Increased Body Odor == Better Liver Function?

[redsun]

I’d like to chime in and mention that I do not think body odor is a sign of anything good, and reflects an inappropriate diet or lifestyle situation.

Ray has mentioned that healthy people smell odorless. A simple though experiment supports this conclusion. Would you rather be intimate with someone who smells bad with nasty armpit, mouth, and genital BO, or someone who smells/tastes pleasant. I think this BO is a reflection of internal health.

Today I noticed an increase in sebum and foul BO from eating a steak. Luckily watermelon and coconut milk were able to neutralize the smell, but I take this as ruminant meat is no good for me. I will be experimenting with seafood to see if I have the same experience.

Coincidentally, when my armpits and dry, skin is baby smooth, and I have no BO, I feel very good, very sociable, positive, energetic. When I get wet armpits/BO, I feel more anxious and nervous. This is independent of environmental stressors. I could be sitting in my room with the fan blasting on me and have wet armpits, BO, and have anxious thoughts creep in about my life and where I’m headed.

I’ve found that eating coconuts makes my skin and hair dramatically less greasy, and feel very pleasant, as well as dry up my armpits and BO.

As @baccheion mentioned before awhile ago, androgens increase sebum production. Testosterone can increase musk smell. Steak being high in zinc and selenium needed for T3 and especially the zinc required for T conversion. I think it doesnt say much that watermelon and coconut milk can somehow get rid of all these supposed negative smells. There is little to nothing in watermelon or coconut "milk" that feeds the thyroid or hormone production in general except carbs. Micros are terribly, terribly low.

 

[blabla123]

High adrenaline+cortisol has a distinct unpleasant smell, often noticeable if you slam a lot of strong coffee in the morning on an empty stomach.

 

[foodandtheworld]

I had a drastic reduction in armpit sweat odor after taking minocycline fairly briefly. I regained it a bit later (though nowhere as bad as my pre-Peat days) but it was greatly reduced again, this time after I donated blood. So probably something to do with bacteria/iron. Minocycline probably hits both: Iron Results After 2 Weeks Of Doxycycline:

 

[brix]

I had a drastic reduction in armpit sweat odor after taking minocycline fairly briefly. I regained it a bit later (though nowhere as bad as my pre-Peat days) but it was greatly reduced again, this time after I donated blood. So probably something to do with bacteria/iron. Minocycline probably hits both: Iron Results After 2 Weeks Of Doxycycline:

How much were you taking and for how long? Have some on hand and think it might be time to try another round for sebhorrea and BO/sweat/musk.

 

[foodandtheworld]

First time for a few days.
Months later for a different experiment I used them for a second time for a little under two weeks. Each time I used on average 100mg daily.

 

[Runenight201]

As @baccheion mentioned before awhile ago, androgens increase sebum production. Testosterone can increase musk smell. Steak being high in zinc and selenium needed for T3 and especially the zinc required for T conversion. I think it doesnt say much that watermelon and coconut milk can somehow get rid of all these supposed negative smells. There is little to nothing in watermelon or coconut "milk" that feeds the thyroid or hormone production in general except carbs. Micros are terribly, terribly low.

I think there's more to food than just it's micro nutritional content. The fact that different fruits taste differently suggest to me that there's different compounds in them that aren't found in nutritional databases that have different effects on the body.

Carbs are also crucially important for thyroid, and so it really is an understatement to say that there's only carbs in watermelon. I'm seeing that sugar, in fruit and even in it's pure refined form, are very important for optimal energy production. Meat is great, but eating so much meat that one starts to smell bad, or start getting cystic acne, which has happened to me every time I eat too much, are clearly signs that something very bad is happening. It's very unpleasant to look at someone with cystic acne on their face, and also very unpleasant to be around someone who has foul BO. It's also not a coincidence that I would feel very bad while exhibiting these signs, and not from a psychological perspective, although that's certainly very understandable, but from a physical, low energy, agitated, egotistical perspective.

 

[golder]

Anyone stumbled on any new thoughts/ideas/experiences with regards to body odour. Keen on hearing any new ideas! Thanks :)

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Anyone stumbled on any new thoughts/ideas/experiences with regards to body odour.

Yeah. I went on a raw fruit & vegetable diet while taking a boatload of herbs for about 8 weeks. 85% of my calories were fruit, 12% from salad, and 3% from the disaccharides in coffee-- My only cheat was coffee every 2nd or 3rd day with a syrup, honey, or coconut sugar added. A
a
massive intestinal purge was over, my bowel movements became no-wipe and effortless and didn't smell bad. My sense of smell improved and I didn't have any body odor or foul breath.

I added in rice and beans as the first cooked food... Still didn't eat it everyday. About a week after that I added meat in.

By the end of the first day I added meat again, my bowel movements smelled awful. By the 3rd day my body odor was back, 5th day my breath smelled bad randomly for seemingly no reason, and by the 7th day I lost an acquired ability to smell + feel when people had protein & starch for lunch.

It's been over a month since then and I'm still eating cooked food once per day... But my health has dramatically improved regardless.

Basically... Eat only raw fruit + veg, clean the colon and you'll start to smell pleasant instead of... Whatever people tend to smell like. The putrefaction of meat is a very real dilemma.

 

[Runenight201]

Yeah. I went on a raw fruit & vegetable diet while taking a boatload of herbs for about 8 weeks. 85% of my calories were fruit, 12% from salad, and 3% from the disaccharides in coffee-- My only cheat was coffee every 2nd or 3rd day with a syrup, honey, or coconut sugar added. A
a
massive intestinal purge was over, my bowel movements became no-wipe and effortless and didn't smell bad. My sense of smell improved and I didn't have any body odor or foul breath.

I added in rice and beans as the first cooked food... Still didn't eat it everyday. About a week after that I added meat in.

By the end of the first day I added meat again, my bowel movements smelled awful. By the 3rd day my body odor was back, 5th day my breath smelled bad randomly for seemingly no reason, and by the 7th day I lost an acquired ability to smell + feel when people had protein & starch for lunch.

It's been over a month since then and I'm still eating cooked food once per day... But my health has dramatically improved regardless.

Basically... Eat only raw fruit + veg, clean the colon and you'll start to smell pleasant instead of... Whatever people tend to smell like. The putrefaction of meat is a very real dilemma.

What type of fruits do you eat and where do you get them? Any strategies for getting the ripest fruits?

 

[Jennifer]

Yeah. I went on a raw fruit & vegetable diet while taking a boatload of herbs for about 8 weeks. 85% of my calories were fruit, 12% from salad, and 3% from the disaccharides in coffee-- My only cheat was coffee every 2nd or 3rd day with a syrup, honey, or coconut sugar added. A
a
massive intestinal purge was over, my bowel movements became no-wipe and effortless and didn't smell bad. My sense of smell improved and I didn't have any body odor or foul breath.

I added in rice and beans as the first cooked food... Still didn't eat it everyday. About a week after that I added meat in.

By the end of the first day I added meat again, my bowel movements smelled awful. By the 3rd day my body odor was back, 5th day my breath smelled bad randomly for seemingly no reason, and by the 7th day I lost an acquired ability to smell + feel when people had protein & starch for lunch.

It's been over a month since then and I'm still eating cooked food once per day... But my health has dramatically improved regardless.

Basically... Eat only raw fruit + veg, clean the colon and you'll start to smell pleasant instead of... Whatever people tend to smell like. The putrefaction of meat is a very real dilemma.

That has been my experience, and I've heard many similar accounts from people who go raw vegan/fruitarian. I was able to add shellfish and eggs back into my diet without any noticeable odor, but the feeling in my big toe that I had finally regained while eating a fruitarian diet was lost again. I'm back off animal protein and the feeling in my toe returned. Crazy! I suspect the heightened sense of smell is because my gut stays clear and inflammation low so my nasal passages stay clear -- anytime I consume something that causes bloating or irritates my intestines, at least one sinus gets blocked. I eat cooked food once a day also and thankfully, I've been able to maintain the benefits. It's nice never needing deodorant and waking up in the morning with a clean, hydrated mouth/no morning breath.

 

[Indicatrice]

Yeah. I went on a raw fruit & vegetable diet while taking a boatload of herbs for about 8 weeks. 85% of my calories were fruit, 12% from salad, and 3% from the disaccharides in coffee-- My only cheat was coffee every 2nd or 3rd day with a syrup, honey, or coconut sugar added. A
a
massive intestinal purge was over, my bowel movements became no-wipe and effortless and didn't smell bad. My sense of smell improved and I didn't have any body odor or foul breath.

I added in rice and beans as the first cooked food... Still didn't eat it everyday. About a week after that I added meat in.

By the end of the first day I added meat again, my bowel movements smelled awful. By the 3rd day my body odor was back, 5th day my breath smelled bad randomly for seemingly no reason, and by the 7th day I lost an acquired ability to smell + feel when people had protein & starch for lunch.

It's been over a month since then and I'm still eating cooked food once per day... But my health has dramatically improved regardless.

Basically... Eat only raw fruit + veg, clean the colon and you'll start to smell pleasant instead of... Whatever people tend to smell like. The putrefaction of meat is a very real dilemma.

This is strange, when I was on a raw milk + meat diet I could eat between 500 and 750 grams of meat in one sitting and I felt that I digested it extremely quickly, and I produced almost no waste from it since my bowel movements were very infrequent, just one every 2 to 3 days; also my stomach never felt full even eating such a large meal. Also, since my digestion was so good, I don't recall to ever have farted during this period, being able to go for more than a week without farting even once was quite amazing...

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Twohandsondeck Yes, learned this from the Carnivores. Conventional beef fat is to be avoided, has lots of toxins. Always buy quality, pasture-raised meat if eating fatty.
Lean cuts are fine either way.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Indicatrice Yes, meat + animal fat digests superbly IF not combined in a diet with carbs / plants / fiber.

 

[baccheion]

Yeah. I went on a raw fruit & vegetable diet while taking a boatload of herbs for about 8 weeks. 85% of my calories were fruit, 12% from salad, and 3% from the disaccharides in coffee-- My only cheat was coffee every 2nd or 3rd day with a syrup, honey, or coconut sugar added. A
a
massive intestinal purge was over, my bowel movements became no-wipe and effortless and didn't smell bad. My sense of smell improved and I didn't have any body odor or foul breath.

I added in rice and beans as the first cooked food... Still didn't eat it everyday. About a week after that I added meat in.

By the end of the first day I added meat again, my bowel movements smelled awful. By the 3rd day my body odor was back, 5th day my breath smelled bad randomly for seemingly no reason, and by the 7th day I lost an acquired ability to smell + feel when people had protein & starch for lunch.

It's been over a month since then and I'm still eating cooked food once per day... But my health has dramatically improved regardless.

Basically... Eat only raw fruit + veg, clean the colon and you'll start to smell pleasant instead of... Whatever people tend to smell like. The putrefaction of meat is a very real dilemma.

Did you balance meat with calcium (from collards or something)? Do you have signs of low stomach acid? What was the meat combined with? When not eating meat, did you try (grass-fed organic) milk? Did it add back issues? One approach is getting only 100 calories from meat (in the form of seafood/shellfish).

 

[milkbasedvegan]

How not to have any odor IME

- never combining sugars and proteins (so dairy is out, it makes me stink)
- “pure” sugars and fats don’t cause anything. The combination of both is fine as well. I liked having a banana for breakfast and a muffin for lunch today!
- fatty protein as a stand-alone is always fine. I could eat 2 pounds of beef in one sitting and no BO. Throw some soft cheese on top and I’ll go musky

 

[Jennifer]

How not to have any odor IME

- never combining sugars and proteins (so dairy is out, it makes me stink)
- “pure” sugars and fats don’t cause anything. The combination of both is fine as well. I liked having a banana for breakfast and a muffin for lunch today!
- fatty protein as a stand-alone is always fine. I could eat 2 pounds of beef in one sitting and no BO. Throw some soft cheese on top and I’ll go musky

Have you noticed if digestion and elimination are a factor for you? I suspect they are with me because when I followed a carnivore diet (pastured meat, eggs and wild-caught seafood) a decade ago, I developed an underarm odor/musk and constipation -- I was only eliminating once every day and a half to two days. The underarm odor was even more pronounced when I followed an all milk diet/the milk cure and I was only eliminating every few days. I combine whole fruit and/or fruit juice with bean curd and have absolutely no odor, but I digest the two extremely well and eliminate after every meal.

 

[lvysaur]

Basically... Eat only raw fruit + veg, clean the colon and you'll start to smell pleasant instead of... Whatever people tend to smell like. The putrefaction of meat is a very real dilemma.

Yeah, most people don't even understand what putrefaction is.

However, I would say dairy is acceptable as well. I've experienced the same lack of odor, but on a diet heavy in milk and sugar. Lactose has also been shown to decrease putrefaction.

I was eating meat, but only 3 oz (a fifth pound) every other day. IMO eating any more than this requires a shift in metabolism, probably towards an intermittent fasting type plan. Otherwise you'll get putrefaction.

Also IMO, you need to have a very particular type of hunger in order to digest meat properly. It needs to feel ravenous and high intensity. Slightly less intensity means you can only digest starch at that time. Even less intensity than that means only sugars/milk.

 

[milkboi]

Yeah, most people don't even understand what putrefaction is.

However, I would say dairy is acceptable as well. I've experienced the same thing, but on a diet heavy in milk and sugar.

I was eating meat, but only 3 oz (a fifth pound) every other day.

I remember my carnivore days.... disgusting, foul smelling body odor

 

[redsun]

I remember my carnivore days.... disgusting, foul smelling body odor

Bet its the extra dht from increased iron intake. Iron foods always makes me feel more "androgenic" but in the end I also stink more and sooner. I never got strong odor on carnivore, but imo I attribute that to not eating much red meat, it was mostly chicken, cheese, milk for me. I also (stupidly at the time) was taking zinc 50mg a night most nights that likely reduced iron absorption somewhat as well as reducing DHT considerably considering I already got plenty of zinc on carnivore.

Yeah, most people don't even understand what putrefaction is.

However, I would say dairy is acceptable as well. I've experienced the same lack of odor, but on a diet heavy in milk and sugar. Lactose has also been shown to decrease putrefaction.

I was eating meat, but only 3 oz (a fifth pound) every other day. IMO eating any more than this requires a shift in metabolism, probably towards an intermittent fasting type plan. Otherwise you'll get putrefaction.

Also IMO, you need to have a very particular type of hunger in order to digest meat properly. It needs to feel ravenous and high intensity. Slightly less intensity means you can only digest starch at that time. Even less intensity than that means only sugars/milk.

Meat does not rot in your intestines. I am quite surprised this myth still holds. Virtually every part of meat is 100% digestable and absorbable and creates very little waste whether its lean meat or fatty meat. Same goes for all animal products.

Have you noticed if digestion and elimination are a factor for you? I suspect they are with me because when I followed a carnivore diet (pastured meat, eggs and wild-caught seafood) a decade ago, I developed an underarm odor/musk and constipation -- I was only eliminating once every day and a half to two days. The underarm odor was even more pronounced when I followed an all milk diet/the milk cure and I was only eliminating every few days. I combine whole fruit and/or fruit juice with bean curd and have absolutely no odor, but I digest the two extremely well and eliminate after every meal.

That's not constipation. Why would you have bowel movements when there is virtually no waste from animal foods? Completely normal on carnivore. I never though of it as a good thing to have to have a bowel movement every meal, means your insides are clogged up.

 

[Jennifer]

That's not constipation. Why would you have bowel movements when there is virtually no waste from animal foods? Completely normal on carnivore. I never though of it as a good thing to have to have a bowel movement every meal, means your insides are clogged up.

IME, there absolutely can be waste from animal foods, especially with dairy since as Ray has even pointed out, its very nature is bulk forming. From the Ray Peat email exchanges:

"They aren't necessary [FIBER], for example milk supports abundant bacterial growth that creates bulk, but when there are digestive and hormonal problems because of bad intestinal flora, the fibers of carrot and bamboo shoots have a disinfecting action. The carrots must be raw for that effect." RP

Despite three days of nothing but water following the end of my time on a carnivore diet, I was eliminating a lot of backed up waste and feeling relief from constipation, something I'm all too familiar with. I'm not the only one who shares a similar experience which again is why I asked if digestion is a factor with body odor. Does someone who has a strong pancreas, thyroid, adrenals etc. have better enzyme and stomach acid production to break down animal protein, as well as stronger peristalsis for elimination, so that less food is sitting in the intestines feeding microorganisms, stressing the liver etc. and possibly causing an odor as a result? We have multiple people here who share a different experience with the same food -- some get an odor with dairy while others don't. Given I had a more pronounced odor while consuming nothing but milk, red meat wasn't a factor in my case.

Unless I were to fast or drink nothing but filtered juice for an extended period of time, there will always be food in my intestines so I'd rather be eliminating multiple times a day than holding on to it for days. The latter was not normal or healthy for me but if you say it is for you, I believe you. You know your body best. :)