritio]

Yes.
I am noticing even greater benefits from using a Curaprox tongue scraper to thoroughly clean the tongue, in addition to mouthwash.
My sleep is deeper and more restful, and the breath is as fresh as the night before.
I was surprised to see these improvements and I immediately remembered a Ray Peat interview (or a quote) where he talked about his first experience with penicillin - I think he said that he felt an immediate sense of euphoria shortly after putting it in his mouth, a sign that it stopped the multiplication of bacteria that were producing toxic substances.
A pinch of baking soda directly in mouth at bedtime has a similar effect. Baking soda not only has antibacterial properties but it increases bacterial susceptibility to antibiotics and it also increases the potency of salivary antimicrobial peptides up to a hundredfold.

What do you use as toothpaste ?

And do you put the baking soda in your mouth with or without dissolving it in water ?

 

[Makrosky]

Keep using it, this feeling will go away in a week

I think it kills beneficial bacteria also? Not really sure this thing is safe.

 

[mostlylurking]

I found this article last night. Reboot Your Gut: Optimizing Health and Preventing Infectious Disease
Here's part of the article (CPC= chronic pathogen colonization):

Tongue Hygiene

"Probably the most important factor to address in normalizing a gut with established CPC is to eliminate as much as possible the "seeding" of new pathogens into the gut on a daily, "24/7" basis. This seeding occurs because of the chronic swallowing of pathogens and their associated toxins from areas of CPC in the mucosa of the sinuses, oro- and nasopharynx, oral cavity, and both upper and lower respiratory tracts. An especially important and very commonly neglected reservoir of such pathogens resides on chronically colonized and overgrown tongues. [58] Most individuals with CPC anywhere else in their alimentary tract have an abnormal tongue flora.


The tongue typically has a very heavy biofilm covering an array of anaerobic bacteria, viruses, fungi, and even protozoa. Furthermore, chronically impacted and rotting food particles are often found in the many fissures and microscopic papillae (tiny finger-like projections on the surface of the tongue) trapped under this biofilm. Your tongue has no way of naturally ridding itself of this noxious overgrowth. Just as your hands or any other part of your body cannot spontaneously clean themselves, neither can your tongue.


Patients with thicker tongue coatings have been shown to have significantly higher serum CRP (C-reactive protein) levels than patients with thinner tongue coatings. This suggests that the presence of CPC on a chronically-coated tongue is capable of causing body-wide increased oxidative stress, as reflected in the increased CRP levels. [59] The mechanical removal of the tongue biofilm, especially when tongue scraping is part of the removal protocol, is often an effective way to treat refractory halitosis. [60,61] Pathogen metabolism produces bad smells, while the metabolism of normal flora does not. [62] It has also been shown that the pathogens commonly seen with periodontal disease are closely related to the foul-smelling tongue coatings. [63]


Because of this, the overgrown tongue plays the leading role in the sequence of pathogen sources that must be addressed in order to achieve an optimally healthy gut. Each source must be individually addressed. The protocol for restoring and maintaining a healthy tongue should include the following:

• Use any commercially available tongue scraper to mechanically remove as much biofilm, pathogen, and pathogen-related debris as possible. This really only takes seconds. Many YouTube videos demonstrate this simple technique. This should be performed at a minimum of twice daily (first thing in the morning, last thing at night). Optimally, it should be done after every meal, which can always reseed new food particles into the microscopic tongue crevices. The rate of reformation of tongue coatings indicates that daily cleaning is indicated. [64]
• Whenever you brush your teeth, it is always best to do it after you scrape your tongue. Routinely brush your tongue as well with your toothbrush and toothpaste.
• Swish and gargle with an antiseptic mouthwash after every scraping.
• Consider oral irrigation on a regular basis, and always at least daily before retiring at night to minimize the rotting of retained food particulates.

Nebulization


Nebulization is a process that converts a liquid form of a medication into a fine mist that can be readily inhaled, facilitating direct contact of the nebulized agent with the mucosal linings of the sinuses, oral cavity, throat and respiratory tract. [65] The multiple benefits of nebulization include the following:

• Provides a direct route of drug administration, such as for asthma and bronchoconstriction
• Moistens inhaled air and promotes the mobilization and expulsion of tenacious mucus or other secretions
• Allows a direct contact of anti-pathogenic agents with areas of CPC
• Allows the use of anti-pathogenic agents in lower doses than what are needed for systemic administration, with lessened risk of medication toxicity or other side effects
• Offers a means to directly attack and break up tenacious biofilms

To date, there is still no consistently effective way to completely destroy/disrupt a persistent biofilm and kill the protected pathogens through the use of prescribed medicines. This is a primary reason why so many individuals have largely treatment-resistant chronic sinusitis, chronic cough, and chronic mucus production with various degrees of impaired ability to freely breathe, especially when trying to get a good night's sleep.


Two substances that are especially effective in stripping away biofilms to permit the effective application of anti-pathogen measures are hydrogen peroxide and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO). [66-69] When dealing with chronic conditions in the sinuses and pharynx, it is probably best to first nebulize with hydrogen peroxide (1 to 5 cc of 3% peroxide with volume brought up to 10 to 12 cc with filtered water) for about 15 minutes or so, and then follow with nebulization of any of a number of other agents.


Alternatively, DMSO can be readily combined with other anti-pathogen agents, such as sodium ascorbate (vitamin C) and magnesium chloride. Anecdotally, this DMSO-vitamin C-magnesium chloride combination has proven to be very effective in clearing biofilms and their underlying pathogen colonies. This can be done with 1 to 5 cc of 99.9% DMSO brought up to 10 to 12 cc with a combination solution of vitamin C and magnesium chloride. Precise concentrations are not critical, and the combination solution can be quickly and easily made by adding about 2 teaspoons of sodium ascorbate powder and 2 teaspoons of magnesium chloride powder to about a half cup of water. Since the sodium ascorbate will oxidize over several hours as it turns yellow, it can be made separately from the magnesium chloride solution, which remains very stable and does not significantly deteriorate over time.


Remember that probiotics, nebulization, and regular tongue and oral hygiene measures all separately impact the gut microbiome in a positive manner. Nevertheless, the combination of any two or all three of these interventions can be expected to have a synergistic impact rather than just an additive impact in establishing and maintaining a normal or near-normal gut microbiome. And a normal gut microbiome should also prove to be very synergistic in optimizing the beneficial effects of any clinical treatment protocol."

 

[BearWithMe]

I think it kills beneficial bacteria also? Not really sure this thing is safe.

It probably does, but its benefits outweight this con. By a HUGE margin.