How biologically available is calcium in fruits?

[FrankMa]

Hey,

I recently saw an anthropologist saying on Dr. Saladinos YT channel that all of the
so called primitive cultures he visited basically prefered eating meat and fruit.
Since oranges and other frutis contain lots of calcium I was asking myself how
biologically available calcium in fruit is compared to calcium in milk and cheese.

What do you think?

 

[xeliex]

Hey,

I recently saw an anthropologist saying on Dr. Saladinos YT channel that all of the
so called primitive cultures he visited basically prefered eating meat and fruit.
Since oranges and other frutis contain lots of calcium I was asking myself how
biologically available calcium in fruit is compared to calcium in milk and cheese.

What do you think?

I don't know, but I would guess that it is very bioavailable, perhaps just not adequate for maximal parathyroid suppression.

 

[FrankMa]

I don't know, but I would guess that it is very bioavailable, perhaps just not adequate for maximal parathyroid suppression.

Understand.
So one would need to do a self experiment.
How long would one have to wait until a Parathyroid blood test after switichig from milk to fruit?

 

[Sascha6990]

I also wondered where do these cultures get their calcium from and I would suspect they cook the bones with some acidic substance and so the calcium leeches into the broth.
There was a time in my life when I was eating a lot of fruit and no dairy. During that time the enamel of my teeth started slowly breaking down and I think that the calcium in fruit was too little to counteract the prolonged contact of teeth with fruits which are acidic. I don't know if that makes sense. I didn't know at the time you were supposed to rinse your mouth after eating acidic foods.

 

[Limon9]

Fruit calcium is probably absorbed well. But not all fruits have more calcium than phosphorus. Bananas for example (of which some like to eat 30 a day) are horrible for this.

 

[FrankMa]

I also wondered where do these cultures get their calcium from and I would suspect they cook the bones with some acidic substance and so the calcium leeches into the broth.
There was a time in my life when I was eating a lot of fruit and no dairy. During that time the enamel of my teeth started slowly breaking down and I think that the calcium in fruit was too little to counteract the prolonged contact of teeth with fruits which are acidic. I don't know if that makes sense. I didn't know at the time you were supposed to rinse your mouth after eating acidic foods.

So did I wonder where those cultures get their calcium from.
Your explanation that they get it from cooking bones makes sense.

Maybe the fruit you were eating was just to acidic since most of supermarket fruits are not really ripe;
at least in my country.

 

[FrankMa]

Fruit calcium is probably absorbed well. But not all fruits have more calcium than phosphorus. Bananas for example (of which some like to eat 30 a day) are horrible for this.

Yes, indeed.
The most calcium is found in oranges.

 

[Eberhardt]

I also wondered where do these cultures get their calcium from and I would suspect they cook the bones with some acidic substance and so the calcium leeches into the broth.
There was a time in my life when I was eating a lot of fruit and no dairy. During that time the enamel of my teeth started slowly breaking down and I think that the calcium in fruit was too little to counteract the prolonged contact of teeth with fruits which are acidic. I don't know if that makes sense. I didn't know at the time you were supposed to rinse your mouth after eating acidic foods.

I am not in position to tell what this exact anthropoligist have witnessed but a search in anthropological litterature, which is quite extensive by the way, show that while both fruit and especiallymeat is in more or less all "primitive" diets - that is hunter/gathereres or horticulturalists that hunts and gathers on the side, there is almost no instances at all of basing the diet on fruit and meat. It is usually a huge seasonal variability with some parts of the year yealding more fruit for some groups. ANd of course the latitude of the population is very important for this as well. A huge part of the earth yields very little in the area of fruit (no Im not talking about inuitts- just think the whole northern half of eurasia, along with desert areas in africa, pluss northern america and parts of south america. Basically its only in equatorial areas you would have a sort of steady supply of fruits. Nuts, seeds, berries, grasses and not to forget tubers is usually the largest calorie providers outside of some sort of meat (organ meats is a very little percent of the diet and many places only the hunters and not old people, women and children eat them at all). Also a bit of insects and honey seems to be quite universal. In the areas where tubers are available they usually take predominance along with meat, more northern or arrid areas you can change that for berries and sometimes nuts and herbs.

About the calcium that is an interesting part. The practice of making broths are more or less unheard of in these groups. usually meat is not cooked but barbequed (or eaten raw especially in colder climates like russia. And a lot of these groups, which must have been an universal occurence don't even have the equipment to boil something like that as it usually means you need some sort of pottery or metal-work that they normally dont have. If cooking occurs its in cooking holes in the ground or in treated leather and that is not suitable for making broth. Also going back to the anthropological litterature, you find that most if not all such groups are calcium deficient according to modern standards yet have excellent bone-health. I think it points to a more efficient use of calcium, most likely due to other aspects of their diets and lifestyle.


Personally I am trying the low A diet the last years and have found it to lower my need for calcium tremendously, and most of the said groups seem also to be lowish A (they eat least average less then the official recomendations). THe calcium they do get are as far as I've been able to make out usually from plants, and many of them eat green leafy stuff, but it varies a lot. Again the consumption of leafy greens is naturally more prevalent in more tropcial climates, In winter in canada you dont get much leafy greens...

 

[FrankMa]

I am not in position to tell what this exact anthropoligist have witnessed but a search in anthropological litterature, which is quite extensive by the way, show that while both fruit and especiallymeat is in more or less all "primitive" diets - that is hunter/gathereres or horticulturalists that hunts and gathers on the side, there is almost no instances at all of basing the diet on fruit and meat. It is usually a huge seasonal variability with some parts of the year yealding more fruit for some groups. ANd of course the latitude of the population is very important for this as well. A huge part of the earth yields very little in the area of fruit (no Im not talking about inuitts- just think the whole northern half of eurasia, along with desert areas in africa, pluss northern america and parts of south america. Basically its only in equatorial areas you would have a sort of steady supply of fruits. Nuts, seeds, berries, grasses and not to forget tubers is usually the largest calorie providers outside of some sort of meat (organ meats is a very little percent of the diet and many places only the hunters and not old people, women and children eat them at all). Also a bit of insects and honey seems to be quite universal. In the areas where tubers are available they usually take predominance along with meat, more northern or arrid areas you can change that for berries and sometimes nuts and herbs.

About the calcium that is an interesting part. The practice of making broths are more or less unheard of in these groups. usually meat is not cooked but barbequed (or eaten raw especially in colder climates like russia. And a lot of these groups, which must have been an universal occurence don't even have the equipment to boil something like that as it usually means you need some sort of pottery or metal-work that they normally dont have. If cooking occurs its in cooking holes in the ground or in treated leather and that is not suitable for making broth. Also going back to the anthropological litterature, you find that most if not all such groups are calcium deficient according to modern standards yet have excellent bone-health. I think it points to a more efficient use of calcium, most likely due to other aspects of their diets and lifestyle.


Personally I am trying the low A diet the last years and have found it to lower my need for calcium tremendously, and most of the said groups seem also to be lowish A (they eat least average less then the official recomendations). THe calcium they do get are as far as I've been able to make out usually from plants, and many of them eat green leafy stuff, but it varies a lot. Again the consumption of leafy greens is naturally more prevalent in more tropcial climates, In winter in canada you dont get much leafy greens...

Very interesting. Thank you.
So basically you are saying that diet depends partly on genetic ancestry ( if you do better on starches ( tubers ) or fruit );
the common denominator is eating muscle meat; organ meats and calcium are not so important if you have low vitamin A intake.
That is quite a bit anti-peat ( which I have no problem with ).

I always were wondering where all those cultures get their calcium from; I even asked Ray in an email about it; he didn`t give an satisfying answer.
To be true I am doubting some of Peats teachings for quite a while.
I have started my Peat inspired journey by eating mostly milk and fruit; it worked very very well.
But after a while my appetite for milk decreased significantly.
I still eat / drink lots of milk / cheese, meat and fruit juice, liverwurst and mussels once per week
but I more and more crave just meat and some carb source, preferably fruit or fruit juice or just coke
but maybe in a relationship of 1:2 carbs to protein.
This kind of nutrition gives me lots of energy.

A friend of mine is watching people closely; he said that there are people who get tired
after having meat and others who are just energized by having it; I am sure that I am one of the latter.

 

[Eberhardt]

Very interesting. Thank you.
So basically you are saying that diet depends partly on genetic ancestry ( if you do better on starches ( tubers ) or fruit );
the common denominator is eating muscle meat; organ meats and calcium are not so important if you have low vitamin A intake.
That is quite a bit anti-peat ( which I have no problem with ).

I always were wondering where all those cultures get their calcium from; I even asked Ray in an email about it; he didn`t give an satisfying answer.
To be true I am doubting some of Peats teachings for quite a while.
I have started my Peat inspired journey by eating mostly milk and fruit; it worked very very well.
But after a while my appetite for milk decreased significantly.
I still eat / drink lots of milk / cheese, meat and fruit juice, liverwurst and mussels once per week
but I more and more crave just meat and some carb source, preferably fruit or fruit juice or just coke
but maybe in a relationship of 1:2 carbs to protein.
This kind of nutrition gives me lots of energy.

A friend of mine is watching people closely; he said that there are people who get tired
after having meat and others who are just energized by having it; I am sure that I am one of the latter.

Thanks. I think you got me quite right yes I think ancestry is a bit underestimated even if we are not like deterministically programmed. I wasnt so sure to include the vitamin A part as I dont want to force the idea on people but also find it to be somewhat important so I choose to mention it and then its up to the reader if one accepts it or not.

I think as a more humble approach I find that its obvious that a meat and potatoe diets with some fruits for desert is at least not going to kill you in 5 years. Its basically the least experimental diet you can adopt historically (or another carb source of similar type). I find that if I prolonged take to many of my carbs from soda or white sugar I run into problems, but mostly just starts to find it revolting. I think that's because of the lack of vitamin B's to process it with in the body. But what was a normal diet 150 years ago is now an abnormality. The main problems with diet-related then seems to have been just to little food or getting protein and vitamin b deficiencies due to basically living of bread/porrage in the western world. Thats sort of another approach then the anthropological one but its pointing in the same direction

 

[FrankMa]

Thanks. I think you got me quite right yes I think ancestry is a bit underestimated even if we are not like deterministically programmed. I wasnt so sure to include the vitamin A part as I dont want to force the idea on people but also find it to be somewhat important so I choose to mention it and then its up to the reader if one accepts it or not.

I think as a more humble approach I find that its obvious that a meat and potatoe diets with some fruits for desert is at least not going to kill you in 5 years. Its basically the least experimental diet you can adopt historically (or another carb source of similar type). I find that if I prolonged take to many of my carbs from soda or white sugar I run into problems, but mostly just starts to find it revolting. I think that's because of the lack of vitamin B's to process it with in the body. But what was a normal diet 150 years ago is now an abnormality. The main problems with diet-related then seems to have been just to little food or getting protein and vitamin b deficiencies due to basically living of bread/porrage in the western world. Thats sort of another approach then the anthropological one but its pointing in the same direction

Yes, one has to find his own truth, in every aspect of life.

I agree that a meat and potatoe / tuber based diet with some fruit is not going to kill you soon, for some it may even be the optimal diet.
Besides that I am more and more coming to the conclusion that moving your body outside all day may even be more important than diet; I have seen many examples of very old people first hand; the ones who are still very active in their 80s, all ate meat and some kind of carb source, eggs....AND were basically moving a lot in a low intensity manner outside all day long, got up when the sun was rising, going to bed very early. The key is to always move / be active but not in a stressfull way.
I myself find it very important to be outside every day, no matter if the sun is shining, if is windy, cold, rainy.....
my body needs that triggers to adapt and evolve stronger.

In regards to sugar: I go quite well with sugar but maybe because I get my B-Vitamins from meat and milk and lots of coffee but I agree that fruit which has their own B-vitamins is way better than pure sugar.

 

[Eberhardt]

Yes, one has to find his own truth, in every aspect of life.

I agree that a meat and potatoe / tuber based diet with some fruit is not going to kill you soon, for some it may even be the optimal diet.
Besides that I am more and more coming to the conclusion that moving your body outside all day may even be more important than diet; I have seen many examples of very old people first hand; the ones who are still very active in their 80s, all ate meat and some kind of carb source, eggs....AND were basically moving a lot in a low intensity manner outside all day long, got up when the sun was rising, going to bed very early. The key is to always move / be active but not in a stressfull way.
I myself find it very important to be outside every day, no matter if the sun is shining, if is windy, cold, rainy.....
my body needs that triggers to adapt and evolve stronger.

In regards to sugar: I go quite well with sugar but maybe because I get my B-Vitamins from meat and milk and lots of coffee but I agree that fruit which has their own B-vitamins is way better than pure sugar.

Yeah I agree it's really important with sunlight and movement though I dont thin it can replace diet. I think that's my que to go outside now though lol :)

 

[FrankMa]

Yeah I agree it's really important with sunlight and movement though I dont thin it can replace diet. I think that's my que to go outside now though lol :)

Enjoy!