Is Casein the Devil ? Major calcification issues from Dairy with Casein

[Dr. B]

Because during digestion, A1 casein is broken down into beta-casomorphin-7, which causes lots of issues. I'm going to create content on this for next week.

No

I don't know exactly his view on it, but there are multiple studies showing that if people switch from A1 to A2 their inflammation goes down.

but how would the A1 develop? I don't think anyone can say definitively what caused it, even if it was genetic mutation, that's just the result not the cause.
the official explanation is a "genetic mutation" caused cows to magically develop the A1 protein around 1500 years ago. prior to that, all cows were apparently A2.
"genetic mutation" has to be caused by something, mostly poor metabolism, the same things that cause cancer and diabetes etc, so that could be pufa, radiation (not sure if there was much 1500 years ago), other toxins or potentially cannibalism or extremely unsanitary living/feeding conditions for the cows. I think mainstream sources say cannibalism caused the mad cow disease in cows, but that could apparently also be radiation causing it.

I think someone posted a quote from Ray on here where he said something like the patents for A2 are all owned by one company and he thinks it's marketing. But A2 seems to digest better. the thing is milk has so many variables beyond A1 and A2 like the added vitamin fillers, pasteurization, homogenization, diet of the cows, organic or not.

 

[Apple]

If I drink homogenized milk I get bloated and thick mucus in my throat, which eventually makes me prone to getting a sore throat. No problems whatsoever with unhomogenized goat's milk. Unhomogenized cow's milk is probably fine, but personally I feel it makes me sluggish and causes weight gain, as well as puffy face. With goat's milk I actually seem to lose weight no matter how much I drink. Goat's or sheep milk fat make my extremities very warm unlike cow's milk.

Because during digestion, A1 casein is broken down into beta-casomorphin-7, which causes lots of issues. I'm going to create content on this for next week.

Did you ever try lactose free milk A1 to compare ?
It is cheap and doesn't cause digestive issues for most people I know ...
I'm really baffled by this subject... lactose intolerance vs A1 intolerance
Unfortunately I can not get A2 milk here

 

[miquelangeles]

Did you ever try lactose free milk A1 to compare ?
It is cheap and doesn't cause digestive issues for most people I know ...
I'm really baffled by this subject... lactose intolerance vs A1 intolerance
Unfortunately I can not get A2 milk here

I never cared about the A1/A2 thing because in most parts of Europe it's not even mentioned. I did try lactose free (most likely A1) many times, and apart from the increased sweetness from the hydrolysis of lactose I haven't noticed any benefits.

Goat's milk is supposed to be A2 but it doesn't seem to be the factor in my case, because earlier today I bought some Greek goat's milk out of curiosity (organic Olympus goat's milk 3.5% fat homogenized) and it gave me instant thick mucus and bloating.

I know Ray Peat says homogenization shouldn't be a problem because the milk fat is emulsified by the bile in a similar way, but it seems to cause me issues and I've heard others too having the same experience.

 

[JamesGatz]

I never cared about the A1/A2 thing because in most parts of Europe it's not even mentioned.

I had someone from the Netherlands tell me that the only cows they have over there are A2 so all the milk they drink is A2, maybe this is true for other countries in Europe as well? A google search for Germany seems to say the same.

I had always wondered about this because people in the Netherlands and European countries for the most part tend to look a lot healthier when compared to the US and seem to have lowered serotonin - From most countries I've been to it seems that us in the USA seems to have the worst serotonin/indigestion/aggression issues I've seen, but our food supply is definitely largely compromised.

 

[miquelangeles]

I had someone from the Netherlands tell me that the only cows they have over there are A2 so all the milk they drink is A2, maybe this is true for other countries in Europe as well? A google search for Germany seems to say the same.

I had always wondered about this because people in the Netherlands and European countries for the most part tend to look a lot healthier when compared to the US and seem to have lowered serotonin - From most countries I've been to it seems that us in the USA seems to have the worst serotonin/indigestion/aggression issues I've seen, but our food supply is definitely largely compromised.

On the A1/A2 issue, I think the evidence is too weak for any conclusions. BCM-7 might or might not be an issue. There are plenty other opioids in milk and in other foods as well. I find it more likely that the industrial processing is the culprit, homogenization and pasteurization methods in this case. Not to mention other factors such as the animal feed etc. Personally I don't do well with homogenized and I was able to confirm this multiple times, including today with unhomogenized vs homogenized goat's milk (which is A2). BCM-7 could play a role too, maybe it's why cow's milk make me feel more sluggish both mentally and physically.

 

[Dr. B]

Because during digestion, A1 casein is broken down into beta-casomorphin-7, which causes lots of issues. I'm going to create content on this for next week.

No

I don't know exactly his view on it, but there are multiple studies showing that if people switch from A1 to A2 their inflammation goes down.

Mate which cows have you tried milk from, have you tried brown swiss cows, illawatta, ayrshire, or milking shorthorn milks?

Here's an interesting thing.

non homogenized, low temp pasteurized, 100% grass fed, A2 milk, seems to have a teeth cleaning effect. it cleans the tongue and teeth seemingly. the milk has a creamline, im not sure which cow it is, it seems it could be jersey or guernsey jersey mix. i cant remember with raw milk but i think raw milk from guernseys and jerseys also helped clean the mouth.

100% grass fed, A1, ultra pasteurized and homogenized milk causes an odor in the mouth and white buildup in the tongue.
a non homogenized, A1 milk also caused the breath.
so homogenization isnt relevant, grass fed isnt

its either A2, or the pasteurization type. it seems low temp pasteurized milks, somehow dont cause the same buildup on tongue and poor breath

 

[Dr. B]

On the A1/A2 issue, I think the evidence is too weak for any conclusions. BCM-7 might or might not be an issue. There are plenty other opioids in milk and in other foods as well. I find it more likely that the industrial processing is the culprit, homogenization and pasteurization methods in this case. Not to mention other factors such as the animal feed etc. Personally I don't do well with homogenized and I was able to confirm this multiple times, including today with unhomogenized vs homogenized goat's milk (which is A2). BCM-7 could play a role too, maybe it's why cow's milk make me feel more sluggish both mentally and physically.

why would pasteurization be such an issue, its just light heating? like 161 degrees for 15 seconds?
organic, 100% grass fed, A2, non homogenized, are probably much much more important than the pasteurization level. and no added ingredients or vitamins

 

[Apple]

On the A1/A2 issue, I think the evidence is too weak for any conclusions. BCM-7 might or might not be an issue. There are plenty other opioids in milk and in other foods as well. I find it more likely that the industrial processing is the culprit, homogenization and pasteurization methods in this case. Not to mention other factors such as the animal feed etc. Personally I don't do well with homogenized and I was able to confirm this multiple times, including today with unhomogenized vs homogenized goat's milk (which is A2). BCM-7 could play a role too, maybe it's why cow's milk make me feel more sluggish both mentally and physically.

I used to drink lots of non-homogenized milk when I was a kid, I lived close to rural area. I always had a stomach ache from it. I had never been able to get used to it. (but I believed those big guys on the cover of magazines that milk was good and kept drinking it nontheless :)) )
Now that I found out about Peat I'm trying my luck just with common homogenized milk from the store and it is much easier to digest (because low fat I guess) but lactose is still the problem.
Homogenized lactose free milk solves the problem for me, no digestive issues.

 

[Dr. B]

On the A1/A2 issue, I think the evidence is too weak for any conclusions. BCM-7 might or might not be an issue. There are plenty other opioids in milk and in other foods as well. I find it more likely that the industrial processing is the culprit, homogenization and pasteurization methods in this case. Not to mention other factors such as the animal feed etc. Personally I don't do well with homogenized and I was able to confirm this multiple times, including today with unhomogenized vs homogenized goat's milk (which is A2). BCM-7 could play a role too, maybe it's why cow's milk make me feel more sluggish both mentally and physically.

mate thats the interesting thing, I dont think Peat's researched milk specifically that much, cuz,
on these three topics, homogenization, pasteurization, and A2 vs A1 he seems very loose, he doesnt think A2 is valuable, he doesnt think homogenization matters, and he doesnt think pasteurization matters much either,
I think the thing is these three things dont involve anything added to the milk, they are mechanical processes that change its structure a bit or just heat the milk, but I think he mainly focuses on the cows diet and living standards, hormones in the milk, added vitamins etc.
when i asked him about homogenization he said he doesnt think it matters much, and that the bile acids rearrange the fats
on dannys podcast he said pasteurization these days is just for a few seconds so it shouldnt alter or mess with the milk
and A2 vs A1 he supposedly said A2 is marketing and doesnt matter much
he personally gets raw milk from some local farm, but skims fat off of it and heats it on his own

 

[Dutchie]

I had someone from the Netherlands tell me that the only cows they have over there are A2 so all the milk they drink is A2, maybe this is true for other countries in Europe as well? A google search for Germany seems to say the same.

I had always wondered about this because people in the Netherlands and European countries for the most part tend to look a lot healthier when compared to the US and seem to have lowered serotonin - From most countries I've been to it seems that us in the USA seems to have the worst serotonin/indigestion/aggression issues I've seen, but our food supply is definitely largely compromised.

That is complete BS they told you....sorry.
Most cows here in The Netherlands give A1 milk.
I'm intolerant to A1 milk and can't drink cow milk bc of it.

 

[Rasaari]

I think raw milk is useful to try atleast, to see whether the additional gunk they put in is the culprit or whether bacterial overgrowth is the cause. The buildup of mucus and prostate issues come from bacterial issues, especially endotoxin. The milk could cause some irritation which leads to endotoxin absorption which is the real issue. Haidut has talked about how prostate enlargement would be caused by endotoxin and serotonin and recommended asker to clean gut or anti-serotonin stuff, like famotidine or cyproheptadine.

One gunk they can be adding in america (and possibly elsewhere) is silicon dioxide. Haidut has talked about this quite many times, and said that only few organic brands don´t have it, however was not willing to share which ones. He thought it might be due to the added vitamins containing it. I think in my country they dissolve the D in to seed oil, so I wonder if it would have silicon dioxide, however D isn´t mandated and organic milk doesn´t have added vitamins here. Haidut has also talked how a baby who was milk allergic was allergic to the added vitamin A.

Some people can be severely allergic to the A1 part in milk. There was a story on state run news about a kid who was severely allergic to A1 milk, which was ironic as her family were dairy farmers. Her skin issues went away with A2 milk and the family started breeding A2s. How could you even patent A2 milk as it is natural?

I have been using no-homo milk and I still get a lot of bacterial tongue thrush. Peat says its from small intestinal bacteria, and I agree, however I haven´t had much success clearing it as long as I drink milk. Amoxicillin and MB (antibacterial doses), camphosal, oregano oil diluted, seems to be effective in clearing my tongue if used long enough. Comparatively cephalexin isn´t effective so there is some spectrum that amoxicillin has over cephalexin. I think the issue is due to the pasteurization as many members report unpasteurized not giving them thrush and overall being easier to digest. I have yet to get my hands on raw milk, but I shall.

 

[JamesGatz]

I think raw milk is useful to try atleast, to see whether the additional gunk they put in is the culprit or whether bacterial overgrowth is the cause. The buildup of mucus and prostate issues come from bacterial issues, especially endotoxin. The milk could cause some irritation which leads to endotoxin absorption which is the real issue. Haidut has talked about how prostate enlargement would be caused by endotoxin and serotonin and recommended asker to clean gut or anti-serotonin stuff, like famotidine or cyproheptadine.


I have been using no-homo milk and I still get a lot of bacterial tongue thrush. Peat says its from small intestinal bacteria, and I agree, however I haven´t had much success clearing it as long as I drink milk.

I agree. Just tried eating the cheese again except I melted it completely then drank a bottle of mexican coke then ate some pineapple and finished off with carrot salad an hour later (my endotoxin/anti-inflammatory stack) - the reaction was still there but just barely - I'm definitely going to try out cypro because honestly the cheese is really good and a great metabolic boost, so I'm going to make a real endotoxin stack with cypro to eliminate this bad boy

Have you given A2 a try? I tried to make non-homo milk work for a long time, but it also gave me candida (white tongue) no matter what. A2 milk was the first milk I ever tried that did not make my tongue white or dirty whatsoever I would recommend trying that if you haven't

 

[Dr. B]

I think raw milk is useful to try atleast, to see whether the additional gunk they put in is the culprit or whether bacterial overgrowth is the cause. The buildup of mucus and prostate issues come from bacterial issues, especially endotoxin. The milk could cause some irritation which leads to endotoxin absorption which is the real issue. Haidut has talked about how prostate enlargement would be caused by endotoxin and serotonin and recommended asker to clean gut or anti-serotonin stuff, like famotidine or cyproheptadine.

One gunk they can be adding in america (and possibly elsewhere) is silicon dioxide. Haidut has talked about this quite many times, and said that only few organic brands don´t have it, however was not willing to share which ones. He thought it might be due to the added vitamins containing it. I think in my country they dissolve the D in to seed oil, so I wonder if it would have silicon dioxide, however D isn´t mandated and organic milk doesn´t have added vitamins here. Haidut has also talked how a baby who was milk allergic was allergic to the added vitamin A.

Some people can be severely allergic to the A1 part in milk. There was a story on state run news about a kid who was severely allergic to A1 milk, which was ironic as her family were dairy farmers. Her skin issues went away with A2 milk and the family started breeding A2s. How could you even patent A2 milk as it is natural?

I have been using no-homo milk and I still get a lot of bacterial tongue thrush. Peat says its from small intestinal bacteria, and I agree, however I haven´t had much success clearing it as long as I drink milk. Amoxicillin and MB (antibacterial doses), camphosal, oregano oil diluted, seems to be effective in clearing my tongue if used long enough. Comparatively cephalexin isn´t effective so there is some spectrum that amoxicillin has over cephalexin. I think the issue is due to the pasteurization as many members report unpasteurized not giving them thrush and overall being easier to digest. I have yet to get my hands on raw milk, but I shall.

interesting stuff mate thanks for posting.

the silicon dioxide isnt in many milks.
what we have found is almost and probably every single milk with added vitamins in the US contain polysorbate 80 as a emulsifier and propylene glycol as a preservative for the powder.
I think silica is an anti caking agent? so maybe some of the powders have silica. but polysorbate 80/propylene glycol are industry standard for the vitamins, every milk brand seems to be using them including whole foods store brand with added vitamins, wegmans, costco, and several others.
theres one brand here which used polysorb 80, propylene glycol, and sunflower oil. the oil amount is small. actually, if they were using seed or PUFA< it would be much better than propylene glycol or polysorbate 80. assuming the amount of the oil was just like a couple hundred milligrams similar to the

the reason this is needed is because of the vitamin storage mechanism. If the vitamins are held in a solid powder form, probably no preservatives are needed, similar to the supplement capsules. but anti caking agents may be used. I dont know what they would use for emulsifiers, im not sure if silica works as an emulsifier in liquid, i know polysorbate 80 and lecithins are used as emulsifiers.

theres probably only one or two vitamin packet companies in the US making these products. the label I saw, had the ingredients of water, propylene glycol, and polysorbate 80 with the word emulsifier in paranthesis next to polysorbate 80. propylene glycol is needed because it's a liquid mixture and they need to have a preservative. I bet you could probably use vitamin C or some other preservative instead of the propylene glycol which would be a lot safer? polysorbate 80 is the emulsifier, and I think you could use something else, im not sure what some good safe ones would be besides egg lecithin which nobody uses. some milk brands may be using carrageenan didnt Haidut say they had traces of carrageenan and silica?
He didn't test for polyosrbate 80 or propylene glycol, but those are what every brand is using like even whole foods.
the carrageenan/silica maybe possibly get into the milks if the milk plant produces flavored milks? every chocolate/sweetened milk ive seen on the market has carrageenan, except ironically, 7-11s store brand "7-11 select" brand, which actually does offer organic milks. their organic chocolate milk is actually the best of any chocolate milks ive seen, besides the family farmstead brand. the 7-11 organic chocolate milk contains no gums or fillers besides gellan gum. I think theres one brand which uses tapioca starch as the filler. both these are better than carrageenan, acacia gum and guar gum for sure.

the A1 milk allergy is interesting, and I suspect the A1 cows are diseased in some way. Some of the websites say that any white cows milk is inferior in quality and nutrients and is a result of mass producing/factory farming. apparently, cows in the past were always A2 and never had the solid white color you see today, rather had the golden or golden yellow color you see with guernsey and jersey milks. the A1 is supposedly a "genetic mutation" and who knows if it was because the cows were consuming feces, tons of PUFA, other mammalian meat or other cows meat or something else. cancer is also a "genetic mutation" so its better to not consume anything labelled that way.

some websites claim pasteurized milk is responsible for autoimmune diseases and many other issues. some sites claim A1 milk is responsible for those. it's hard to say because those same sites are selling raw milk or A2 milk of their own... i dont think the raw vs not raw makes a difference in terms of danger, but A1 vs A2 does make sense.

Btw guernseys/jerseys apparently are confirmed to have more nutrients than the typical holstein milk. they also do have more beta carotene though, which is supposedly what gives it the yellow color.

the non homogenized nature of the milk isn't related to the oral bacteria thrush or mouth odor, but the type of cow, or the milk being A2 vs A1, or the type of pasteurization definitely makes a difference. when I drink the organic, A2, 100% grass fed, non homogenized low temp pasteurized milk, it causes minimal to no digestive discomfort and actually seems to clean the tongue out, and doesnt cause a mouth odor or tongue buildup. i dont remember how things went with the raw milk
Rays mentioned milk and any of the saturated fatty acids have antibacterial/antibiotic benefits. it seems cooking some of these fats like via pasteurization could affect their antibacterial effects. Since its the A2, low temp pasteurized, jersey cow milk that gives me the best cleaning effect. there's also a thick creamline in the milk, I think that solid block of creme going into your mouth could help clear things up whereas if the milk was homogenized, there may not be as strong an effect since the fat is perfectly diluted into the milk. Instead, jersey milk there's a big glob of fat on top of the milk.

 

[Dr. B]

I haven't - it's hard to get my hands on raw milk where I live - not impossible, but definitely really out of my way - I think I am going to go out of the way to try raw milk as I really do want to get to the bottom of this - the milk I try is 50/50 (from cow's) - but finding cheese from cow's that is A2 is difficult so I planned on buying goat cheese to test if maybe I'm reacting negatively to full A2.

mate what do you mean by 50/50 milk? how did you get that milk?

That is complete BS they told you....sorry.
Most cows here in The Netherlands give A1 milk.
I'm intolerant to A1 milk and can't drink cow milk bc of it.

which milks have you tried? dutch belt, brown swiss, ayrshire, milking shorthorn, illawatta, jersey, guernsey?

I agree. Just tried eating the cheese again except I melted it completely then drank a bottle of mexican coke then ate some pineapple and finished off with carrot salad an hour later (my endotoxin/anti-inflammatory stack) - the reaction was still there but just barely - I'm definitely going to try out cypro because honestly the cheese is really good and a great metabolic boost, so I'm going to make a real endotoxin stack with cypro to eliminate this bad boy

Have you given A2 a try? I tried to make non-homo milk work for a long time, but it also gave me candida (white tongue) no matter what. A2 milk was the first milk I ever tried that did not make my tongue white or dirty whatsoever I would recommend trying that if you haven't

thats interesting so cooking helps? if the cooking aspect helps maybe with A1 milk, ultra pasteurizing the milk helps digest it even more? since its higher temps?
cheese probably boosts metabolic rate so much since it provides the saturated fat and the casein protein but without any liquid? you could maybe get a similar effect from casein protein powder or whey protein powder especially if you ate the powder straight out the jar instead of making it into a shake? someone else commented eating dried milk powder instead of adding water into it made their temps go up much more. liquids seem to have an anti thyroid or temperature lowering effect. so i guess it means the more liquids you have, solid foods are better?

have you tried eating gelatin at all, like straight out the jar without mixing in water?

 

[Dutchie]

mate what do you mean by 50/50 milk? how did you get that milk?



which milks have you tried? dutch belt, brown swiss, ayrshire, milking shorthorn, illawatta, jersey, guernsey?



thats interesting so cooking helps? if the cooking aspect helps maybe with A1 milk, ultra pasteurizing the milk helps digest it even more? since its higher temps?
cheese probably boosts metabolic rate so much since it provides the saturated fat and the casein protein but without any liquid? you could maybe get a similar effect from casein protein powder or whey protein powder especially if you ate the powder straight out the jar instead of making it into a shake? someone else commented eating dried milk powder instead of adding water into it made their temps go up much more. liquids seem to have an anti thyroid or temperature lowering effect. so i guess it means the more liquids you have, solid foods are better?

have you tried eating gelatin at all, like straight out the jar without mixing in water?

I've tried several cow milk (brands) and they all caused issues bc they're A1.
These days,slowly experimenting,when I have milk, I stick to goats milk.
I'll try Buffalo and sheepmilk,if I can get my hands on it. Maybe that's what the person meant....that all Buffalo is A2.

 

[Michael Mohn]

I find goat and sheep milk more problematic due to their high whey content. I tried A2 milk and it might have been the brand but the taste was chalky and it smelled like cow. I find normal cow milk and cheese just fine. Milk indigestion can have lots of problems like additives, low grade infections or low blood sugar that have nothing to do with A2/A1 milk. This caso-morphine argument seems weak as this should have an influence on all humans consuming A1 milk.

 

[Dr. B]

I find goat and sheep milk more problematic due to their high whey content. I tried A2 milk and it might have been the brand but the taste was chalky and it smelled like cow. I find normal cow milk and cheese just fine. Milk indigestion can have lots of problems like additives, low grade infections or low blood sugar that have nothing to do with A2/A1 milk. This caso-morphine argument seems weak as this should have an influence on all humans consuming A1 milk.

wouldnt it affect people depending on metabolic rate
why dont you like whey isnt whey supposed to be much easier digesting than casein, why do sheep and goat milk give more trouble

 

[Rasaari]

@Mr.Bollox Ahh, the polysorbates, I didn't even think about someone adding that to milk let alone to food. Here, if they add D they add the dissolved oil before homogenization so it spreads out evenly with the milkfat.

Silicon is an anticaking agent yes, and I think if they use powdered vitamins that would most likely show up at least in trace amounts, I cant think of another reason why it would be there. And if I remember correctly, some milks did have carrageenan. Here also all the chocolatemilks have carrageenan. I dont think you can get it to be so smooth without something.

Although I acknowledge that random mutations exist, I see genes dependent on the environment, and they mutate due to need to mutate. I just dont see why through randomness most cows would become A1. There is no need.

What do you think is behind the decreased oral bacteria from A2 milk? A2 cows being less sick and having better bacteria or antibacterial peptides? The A1 casein being bad to digest thus feeding bacteria?

Have you given A2 a try? I tried to make non-homo milk work for a long time, but it also gave me candida (white tongue) no matter what. A2 milk was the first milk I ever tried that did not make my tongue white or dirty whatsoever I would recommend trying that if you haven't

I haven't yet and Im definitely going to, have to first source it as it isnt available in the grocery store. The white tongue isnt candida, its bacteria.

 

[Apple]

So does the A2 milk give you side effects or not? Or only when you add casein?
If you react negatively to the A2 milk, chances are that you're still getting some kind of immune and inflammatory response from it. Which would indicate that it's not necessarily the casein, but probably something else.
As a side note, if you have low-grade inflammation, then you can develop intolerances to almost anything. For example, people who drink A1/A2 milk are more likely to experience lactose intolerance, which goes away when they switch to A2 milk.

Do you drink A1 milk/cheese or you think it is bad for most people ?
How much milk do you drink per day ?

 

[Hans]

Do you drink A1 milk/cheese or you think it is bad for most people ?
How much milk do you drink per day ?

I drink between 3-4L of cow's milk. They don't specify so it's most likely an A1/A2 mix. I have no problems with it.
If someone has sensitive digestion or has inflammation while also drinking milk, I think it's a good experiment to switch to A2 milk and see if things improve. But not everyone is sensitive to the A1 or benefit from switching to A2.