Milk and my Autoimmune Problems

[stargazer1111]

I have what I think are severe autoimmune problems. I've seen a number of doctors regarding this and no one has come up with a diagnosis. The symptoms include severe, debilitating fatigue and muscle pain (particularly the muscles in my mid back) which makes it impossible to stand for long periods. The pain and fatigue are indescribably severe, to the point at which I feel like I'm going to pass out from the pain when I stand. It also includes post orgasmic illness which I think I've discussed in other threads before as well as severe gastrointestinal disturbances.

What I've realized after consuming milk for a number of years and periodically trying to stop consuming milk is that milk, particularly whole milk and full-fat cheese, shuts off the fatigue and back pain as well as the post orgasmic illness. I mean, it completely eliminates them. The irony is that it seems to worsen the gastrointestinal problems and it seems to exacerbate pre-existing mental health problems. I haven't figured out why milk would eliminate the fatigue and back pain but worsen the gastrointestinal problems.

I've settled on including the milk despite the gastrointestinal issues it causes. I tried going without it recently and my body broke down so bad I became bed ridden. When I re-introduced the milk, I returned to being a relatively normal, functioning person.

As to what components of the milk are responsible for this, I have some thoughts. 1. It cannot be the milk fat itself. I ate a ketogenic diet from 2010-2016 and about 80-90 percent of my calories came from butter/ghee. This is the period of time during which the back pain and fatigue became debilitating, so it cannot be milk fat. 2. It could be casein. Since I'm drinking conventional milk, the casein is mostly A1 casein. This form of casein is broken down into BCM-7 in the gut which acts as an opioid in the brain. It could be that the BCM-7, though harmful to the gut, is actually acting as a pain killer. 3. It could be hormones in the milk which increase testosterone and DHEA.

One interesting thing is that milk makes me completely intolerant to starch. I've decided on keeping the milk and ditching the starch since starch actually seems to worsen the back pain and fatigue.

 

[S-VV]

>back pain
>fatigue
>symptoms get better when starch is avoided

Sounds like ankylosing spondylitis

 

[stargazer1111]

>back pain
>fatigue
>symptoms get better when starch is avoided

Sounds like ankylosing spondylitis

Yes. Have strongly considered this. Can't confirm, but it's a top possibility.

However, it became extreme when I was eating a ketogenic diet that comprised only meat and fat, so I don't know if it quite fits exactly.

 

[Korven]

Yes. Have strongly considered this. Can't confirm, but it's a top possibility.

However, it became extreme when I was eating a ketogenic diet that comprised only meat and fat, so I don't know if it quite fits exactly.

Maybe it's a gut microbiome thing where the milk oligosaccharides and lactose are feeding specific beneficial bacteria in your colon? Long periods of fiber-free keto/carnivore diets can make certain species go extinct, like Bifidobacterium (needed for T-reg cell function that suppress autoimmunity), and I think that's a possible reason why some individuals get so messed up from strict carnivore diets. From what I've researched having a Bifido biofilm in your colon is also important for reducing colon permeability and systemic inflammation from LPS and other toxins.

But I don't know it's just a hypothesis, and it doesn't make much sense considering that your GI symptoms get worse when drinking milk.

I think carnivore really did a number on my gut microbiome and for a long time I couldn't eat ANY starch without getting very sick. B. longum and L. reuteri can help shift back the putrefactive carnivore/proteobacteria dominant microbiome to a healthier microbiome that can deal with starches and fiber.

edit: I used the B. longum strain BB536 which has been shown to revert the dysbiosis induced by an exclusive meat and fat diet https://www.morinagamilk.co.jp/english/about/release/pdf/20160211.pdf

 

[Dr. B]

Maybe it's a gut microbiome thing where the milk oligosaccharides and lactose are feeding specific beneficial bacteria in your colon? Long periods of fiber-free keto/carnivore diets can make certain species go extinct, like Bifidobacterium (needed for T-reg cell function that suppress autoimmunity), and I think that's a possible reason why some individuals get so messed up from strict carnivore diets. From what I've researched having a Bifido biofilm in your colon is also important for reducing colon permeability and systemic inflammation from LPS and other toxins.

But I don't know it's just a hypothesis, and it doesn't make much sense considering that your GI symptoms get worse when drinking milk.

I think carnivore really did a number on my gut microbiome and for a long time I couldn't eat ANY starch without getting very sick. B. longum and L. reuteri can help shift back the putrefactive carnivore/proteobacteria dominant microbiome to a healthier microbiome that can deal with starches and fiber.

edit: I used the B. longum strain BB536 which has been shown to revert the dysbiosis induced by an exclusive meat and fat diet https://www.morinagamilk.co.jp/english/about/release/pdf/20160211.pdf

does pasteurized milk increase that bifidobacterium bacteria or it needs to be raw?
if it reduces colon permeability then why would milk consumption increase intolerance to starch isnt starch troublesome for people with leaky guts

I have what I think are severe autoimmune problems. I've seen a number of doctors regarding this and no one has come up with a diagnosis. The symptoms include severe, debilitating fatigue and muscle pain (particularly the muscles in my mid back) which makes it impossible to stand for long periods. The pain and fatigue are indescribably severe, to the point at which I feel like I'm going to pass out from the pain when I stand. It also includes post orgasmic illness which I think I've discussed in other threads before as well as severe gastrointestinal disturbances.

What I've realized after consuming milk for a number of years and periodically trying to stop consuming milk is that milk, particularly whole milk and full-fat cheese, shuts off the fatigue and back pain as well as the post orgasmic illness. I mean, it completely eliminates them. The irony is that it seems to worsen the gastrointestinal problems and it seems to exacerbate pre-existing mental health problems. I haven't figured out why milk would eliminate the fatigue and back pain but worsen the gastrointestinal problems.

I've settled on including the milk despite the gastrointestinal issues it causes. I tried going without it recently and my body broke down so bad I became bed ridden. When I re-introduced the milk, I returned to being a relatively normal, functioning person.

As to what components of the milk are responsible for this, I have some thoughts. 1. It cannot be the milk fat itself. I ate a ketogenic diet from 2010-2016 and about 80-90 percent of my calories came from butter/ghee. This is the period of time during which the back pain and fatigue became debilitating, so it cannot be milk fat. 2. It could be casein. Since I'm drinking conventional milk, the casein is mostly A1 casein. This form of casein is broken down into BCM-7 in the gut which acts as an opioid in the brain. It could be that the BCM-7, though harmful to the gut, is actually acting as a pain killer. 3. It could be hormones in the milk which increase testosterone and DHEA.

One interesting thing is that milk makes me completely intolerant to starch. I've decided on keeping the milk and ditching the starch since starch actually seems to worsen the back pain and fatigue.

it could be the casein, whey, calcium or minerals? doesnt the butter fat contain only the fat soluble vitamins, very little calcium
have you tried A2 100% grass fed milk to compare
which brand is it
the gastro intestinal stuff could easily be the added vitamins fillers in it, or possibly the A1 protein...

 

[Korven]

does pasteurized milk increase that bifidobacterium bacteria or it needs to be raw?
if it reduces colon permeability then why would milk consumption increase intolerance to starch isnt starch troublesome for people with leaky guts

Hi Mr. Bollox,

Pasteurized milk will not have the same bacterial density as raw milk but should still provide a probiotic effect from the lactose and non-digestible milk sugars. Good question... I think it just depends on what's going on with your individual digestion and gut microbiome. I've experienced the same thing where being on a milk diet makes me tolerate starch less, and vice versa.

 

[jet9]

I have what I think are severe autoimmune problems. I've seen a number of doctors regarding this and no one has come up with a diagnosis. The symptoms include severe, debilitating fatigue and muscle pain (particularly the muscles in my mid back) which makes it impossible to stand for long periods. The pain and fatigue are indescribably severe, to the point at which I feel like I'm going to pass out from the pain when I stand. It also includes post orgasmic illness which I think I've discussed in other threads before as well as severe gastrointestinal disturbances.

What I've realized after consuming milk for a number of years and periodically trying to stop consuming milk is that milk, particularly whole milk and full-fat cheese, shuts off the fatigue and back pain as well as the post orgasmic illness. I mean, it completely eliminates them. The irony is that it seems to worsen the gastrointestinal problems and it seems to exacerbate pre-existing mental health problems. I haven't figured out why milk would eliminate the fatigue and back pain but worsen the gastrointestinal problems.

I've settled on including the milk despite the gastrointestinal issues it causes. I tried going without it recently and my body broke down so bad I became bed ridden. When I re-introduced the milk, I returned to being a relatively normal, functioning person.

As to what components of the milk are responsible for this, I have some thoughts. 1. It cannot be the milk fat itself. I ate a ketogenic diet from 2010-2016 and about 80-90 percent of my calories came from butter/ghee. This is the period of time during which the back pain and fatigue became debilitating, so it cannot be milk fat. 2. It could be casein. Since I'm drinking conventional milk, the casein is mostly A1 casein. This form of casein is broken down into BCM-7 in the gut which acts as an opioid in the brain. It could be that the BCM-7, though harmful to the gut, is actually acting as a pain killer. 3. It could be hormones in the milk which increase testosterone and DHEA.

One interesting thing is that milk makes me completely intolerant to starch. I've decided on keeping the milk and ditching the starch since starch actually seems to worsen the back pain and fatigue.

Does only milk have this effect? What about other healthy sugars - fruits, honey, coconut water, maple syrup, etc? Does any of them have similar effect?

 

[Dr. B]

Maybe it's a gut microbiome thing where the milk oligosaccharides and lactose are feeding specific beneficial bacteria in your colon? Long periods of fiber-free keto/carnivore diets can make certain species go extinct, like Bifidobacterium (needed for T-reg cell function that suppress autoimmunity), and I think that's a possible reason why some individuals get so messed up from strict carnivore diets. From what I've researched having a Bifido biofilm in your colon is also important for reducing colon permeability and systemic inflammation from LPS and other toxins.

But I don't know it's just a hypothesis, and it doesn't make much sense considering that your GI symptoms get worse when drinking milk.

I think carnivore really did a number on my gut microbiome and for a long time I couldn't eat ANY starch without getting very sick. B. longum and L. reuteri can help shift back the putrefactive carnivore/proteobacteria dominant microbiome to a healthier microbiome that can deal with starches and fiber.

edit: I used the B. longum strain BB536 which has been shown to revert the dysbiosis induced by an exclusive meat and fat diet https://www.morinagamilk.co.jp/english/about/release/pdf/20160211.pdf

does milk help get those gut bacteria back or do you need to eat some specific veggies? what about something like dates, figs, banannas, juices?

 

[Korven]

does milk help get those gut bacteria back or do you need to eat some specific veggies? what about something like dates, figs, banannas, juices?

In my experience, no, milk does not bring back bifidobacterium bacteria. You would have to get human breast milk; it contains human milk oligosaccharides (HMOs) that act as a prebiotic and feeds bifido populations. You can buy HMOs as a supplement but I haven't experimented with those. Or find a healthy human that produces organic grass-fed milk. And yes, specific fibres and polyphenols also stimulate growth of bifidobacterium e.g cocoa powder (if you have them in your colon).

Milk kefir on the other hand could have bifidogenic effects according to some studies. I am drinking home-made kefir now to repopulate my gut.

After 1 year of trying to improve my gut microbiome with pre and probiotics I still have 0 bifido and 0 akkermansia. It it really difficult to restore a healthy gut microbiome, probiotics don't stick around long-term and if you have literally 0 bifidobacteria then the prebiotic fiber may end up feeding some other bad dysbiotic bacteria. Hoping kefir might make a dent.

 

[Dolomite]

In my experience, no, milk does not bring back bifidobacterium bacteria. You would have to get human breast milk; it contains human milk oligosaccharides (HMOs) that act as a prebiotic and feeds bifido populations. You can buy HMOs as a supplement but I haven't experimented with those. Or find a healthy human that produces organic grass-fed milk. And yes, specific fibres and polyphenols also stimulate growth of bifidobacterium e.g cocoa powder (if you have them in your colon).

Milk kefir on the other hand could have bifidogenic effects according to some studies. I am drinking home-made kefir now to repopulate my gut.

After 1 year of trying to improve my gut microbiome with pre and probiotics I still have 0 bifido and 0 akkermansia. It it really difficult to restore a healthy gut microbiome, probiotics don't stick around long-term and if you have literally 0 bifidobacteria then the prebiotic fiber may end up feeding some other bad dysbiotic bacteria. Hoping kefir might make a dent.

B. Coagulans decreases endotoxin , liver fibrosis and serotonin

B. Coagulans , a spore forming bacteria, few people proably have heard of . In my opinion it's one of the best probiotics and bacteria strains available. It decreases endotoxin ,liver fibrosis inflammation, boosts a very healthy bacterium called F. Prausnitzii, which in turn lowers serotonin...

raypeatforum.com

There are some studies in the first post that I found interesting.
I did not try the B. coagulans but I use a little apple cider vinegar with meals to provide acetate.

 

[SamYo123]

>back pain
>fatigue
>symptoms get better when starch is avoided

Sounds like ankylosing spondylitis

Fp warns about the bloating of starch and how it can deactivate the TVA muscle and cause back pains

Remove starch and train ur bio-mechanics

www.functionalpatterns.com

 

[Korven]

B. Coagulans decreases endotoxin , liver fibrosis and serotonin

B. Coagulans , a spore forming bacteria, few people proably have heard of . In my opinion it's one of the best probiotics and bacteria strains available. It decreases endotoxin ,liver fibrosis inflammation, boosts a very healthy bacterium called F. Prausnitzii, which in turn lowers serotonin...

raypeatforum.com

There are some studies in the first post that I found interesting.
I did not try the B. coagulans but I use a little apple cider vinegar with meals to provide acetate.

Thanks for sharing.

Weirdly my F. Prausnitzii levels are okay/high according to gut microbiome tests. But no signs of bifido or akkermansia. I have not tried B. coagulans, however I did try the B. subtilis strain with no real tangible results.

 

[Dr. B]

In my experience, no, milk does not bring back bifidobacterium bacteria. You would have to get human breast milk; it contains human milk oligosaccharides (HMOs) that act as a prebiotic and feeds bifido populations. You can buy HMOs as a supplement but I haven't experimented with those. Or find a healthy human that produces organic grass-fed milk. And yes, specific fibres and polyphenols also stimulate growth of bifidobacterium e.g cocoa powder (if you have them in your colon).

Milk kefir on the other hand could have bifidogenic effects according to some studies. I am drinking home-made kefir now to repopulate my gut.

After 1 year of trying to improve my gut microbiome with pre and probiotics I still have 0 bifido and 0 akkermansia. It it really difficult to restore a healthy gut microbiome, probiotics don't stick around long-term and if you have literally 0 bifidobacteria then the prebiotic fiber may end up feeding some other bad dysbiotic bacteria. Hoping kefir might make a dent.

what are the benefits of the bifidobacterium? what should be done if you dont have them. just avoid starches as much as possible?
antibiotics would remove those bacteria right?
with human milk, wouldn't the best human milk be a human on a peat diet. so milk from a girl who's drinking milk, OJ, some meat.

how does sucralose and acefulsame potassium affect this? do they destroy the microbiome or improve it somehow?

 

[Dolomite]

@Korven , Here is a guy who suggests these foods to increase Akkermansia. I don't think his shake sounds all that good but eating more berries might help. I already eat a lot of apples and some raisins.
Getting To Know Your Gut Bugs: Akkermansia Muciniphila

from the article:
Akkermansia loves ellagic acid, a polyphenol prevalent in berries and some nuts (29). It also loves catechins and tannins from green tea (31). Here’s a list of foods that naturally increase Akkermansia levels (8)(30-32):

• Pomegranates
• Cranberries
• Raspberries
• Blackberries
• Blueberries
• Strawberries
• Grapes
• Apples
• Walnuts
• Pecans

Increasing my Akkermansia levels was a key part of my health journey. It helped me repair my leaky gut and detoxify from heavy metals. Here’s a look at the gut repair shake I drank daily to increase my Akkermansia.

My Akkermansia Gut Repair Shake

• 1 scoop ImmunoG PRP by NuMedica or SBI Protect (dairy-free) by Orthomolecular Products (bovine immunoglobulins aka colostrum)
• 1 scoop acacia fiber (a prebiotic)
• 1 tablespoon pomegranate concentrate (I use Lakewood organic)
• 1 tablespoon cranberry concentrate (I use Lakewood organic)
• 1 teaspoon matcha green tea powder (I use Navitas)
• 1 stick ProbioMax 350 DF by Xymogen (or your favorite high-potency probiotic)
• 1 scoop collagen powder

 

[Dr. B]

@Korven , Here is a guy who suggests these foods to increase Akkermansia. I don't think his shake sounds all that good but eating more berries might help. I already eat a lot of apples and some raisins.
Getting To Know Your Gut Bugs: Akkermansia Muciniphila

from the article:
Akkermansia loves ellagic acid, a polyphenol prevalent in berries and some nuts (29). It also loves catechins and tannins from green tea (31). Here’s a list of foods that naturally increase Akkermansia levels (8)(30-32):

• Pomegranates
• Cranberries
• Raspberries
• Blackberries
• Blueberries
• Strawberries
• Grapes
• Apples
• Walnuts
• Pecans

Increasing my Akkermansia levels was a key part of my health journey. It helped me repair my leaky gut and detoxify from heavy metals. Here’s a look at the gut repair shake I drank daily to increase my Akkermansia.

My Akkermansia Gut Repair Shake

• 1 scoop ImmunoG PRP by NuMedica or SBI Protect (dairy-free) by Orthomolecular Products (bovine immunoglobulins aka colostrum)
• 1 scoop acacia fiber (a prebiotic)
• 1 tablespoon pomegranate concentrate (I use Lakewood organic)
• 1 tablespoon cranberry concentrate (I use Lakewood organic)
• 1 teaspoon matcha green tea powder (I use Navitas)
• 1 stick ProbioMax 350 DF by Xymogen (or your favorite high-potency probiotic)
• 1 scoop collagen powder

do you have to use fruits or are the juices fine or even better? juice would be more concentrated, concentrate even more.
that lakewood pomegranate concentrate can be drank straight from the bottle, but it's extremely difficult. youll probaly give up after a couple sips. it really seems to help blood flow and causes sleepiness. maybe adding sugar to it would make it more tolerable. even the pomegranate juice from lakewood is hard to tolerate. the taste is too strong. POM brands juice tastes better, probably because of the dilution with water, being from concentrate.

 

[Dolomite]

do you have to use fruits or are the juices fine or even better? juice would be more concentrated, concentrate even more.
that lakewood pomegranate concentrate can be drank straight from the bottle, but it's extremely difficult. youll probaly give up after a couple sips. it really seems to help blood flow and causes sleepiness. maybe adding sugar to it would make it more tolerable. even the pomegranate juice from lakewood is hard to tolerate. the taste is too strong. POM brands juice tastes better, probably because of the dilution with water, being from concentrate.

I would just eat the berries. I read where concord grape juice is good, too. I haven't looked for the Lakewood concentrates. It sounds like the polyphenols are what are beneficial.

 

[InChristAlone]

Milk and cheese have loads of calcium. Have you considered calcium deficiency? Are you the guy who consumed boatloads of vitamin A and d?