I Need Whole Milk

[stargazer1111]

I am having the opposite experience to most people it seems.

I have been consuming a Peat diet except for the carrot salad and the fact that I drink whole milk.

I have had major bowel and gut pain for years. I noticed after drinking the whole milk for a while that this pain disappears and the odd behaviors associated with it disappear.

I was worried about getting too much fat so I decided to cut milk entirely for a few days last week. My gut pain and my behavioral problems returned within 1 day. I brought the whole milk back in and I feel great again with no pain.

I am not sure what specifically about the milk is doing this. I thought about the butyrate. But, butter and cheese do not alleviate the symptoms the way milk does. I thought about lactose too. But, skim milk makes the pain worse, actually.

Guess I will be sticking to whole milk for a while!

 

[tyler]

Saturated fat is very gut protective. You may find that after awhile of running a higher intake of fat, your gut will repair itself and you can lower fat without issues. This was my experience.

 

[stargazer1111]

That could be. But, I ate a high-fat ketogenic diet in which I consumed a lot of ghee and beef tallow and my gut health just deteriorated. It must be a combo of the sugar, protein, and fat in the milk.

 

[EIRE24]

I

Saturated fat is very gut protective. You may find that after awhile of running a higher intake of fat, your gut will repair itself and you can lower fat without issues. This was my experience.

Saturated fat is very gut protective. You may find that after awhile of running a higher intake of fat, your gut will repair itself and you can lower fat without issues. This was my experience.

I thought that you initially were low fat and then switched to high fat?

 

[tyler]

I


I thought that you initially were low fat and then switched to high fat?

Yes, and my digestion was terrible at the time. Raising fat intake helped immensely with digestion issues.
I can now eat practically any foods and any macro ratio without gut issues.

 

[raypeatclips]

Low fat was horrible for my digestion and overall well being. There is definitely merit to having a decent amount of saturated fat in the diet. Interesting the butter didn't help.

 

[stargazer1111]

Well. To be fair. I was eating a starvation level zero carb diet. I consumed roughly 50 grams of protein and 200-300 grams of fat daily. That's all.

 

[DaveFoster]

Low fat was horrible for my digestion and overall well being. There is definitely merit to having a decent amount of saturated fat in the diet. Interesting the butter didn't help.

Dr. Peat used to drink a gallon of 2% or whole milk daily, and he's said that active people can benefit from the extra calories.

Dr. Peat has also said that starch should be minimized, but he's said that butter, despite its fattening qualities has anti-stress actions.

@Travis concurs that saturated fat serves as a good fuel source, much better than starch in his view:

"Eating zero fat doesn't seem very much different than eating coconut fat, to me; the very short‐chained fatty acids are metabolized quickly, and don't seem all that much different than sucrose in terms of velocity. Fat itself doesn't appear necessary, as we have the enzyme fatty acid synthase. But then again, saturated fats don't appear particular harmful and represent a great fuel source (much better than cooked starch, in my opinion). Many animals eat a low fat diet, but I can't see anything wrong with low ω−6 diets. A few tribes of islanders in the South Pacific had been studied by Ian Prior with focus on cardiovascular disease; and despite getting between 40–60% of their energy from saturated fat, these islanders had essentially zero cardiovascular disease. I see this both as a confirmation of Linus Pauling's theory, and also as another debunking of the 'essential fatty acid' concept. "​

 

[Westside PUFAs]

or whole milk daily

False.

 

[DaveFoster]

False.

"I used to drink at least a gallon of 2% or 3% milk daily, and often ate more than 5000 calories, but when I'm completely sedentary for more than ten hours daily, my energy requirement is much lower. The calorie intake should be balanced to your heat production and activity."

- Raymond Peat, PhD at http://peatarian.com/peatexchanges​

 

[Travis]

Whole milk does not raise the blood tryptophan ratio at all—unlike eggs, which can have property. The entire egg doesn't have much effect, but the egg white fraction will cause a powerful spike. This is one of the two classic serotonergic test proteins; the other one being, coincidentally, a fraction of milk. The whey fraction has the most serotonergic food protein known called lactalbumin, and it can be deduced from this that cheese is necessarily less serotonergic than milk—even tending even to lower it over over baseline values. So if a person commonly eats both dairy and eggs the omelet would be good choice. Even an omelet having a bit more egg white than yolk—avoiding the linoleic acid—could be safe, as it would be reasonable to suppose the opposing serotonergic effects of this combination would nullify eachother. Conversely, a of concoction containing equal amounts of egg white and whey (not sure what you'd call this) could put a person on the road to psychosis—or at least tending more towards emotional, spontaneous, authoritarian, and otherwise unacceptable behaviours.

But the same rapid absorption partially responsible for the serotonergic effect of egg white is also the one that reduces the immunological potential; completely and rapidly digested proteins are less likely to have an antibody raised against them. Many egg white proteins are classic food allergens, and mixing these with the yolk (omelet) could reduce digestibility. Although mixing foods with intent to normalize amino acid ratios is logical, and can be fun, I don't think we should get so myopic about serotonin as to ignore all other factors. Food matrix effects are interesting, important, and can influence both absorption speed and immunogenicity.

And it's good to also remember that simply drinking glucose without protein will predictably cause an increase in the tryptophan ratio and subsequent brain serotonin synthesis. This occurs on account of pancreatic insulin signalling to the cells to uptake all plasma amino acids, or all them besides tryptophan—being strongly-bound to albumin (in serum fraction). Yet this albumin binding surprisingly does not significantly affect brain tryptophan uptake: Albumin is a spongy helical protein which is compressed in the brain's microcirculatory region, and this releases tryptophan. This of course becomes serotonin in almost real time as the enzymes responsible for the tryptophan ⟶ serotonin conversion normally operate far below their saturation points (Km) at physiological concentrations.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

"I used to drink at least a gallon of 2% or 3% milk daily, and often ate more than 5000 calories, but when I'm completely sedentary for more than ten hours daily, my energy requirement is much lower. The calorie intake should be balanced to your heat production and activity."

- Raymond Peat, PhD at Email exchanges with Ray Peat - Ray Peat Q&A​

The good old "exchanges." One must always be skeptical of their authenticity. That quote contradicts this one which is his real voice and not an email:

"I’ve mentioned at times I’ve averaged over the years probably a gallon of milk a day but that’s always been 1% milk because even at 2 quarts of milk, a person doesn’t want to have whole milk at 3 or 4% fat.."

And I do think the "I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don’t, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening" email quote is real.

And this too.

But those of course are just in the context of body fat gain, which many people claim to be concerned with.

Regardless, the question is what is more Peat, whole or low fat? Low fat milk is more true Peat.

 

[SOMO]

More of the beneficial hormones are in Whole Milk vs Low-Fat or Non-Fat milk.

I think there's natural emulsifiers in milk though so that you would still find hormones in the water fraction of the milk, but if the cream is skimmed off the milk you're likely losing some cholesterol and other hormones, including the fat soluble A/D/E/K2.

These nutrients are hard to get in the diet, and dairy fat is probably the most common source since most people do not enjoy the taste of liver or natto.

 

[DaveFoster]

The good old "exchanges." One must always be skeptical of their authenticity. That quote contradicts this one which is his real voice and not an email:

"I’ve mentioned at times I’ve averaged over the years probably a gallon of milk a day but that’s always been 1% milk because even at 2 quarts of milk, a person doesn’t want to have whole milk at 3 or 4% fat.."

And I do think the "I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don’t, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening" email quote is real.

And this too.

But those of course are just in the context of body fat gain, which many people claim to be concerned with.

Regardless, the question is what is more Peat, whole or low fat? Low fat milk is more true Peat.

Indeed. He's said that people who live active lifestyles (such as athletes or people who do physical labor) should consider whole milk because of the extra calories, as they're less likely to gain weight from it given an otherwise healthy diet and without the "cortisol belly:"

Also, Dr. Peat doesn't recommend a gallon of milk per day. It's far too much protein to get the milk protein in addition to the gelatin he recommends.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

These nutrients are hard to get in the diet, and dairy fat is probably the most common source since most people do not enjoy the taste of liver or natto.

Whole milk is not a good source of the FSV. It only has tiny amounts of vitamin A naturally without it fortified and no E and D. People claim that "grass fed" has some k2 but the k2 content in dairy fat is mostly in certain cheeses and not milk. We have bacteria in our GI that make k2 so it's not a matter of consuming certain cheeses as the only way to get it.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

More of the beneficial hormones are in Whole Milk vs Low-Fat or Non-Fat milk.

I think there's natural emulsifiers in milk though so that you would still find hormones in the water fraction of the milk, but if the cream is skimmed off the milk you're likely losing some cholesterol and other hormones, including the fat soluble A/D/E/K2.

These nutrients are hard to get in the diet, and dairy fat is probably the most common source since most people do not enjoy the taste of liver or natto.

And there is no food source that contains enough natural vitamin D for one to consume to get enough of it including any non-fortified dairy product without getting too many things you wouldn't want along with it i.e cod liver oil. D is supposed to be obtained from the sun and not natural food so its a unique "nutrient" among the FSV.

 

[Wagner83]

Travis has talked about the much greater estrogenic:androgenic ratio in skimmed milk. @Travis I have seen you talk about the islanders and it has been discussed that coconut fat does not pose any issue, even with glucose use (or small one), but how would you view a high dairy fat diet? Wouldn't that be different, and lead to more insulin resistance and fat gain? Of course, one always has the possibilities to go on a ketogenic diet but a lot of people have reported important issues on it (and some didn't).

 

[EIRE24]

And there is no food source that contains enough natural vitamin D for one to consume to get enough of it including any non-fortified dairy product without getting too many things you wouldn't want along with it i.e cod liver oil. D is supposed to be obtained from the sun and not natural food so its a unique "nutrient" among the FSV.

Westside do you supplement vitamin D?

 

[raypeatclips]

Whole milk does not raise the blood tryptophan ratio at all—unlike eggs, which can have property. The entire egg doesn't have much effect, but the egg white fraction will cause a powerful spike. This is one of the two classic serotonergic test proteins; the other one being, coincidentally, a fraction of milk. The whey fraction has the most serotonergic food protein known called lactalbumin, and it can be deduced from this that cheese is necessarily less serotonergic than milk—even tending even to lower it over over baseline values. So if a person commonly eats both dairy and eggs the omelet would be good choice. Even an omelet having a bit more egg white than yolk—avoiding the linoleic acid—could be safe, as it would be reasonable to suppose the opposing serotonergic effects of this combination would nullify eachother. Conversely, a of concoction containing equal amounts of egg white and whey (not sure what you'd call this) could put a person on the road to psychosis—or at least tending more towards emotional, spontaneous, authoritarian, and otherwise unacceptable behaviours.

But the same rapid absorption partially responsible for the serotonergic effect of egg white is also the one that reduces the immunological potential; completely and rapidly digested proteins are less likely to have an antibody raised against them. Many egg white proteins are classic food allergens, and mixing these with the yolk (omelet) could reduce digestibility. Although mixing foods with intent to normalize amino acid ratios is logical, and can be fun, I don't think we should get so myopic about serotonin as to ignore all other factors. Food matrix effects are interesting, important, and can influence both absorption speed and immunogenicity.

And it's good to also remember that simply drinking glucose without protein will predictably cause an increase in the tryptophan ratio and subsequent brain serotonin synthesis. This occurs on account of pancreatic insulin signalling to the cells to uptake all plasma amino acids, or all them besides tryptophan—being strongly-bound to albumin (in serum fraction). Yet this albumin binding surprisingly does not significantly affect brain tryptophan uptake: Albumin is a spongy helical protein which is compressed in the brain's microcirculatory region, and this releases tryptophan. This of course becomes serotonin in almost real time as the enzymes responsible for the tryptophan ⟶ serotonin conversion normally operate far below their saturation points (Km) at physiological concentrations.

Other than a bit more protein, is there any benefit in eating the white, as well as the yolk, compared to just eating the yolk on its own and throwing away the white, that you know of?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Westside do you supplement vitamin D?

No. I'm trying to detox all of my fat tissue from any synthetic vitamin D that may be stored there. I don't think it's necessary because for example the fact that many Northern people like Brits, Scandaivians etc. grew tall and didn't have rickets which is the sign of vitamin D defiecny tells me that it's not necessary. Brits don't add vitamin D to their milk and they don't have rickets. I believe the supplement form does not act the same as the form made from the sun on the skin.