Increased Body Odor == Better Liver Function?

baccheion

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IME, there absolutely can be waste from animal foods, especially with dairy since as Ray has even pointed out, its very nature is bulk forming. From the Ray Peat email exchanges:

"They aren't necessary [FIBER], for example milk supports abundant bacterial growth that creates bulk, but when there are digestive and hormonal problems because of bad intestinal flora, the fibers of carrot and bamboo shoots have a disinfecting action. The carrots must be raw for that effect." RP

Despite three days of nothing but water following the end of my time on a carnivore diet, I was eliminating a lot of backed up waste and feeling relief from constipation, something I'm all too familiar with. I'm not the only one who shares a similar experience which again is why I asked if digestion is a factor with body odor. Does someone who has a strong pancreas, thyroid, adrenals etc. have better enzyme and stomach acid production to break down animal protein, as well as stronger peristalsis for elimination, so that less food is sitting in the intestines feeding microorganisms, stressing the liver etc. and possibly causing an odor as a result? We have multiple people here who share a different experience with the same food -- some get an odor with dairy while others don't. Given I had a more pronounced odor while consuming nothing but milk, red meat wasn't a factor in my case.

Unless I were to fast or drink nothing but filtered juice for an extended period of time, there will always be food in my intestines so I'd rather be eliminating multiple times a day than holding on to it for days. The latter was not normal or healthy for me but if you say it is for you, I believe you. You know your body best. :)
You can check that via supplementing enzymes (and HCl) for a while.

Stool is mostly water, dead bacteria, and discarded stomach lining. And fiber.
 

lvysaur

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Virtually every part of meat is 100% digestable
meaningless statement, it's only digestible if you have enough digestive secretions to actually do so.

Also it seems like every food leaves some "residue", and that nothing is digested completely. If it was, the colon would be germ-free. With this in mind, it would be far more dangerous to overeat meat than to overeat other products (though eating in the absence of a physical urge should be discouraged in general)

I also think that on a carb-based diet, large amounts of meat cannot be tolerated. I think there is a trade off between the di/polysaccharidases of the small intestine, and the acid/proteases of the stomach and intestine. It makes sense that the more you stick to one type of food, the less you will be able to digest the other.
 
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redsun

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meaningless statement, it's only digestible if you have enough digestive secretions to actually do so.

Also it seems like every food leaves some "residue", and that nothing is digested completely. If it was, the colon would be germ-free.

Thats why I said virtually. Everything creates waste but meat and animal foods is the least by far.

meaningless statement, it's only digestible if you have enough digestive secretions to actually do so.
Uh... yeh. Which is the case with every food basically. How is this exclusive to meat?
 

redsun

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I also think that on a carb-based diet, large amounts of meat cannot be tolerated. I think there is a trade off between the di/polysaccharidases of the small intestine, and the acid/proteases of the stomach and intestine. It makes sense that the more you stick to one type of food, the less you will be able to digest the other.

Of course, because a carb-based diet will use zinc while not repleting it as it should. You need zinc for protein digesting enzymes. You easily lose the taste for protein as you become more zinc deficient.
 

lvysaur

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Of course, because a carb-based diet will use zinc while not repleting it as it should. You need zinc for protein digesting enzymes.
Why do you think that?
 

Jennifer

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Thanks for the suggestion, @baccheion. :) I've used enzymes and HCl in the past. I was put on them when I unknowingly had gastritis from an untreated gut infection I had for years because my test results weren't read correctly, and they only further wrecked my gut so I'm hesitant to try them again -- my gut was in such bad shape that I was eliminating whole, chewed up pieces of meat. I digest shellfish well, it's just land meat I still struggle a little with and I don't want to consume it anyway.
 
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Amazing that people think meat has the capacity to undergo “putrefaction”. It’s a 3 second google search to verify false information.

Does Meat Rot In Your Colon? No. What Does? Beans, Grains, and Vegetables! -- Sott.net

dairy is different. Casein is an exogenous opioid like compound and is harder to break down. Besides, I think drinking protein doesn’t let them sit long enough in the stomach where pepsin should break it down. Amino acids require specific pH and temperatures to be digested.

It is also very possible that if some experience BO issues on meat, their stomach acid is low for instance.

lastly, high protein intakes (especially if at once) are tougher to break down than pulsed intakes. The OMAD / 1lb every 12 hours leads to massive protein dumps.

since animal protein is far more bioavailable than plant protein i’d Stick to 70-100grams TOPS daily for a start and go from there. I highly doubt that a high carb high fat low protein diet (think 45-45-10%) leads to BO
 

redsun

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Why do you think that?

All carb sources are poor zinc sources in terms of quantity and bioavailability to my knowledge. So if you were to rely heavily on carbs in the form of plants (starch, fruits, vegetables) or sugars like honey and cane sugar your zinc intake would be low and so would your absorption. But zinc is necessary for carbohydrate metabolism. Protein metabolism also demands zinc, but animal proteins for the most part (chicken being exempt) provide a good amount of zinc that is also bioavailable while basically any plant food does not.

Carb based does not necessarily mean vegan though but if you do a lower animal protein diet (which is what I assume you mean by carb based) it would be a good idea to at least reach the RDA in zinc from animals foods that are dense in it like oysters to provide enough bioavailable zinc. Red meat may work depends on the cuts since some cuts are higher in zinc than others. I personally don't count the zinc I get from plants really because of the lack of bioavailability and the low quantity to begin with.
 

baccheion

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meaningless statement, it's only digestible if you have enough digestive secretions to actually do so.

Also it seems like every food leaves some "residue", and that nothing is digested completely. If it was, the colon would be germ-free. With this in mind, it would be far more dangerous to overeat meat than to overeat other products (though eating in the absence of a physical urge should be discouraged in general)

I also think that on a carb-based diet, large amounts of meat cannot be tolerated. I think there is a trade off between the di/polysaccharidases of the small intestine, and the acid/proteases of the stomach and intestine. It makes sense that the more you stick to one type of food, the less you will be able to digest the other.

Amazing that people think meat has the capacity to undergo “putrefaction”. It’s a 3 second google search to verify false information.

Does Meat Rot In Your Colon? No. What Does? Beans, Grains, and Vegetables! -- Sott.net

dairy is different. Casein is an exogenous opioid like compound and is harder to break down. Besides, I think drinking protein doesn’t let them sit long enough in the stomach where pepsin should break it down. Amino acids require specific pH and temperatures to be digested.

It is also very possible that if some experience BO issues on meat, their stomach acid is low for instance.

lastly, high protein intakes (especially if at once) are tougher to break down than pulsed intakes. The OMAD / 1lb every 12 hours leads to massive protein dumps.

since animal protein is far more bioavailable than plant protein i’d Stick to 70-100grams TOPS daily for a start and go from there. I highly doubt that a high carb high fat low protein diet (think 45-45-10%) leads to BO
Is this due to improper food combining, though? That is, combining alkaline-preferring carbs (rice, potatoes, etc) with acid-preferring meats and (sour) fruits? Raw egg yolks, greens, olive oil, butter, etc are said to be neutral.

For example, lactose digests better at a lower pH. Higher pH results in enzyme release (eg, trypsin) that blunts the rise of lactase. The small intestines get more alkaline as one moves away from the stomach. Maybe that's why sour/acid fruits aid milk digestion: they prefer and create an acid environment and also include fructose/sucrose.
 
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What type of fruits do you eat and where do you get them? Any strategies for getting the ripest fruits?

Darker, brighter, and softer fruits are generally more ripe. Any appropriately ripe fruit will taste "as sweet as honey." I live in Florida and eat mostly red grapes, navel oranges, and occasionally peaches, nectarines, apples, plums, kiwis, and grapefruit.

but the feeling in my big toe that I had finally regained while eating a fruitarian diet was lost again. I'm back off animal protein and the feeling in my toe returned. Crazy!

That's nutty, you reminded me that I've the same problem in my left big toe specifically and that I experienced the exact same phenomenon. Feeling returns with less animal protein and more raw fruit + veg.

This is strange, when I was on a raw milk + meat diet I could eat between 500 and 750 grams of meat in one sitting and I felt that I digested it extremely quickly, and I produced almost no waste from it since my bowel movements were very infrequent, just one every 2 to 3 days; also my stomach never felt full even eating such a large meal. Also, since my digestion was so good, I don't recall to ever have farted during this period, being able to go for more than a week without farting even once was quite amazing...

I've never heard such an optimistic take on chronic constipation. There's waste, my friend. I assure you, there is waste.

Lean cuts are fine either way.

I agree with this.

Did you balance meat with calcium (from collards or something)? Do you have signs of low stomach acid? What was the meat combined with? When not eating meat, did you try (grass-fed organic) milk? Did it add back issues?

I had undigested carbohydrates in my stool indicating a pancreatic insufficiency... Hard to say if stomach acid was low or not. Possibly, but proper food combination is the most important factor to avoid problems associated with low stomach acid, in my opinion.

Milk has always given me issues, I don't even want to mess with it at this point. Maybe far into the future I will tamper with it again.

I didn't balance it with calcium, but I did make a point to eat it with a lot of iceberg lettuce (soft leaves = less cellulose) to help lower the glycemic response and cushion it through the system. Eating meat with lettuce prevents the insulin spike that makes me tired if consuming (fatty) meat in isolation.

Balancing the methionine with appropriate amounts of glycine from the green great lakes collagen can helps considerably.

However, I would say dairy is acceptable as well. I've experienced the same lack of odor, but on a diet heavy in milk and sugar. Lactose has also been shown to decrease putrefaction.

I was eating meat, but only 3 oz (a fifth pound) every other day. IMO eating any more than this requires a shift in metabolism, probably towards an intermittent fasting type plan. Otherwise you'll get putrefaction.

Also IMO, you need to have a very particular type of hunger in order to digest meat properly. It needs to feel ravenous and high intensity. Slightly less intensity means you can only digest starch at that time. Even less intensity than that means only sugars/milk.

Interesting point about lactose, never heard that before... Not sure why that would be the case, but I'm open minded.

I agree that there's something to refraining from meat unless physically fatigued... But then again I've found that a "craving" for meat is actually a far cry of the adrenals for being overtaxed. If I workout too much, jerk off too much, or drink too much coffee, meat becomes much more appealing. Essentially, it's an adrenal tonic of preformed steroid hormones and amino acids (that lend themselves as neurotransmitters) which give the adrenal glands a break from needing to create these things. A deficiency of them causes the impulse to consume meat, but I believe this can be satiated with raw vegetables and sprouted beans, it just takes longer to get back to baseline where meat is an immediate medicine in these ways, so-to-speak.
 

lvysaur

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Interesting point about lactose, never heard that before... Not sure why that would be the case, but I'm open minded.
It's in a study from the early 1900s. Can't remember the name, but it was all about putrefactive vs. fermentative bacteria.

It also feels like milk and meat don't mix very well. I accidentally went very low milk for a few weeks, and it changed my reaction to meat. I felt good, but in a different way.
 

Jennifer

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That's nutty, you reminded me that I've the same problem in my left big toe specifically and that I experienced the exact same phenomenon. Feeling returns with less animal protein and more raw fruit + veg.
Funny, it's my left toe too.
 
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I've never heard such an optimistic take on chronic constipation. There's waste, my friend. I assure you, there is waste.

that’s very true on a plant based diet. TONS of waste. Making it a nice wasting diet.

On a meat based diet, digestion is about 99% happening in the small intestine and you’re left with dog sized poops every other day. That’s waste, not constipation. We don’t want to feed our bacteria and the gas they produce
 

Indicatrice

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I've never heard such an optimistic take on chronic constipation. There's waste, my friend. I assure you, there is waste.

What is constipation though? Is it simply infrequent bowel movements? If I never felt uncomfortable in the abdomen/gut, how is that even bad? All the ex vegans and carnivores make fun of vegans being fart machines and having to ***t more than once a day.
 

Markus

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Whenever my colon and liver is congested, I get foul smelling body odor - especially in my left armpit. It usually clears within minutes after doing a coffee enema.
 
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Funny, it's my left toe too.

I think it might be a precursor to gout. My dad has it anyhow and it usually starts as an acidic accumulation of the big toe. Appropriately enough, gout is specifically a problem of excess meat consumption that is an issue of chemical nature (as opposed to issues of a starch nature which are in the vein of overweight, fatigue, cardiovascular, etc). The latter thought is put forth by Arnold Ehret.

What is constipation though? Is it simply infrequent bowel movements? If I never felt uncomfortable in the abdomen/gut, how is that even bad? All the ex vegans and carnivores make fun of vegans being fart machines and having to ***t more than once a day.

Depending on who's talking, they might say it's simply an absence of a bowel movement for a day... Or the other extreme is that it's the root cause of all disease... And that because all cells have waste, they must all excrete it.

The reason for the excess flatulence is the fact that they're often eating difficult to digest, high-cellulose, sulfur-rich vegetable. This is even more certifiable in a person who comes from a SAD diet, low-carb diet, or who has never bothered to cleanse their gut of parasites/fungus. The liver, kidney, adrenal gland, and pancreatic function is in the dumpster from being in an adrenaline state all the time in these people, so it makes the flatulence problem worse.

If you get flatulence from eating fruit, then congratulation, your body has a will to live. It's mobilizing the garbage.

If your flatulence smells bad, you're mobilizing fungal issues. Using herbs and enemas will expedite this cleansing process and soon your flatulence will become minimal and have no smell. A putrid smell of stool and a necessity to wipe are both red flags that something is internally amiss.

I believe the lack of bad feeling is due to a lack of pain receptive nerves in the GI tract, as Dr. Bernard Jensen has pointed out.
I think also that consuming a diet which skyrockets cholesterol is a way throwing a shitton of antacid potential to the lymph system. It's like throwing a giant log on top of a burning pit to squash the flame... But eventually that log will inevitably burn, and indeed the fire will be just as large. Eating a constipating diet is a temporary cheat to buffer acidic problems of the body by buffing the immune system with the antacid potential of cholesterol. Throw on top of that the high cortisol/adrenaline state and then you get someone who mistakes temporary elation for permanent happiness, often making them jabby in a conscious action of seeking answers to amend their ailing subconscious, kind of like:

that’s very true on a plant based diet. TONS of waste. Making it a nice wasting diet.

On a meat based diet, digestion is about 99% happening in the small intestine and you’re left with dog sized poops every other day. That’s waste, not constipation. We don’t want to feed our bacteria and the gas they produce

I understand this is the message that is commonly put forth in our modern time.

I cannot instill my wisdom of experience to you as I thought that I, too, had the answers much in a similar vein to your description, about this time last year... Eventually I found out that these markers were an indication of self-destruction, and the sensory rehabilitation that I have experienced in the last four months of eating predominantly fruit + herbs is the only modality which offers such internal, again I say, permanent progress. I have tried raw carnivore, standard carnivore, vegetarian keto, clinical keto, Paleo, Weston Price inspired, Ray Peat inspired, urine therapy... And tried many protocols for cleanses, flushes, etc... Suffice it to say that the only reversal of my psoriatic autoimmune condition has been inextricably and perfectly, one-for-one tied to my state of gut affairs.

Whenever I eat a constipating diet, I feel great, too, but after experiencing another side of things, I cannot rest with the feelings of mild internal pollution that inevitably accompany such dietary endeavors. I have since felt forced, by obligation of my own liveliness, to set a new personal standard for wellness... And such an infrequency of bowel movements simply does not coexist with this healing state I am experiencing. The relief is something beyond words.

Thanks to Peat of course. I still listen to his insights and it's he that this board is centered around... But this restoration is largely attributed to what I've learned from Robert Morse, Arnold Ehret, and Jethro Kloss... So a thank you of my life is submitted to these gentlemen.
 

redsun

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What is constipation though? Is it simply infrequent bowel movements? If I never felt uncomfortable in the abdomen/gut, how is that even bad? All the ex vegans and carnivores make fun of vegans being fart machines and having to ***t more than once a day.

Constipation is not being able to go when you do have to go and is accompanied by discomfort and fullness. You barely make any waste so you have to go less on carnivore or very low fiber diets. Of course there is waste, just way less. Its that simple. You have less fermentation as well so less flatulence almost none even. He literally does not know what he is talking about.

Eating a constipating diet is a temporary cheat to buffer acidic problems of the body by buffing the immune system with the antacid potential of cholesterol.

You can call it a constipating diet as many times as you want. Does not make it so. Yes there is waste but very little from animal foods. I am not pro-carnivore though as its not balanced like most extreme diets aren't. Having to go more than once a day means you are clogged up severely with fibers and food bulk. There is a extreme difference in how full the abdomen feels when you eat no fiber compared to eating a mixed diet with fiber and bulky foods.
 

Markus

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or who has never bothered to cleanse their gut of parasites/fungus.
What herbs would you recommend for a broad-spectrum cleanse? I've done several herbal treatments in the past, but still feel that I have some internal pathogens that need to be purged.
 

Jennifer

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that’s very true on a plant based diet. TONS of waste. Making it a nice wasting diet.
Which plant based diet?
On a meat based diet, digestion is about 99% happening in the small intestine and you’re left with dog sized poops every other day. That’s waste, not constipation. We don’t want to feed our bacteria and the gas they produce
Which meat based diet?

On a lower fiber plant based diet and a seafood meat based diet, my elimination is equal -- same volume and frequency. I've never had gas or an overgrowth of bacteria on my form of a plant based diet, but I did on a land meat based diet. I have proof from a Genova Diagnostic comprehensive stool test taken while on my plant based diet and the same one taken while on the meat based diet, that I developed an overgrowth while eating meat based. It's not so black and white.
Thanks to Peat of course. I still listen to his insights and it's he that this board is centered around... But this restoration is largely attributed to what I've learned from Robert Morse, Arnold Ehret, and Jethro Kloss... So a thank you of my life is submitted to these gentlemen.
Thought so based on what you've written. I was going to ask you if you were familiar with Dr. Morse, Arnold Ehret and Natural Hygiene. I've tried all those ways of eating/protocols too, except replace urine therapy with RBTI, refeeding (inspired by Matt Stone and Youreatopia) and the milk cure, and gained the most healing following Dr. Morse's work -- I was already eating fruit based, but benefited greatly by including herbs. I eventually hit a wall after three years -- I wasn't able to get off the herbs without my thyroid and adrenals tanking -- and knew I needed more protein and didn't do well with starch or a lot of fiber so I reintroduced animal protein, ended up in a really bad state after 6 months, and finally found a protein source that my body thrives on. Of all things, it's probably one of the most controversial in terms of thyroid health, and health in general. Go figure!
 
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What herbs would you recommend for a broad-spectrum cleanse? I've done several herbal treatments in the past, but still feel that I have some internal pathogens that need to be purged.

Black walnut hull, wormwood and clove in appreciable doses covers just about everything.

If they're in capsules, I find it more effective to break the capsule and swallow the dried herb directly. Not exactly a dessert taste, but such is the nature of antiparasitics.

Oil of oregano and garlic have both given people a lot of therapeutic effect, but I'm less inclined towards these because I find them quite harsh. With that said, if you were dead set on obliterating any potential problems with a minor risk of killing some good stuff too, definitely add them in for a harder punch.

Eating a handful of black walnuts in the morning and around a quarter cup of raw pumpkin seeds in the middle of the day, preferably on an empty stomach, goes a long way too.

Refraining from combining protein and starch at the same meal will dramatically reduce potential fermentation. On top of this, raw vegetables have minor antiparasitic properties and fruits will only contribute to a problem of fermentation if they are paired with any other slower digesting food.

Taking activated charcoal before bed, preferably on an empty stomach, will further help facilitate removal of gut disturbances, particularly any die-off that doesn't readily attach to soluble fiber.

Cooked sulfurous foods (beans, Brussels sprout, cabbage, broccoli, etc) tends to contribute to candida problems... Not sure about other fungal issues, but if trying to purge pathogens I'd wager they're best avoided for the time being.

Garlic and/or salt & lemon enemas or just seeing a colonic hydrotherapist goes a long way in a short amount of time towards purging pathogens.

Ginger, turmeric, goldenseal, and cayenne are also useful in a broad way and I've only experienced therapeutic benefit from taking these herbs. A pinch of cayenne in particular can help herbal delivery of whatever it is paired with.

Lastly... Sip water consistently. All day if possible. Herbs, food, and eliminative processes are all quite dehydrating. I made that mistake for a couple of weeks, wondering why I was feeling worse while continuing to do everything that worked... Turns out I wasn't drinking enough water! Things picked right up when I bothered to hydrate with more diligence.
 

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