K2 And Anxiety/OCD

[Sergey]

Hello guys
Long time reader, first time poster.

Have a question about something which has been bothering me for some time and will be very grateful for any advice.

The question.
What kind of metabolic changes can vitamin k2 induce which could lead to symptoms like anxiety/ocd?

Some context.
Three years ago I was taking a vitamin k2 supplement and experienced very specific symptoms like anxiety/flashes of negative thoughts, obsession without compulsions kind of thing. Nothing dramatic, but very specific and rather uncomfortable. Didn't experience that kind of things before that. I started then to remove supplements I was taking one by one (there were just few) and found that these symptoms disappeared entirely a day or two after stopping k2. Tried to introduce it again several times after that, and symptoms were quickly coming back.

Now, you guess what happened. I have recently started to have that kind of anxiety again, but this time I am not taking any k2, or any other supplement for that matter. Since sensitivity to k2 in the past was very strong and symptoms are very specific, I am thinking that this time it might be related to a disregulation of the same biochemical pathway which was disrupted/upregulated by k2 in the past.

Tried to find any information myself about possible biochemistry involved, but no luck so far. Liver? Carbohydrate methabolism? Thyroid? Any neurotransmitter involved? There seem to be some sensitivity now to potassium and thiamine, though I am not even 50% sure about that, just tried to introduce supps randomly and observe what happenes.

Any ideas on what could it be?

Thank you in advance for any help in understanding this.

 

[Vinero]

The form you take matters. Many people complain that MK-7 makes them feel weird of gives them anxiety. MK-4 is the right one to take and has no bad side effects, as long as you get enough calcium.

 

[Sergey]

Yeah, it was mk-7 in the past. My problem is that now I don't take any k2 and trying to understand what could be the mechanism behind it causing anxiety. I wonder if it depletes vitamin d somehow, maybe something as simple as that..
Edit: I think that I had the same reaction to mk-4 as well, tried taking thorne and had to stop.

 

[Blossom]

Did you take it by mouth?

Some people do better using the fat soluble vitamins topically rather than orally. I believe it’s been mentioned here on the forum that K specifically can irritate the gut.

 

[Blossom]

Then I bought the thorne research liquid K2 and applied it on skin (like RP told me, as to avoid any potential irritations of the intestines.) but it seemed to give me some sleep problems.

 

[Sergey]

I took it by mouth, yes. Hm, gut irritation and anxiety... maybe gut flora got out of control.. I do get better after charcoal, but it usually helps symptoms like brain fog, not this anxiety issues.

 

[Whichway?]

It might be making you low in calcium in your central nervous system. Have you tried taking either magnesium or calcium to see if this helps the symptoms?

 

[nwo2012]

Excess serotonin directly causes anxiety so anything that causes even the mildest gut irritation with lead to a release of serotonin. That's why tianeptine is such strong anxiolytic. The whole IBS thing, majority of whom suffer from anxiety and depression.

 

[Sergey]

The form you take matters. Many people complain that MK-7 makes them feel weird of gives them anxiety. MK-4 is the right one to take and has no bad side effects, as long as you get enough calcium.

Didn't realize yesterday that you mentioned calcium. Maybe it has something to do with it. My vitamin D levels are quite low as well which also points towards calcium issues.

 

[Sergey]

It might be making you low in calcium in your central nervous system. Have you tried taking either magnesium or calcium to see if this helps the symptoms?

Interesting, at the moment magnesium has very weird effect on me. It relaxes me, but also gives very weird feeling of being drunk and spacy, and actually makes ocd like symptoms worse. Can it indicate calcium deficiency, since they seem to compete with each other?

 

[nwo2012]

So

Interesting, at the moment magnesium has very weird effect on me. It relaxes me, but also gives very weird feeling of being drunk and spacy, and actually makes ocd like symptoms worse. Can it indicate calcium deficiency, since they seem to compete with each other?

Yes it sounds like it could be. Get a blood test to be sure, or just get those eggshells collected, washed, baked and ground. Up your cheese and milk if you can tolerate it.
How are your teeth? Sensitive?

 

[Sergey]

So


Yes it sounds like it could be. Get a blood test to be sure, or just get those eggshells collected, washed, baked and ground. Up your cheese and milk if you can tolerate it.
How are your teeth? Sensitive?[/

Thank you!
Teeth are not that sensitive at the moment, but enamel is quite eroded near gum line.

 

[Mauritio]

I also have the same response to K2 (Kuinone) . I think it is liver related ? I know it doesnt make sense. But all things that clean the liver give me those symptoms on quite low doses. I had a time where I somehow managed to take a bit of caffeine for a few weeks and found my tolerance for K2 increased!
So imo its likely liver related.

 

[Sergey]

I also have the same response to K2 (Kuinone) . I think it is liver related ? I know it doesnt make sense. But all things that clean the liver give me those symptoms on quite low doses. I had a time where I somehow managed to take a bit of caffeine for a few weeks and found my tolerance for K2 increased!
So imo its likely liver related.

Interesting! I also thought it might be liver related. I have quite some tension and pain in the liver area, usually 1-2 hours after meals. They are releived by taking some bitter herbs and sometimes binders like charcoal. I do feel like there is quite a bit of detox going on, not sure what triggered it.. Did anything other than caffeine helped?

 

[Mauritio]

Interesting! I also thought it might be liver related. I have quite some tension and pain in the liver area, usually 1-2 hours after meals. They are releived by taking some bitter herbs and sometimes binders like charcoal. I do feel like there is quite a bit of detox going on, not sure what triggered it.. Did anything other than caffeine helped?

not really . Some stuff outside of the Peat World like frequencies e.g. rife frequencies...

 

[Ihor]

Very interesting, I also thought why this was happening and was looking for others who could explain it, but it seems no one knows for sure. I also get the same symptoms after taking K-2 and a drop in blood sugar in the blood.
I suppose that at this moment K-2 somehow collects, removes and flushes out toxins from the liver through the bile duct, and if the outflow of bile is disturbed, they get stuck somewhere along the way of the bile, are absorbed again and cause stress or go to the intestine, but if at this moment there are no fiber/or other binder substance of these toxins, then they will be absorbed again which gives these symptoms. In this moment i hear muscle contraction at the location of the gallbladder.
To try this suggestion I tried to take K-2 after eating oatmeal, dense fiber, activated charcoal and it really worked, I suppose they tied up what they threw out the liver and instead of the stress reaction I immediately felt muscle relaxation, better mood, libido, but soon they disappeared since I believe the sorbent is not fully absorbed the toxin, or he just got rid of him in the long transit time of the intestine.

 

[Mauritio]

Very interesting, I also thought why this was happening and was looking for others who could explain it, but it seems no one knows for sure. I also get the same symptoms after taking K-2 and a drop in blood sugar in the blood.
I suppose that at this moment K-2 somehow collects, removes and flushes out toxins from the liver through the bile duct, and if the outflow of bile is disturbed, they get stuck somewhere along the way of the bile, are absorbed again and cause stress or go to the intestine, but if at this moment there are no fiber/or other binder substance of these toxins, then they will be absorbed again which gives these symptoms. In this moment i hear muscle contraction at the location of the gallbladder.
To try this suggestion I tried to take K-2 after eating oatmeal, dense fiber, activated charcoal and it really worked, I suppose they tied up what they threw out the liver and instead of the stress reaction I immediately felt muscle relaxation, better mood, libido, but soon they disappeared since I believe the sorbent is not fully absorbed the toxin, or he just got rid of him in the long transit time of the intestine.

How long after K2 did you take activated charcoal ?

 

[Mhouse]

It might be making you low in calcium in your central nervous system. Have you tried taking either magnesium or calcium to see if this helps the symptoms?

I have experimented with Kuinone (MK-4 vitamin K); I clearly noticed I get frustrated and angry thoughts (without apparent reason) when taken first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach. After some food, a good dose of calcium, I get none of these issues. I think someone in the Kuinone thread also mentioned this.

 

[sunraiser]

It does sound like a calcium metabolism issue. If you eat dairy to craving I highly doubt it's calcium itself, but vitamin D could certainly be an issue.

I get mega insulin resistance from k2 mk4 and mega low dopamine feelings (a little like you've described) from mk7 in the absence of vitamin D.

It can be challenging to find the right balance, though.

 

[Sergey]

Have been thinking about dopamine connection too. Last time the symptoms I described happened after too much of serotonin in the system, which depletes dopamine.