High Estrogen (not Low T) Causes Erectile Dysfunction (ED)

[Abc123]

In these vit E stuies they usually use just alpha tocopherol and not mixed tocopherols correct? I though alpha was supposed to not be helpful.

Iam curious about this as well. Which Vitamin E is Optimal?

I been using Swanson Maximum-Strength Gamma Tocopherol Sgels

Ingredients
Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol) 200 IU 665%,d-Gamma Tocopherol 750 mg *,d-Delta/d-Beta Tocopherol 290 mg *,Other ingredients: Gelatin, glycerin, rice bran oil, purified water, caramel color.,As a dietary supplement, take one softgel per day with food and water.

Amazon.com: Swanson Maximum-Strength Gamma Tocopherol Sgels: Health & Personal Care

 

[Braveheart]

I settled my confusion over this issue (for now) by using IdeaLabs Tocovite to keep my daily average E around 200 iu. Because of prostate concerns I also take once a week this: Carlson Gamma E Gems

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Softgel
Servings per Container: 120

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol) 150 IU 500%

Gamma Tocopherol 465 mg

Delta & Beta Tocopherols 201 mg

Still not quite sure am doing the correct thing?

 

[haidut]

In these vit E stuies they usually use just alpha tocopherol and not mixed tocopherols correct? I though alpha was supposed to not be helpful.

It is certainly helpful, it is the primary tocopherol out bodies use. The study I posted on vitamin E being estrogen receptor antagonist also used alpha tocopherol.

 

[sladerunner69]

I settled my confusion over this issue (for now) by using IdeaLabs Tocovite to keep my daily average E around 200 iu. Because of prostate concerns I also take once a week this: Carlson Gamma E Gems

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Softgel
Servings per Container: 120

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol) 150 IU 500%

Gamma Tocopherol 465 mg

Delta & Beta Tocopherols 201 mg

Still not quite sure am doing the correct thing?

That's an interesting profile, what is the strategy behind a product that includes so much Gamma tocopherol?

It is certainly helpful, it is the primary tocopherol out bodies use. The study I posted on vitamin E being estrogen receptor antagonist also used alpha tocopherol.

Awesome, the issue with taking Vitamin E from what I've seen is that the overwhelming majority of products are made with a) only alpha tocopherol (extracted from soy) and B) soybean oil... I fear this creates a supplement that is more estrogenic in the end because of the PUFA and phyto estrogens is soy. I know there is always Tocovit which is certainly a stellar product, I have jsut always wonderred about the commercial Vitamin E's if they are beneficial. Ray says

"If the potency of a vitamin E product is around 1000 i.u. per milliliter, the amount of soy oil isn't a concern, but if it's only about 100 i.u./ml, then there's enough oil to matter."-RP

However I he never clarifies if the vitamin E is mixed or just alpha.

 

[Braveheart]

That's an interesting profile, what is the strategy behind a product that includes so much Gamma tocopherol?




Awesome, the issue with taking Vitamin E from what I've seen is that the overwhelming majority of products are made with a) only alpha tocopherol (extracted from soy) and B) soybean oil... I fear this creates a supplement that is more estrogenic in the end because of the PUFA and phyto estrogens is soy. I know there is always Tocovit which is certainly a stellar product, I have jsut always wonderred about the commercial Vitamin E's if they are beneficial. Ray says

"If the potency of a vitamin E product is around 1000 i.u. per milliliter, the amount of soy oil isn't a concern, but if it's only about 100 i.u./ml, then there's enough oil to matter."-RP

However I he never clarifies if the vitamin E is mixed or just alpha.

Vitamin E, alpha- and gamma-tocopherol, and prostate cancer.
Vitamin E, alpha- and gamma-tocopherol, and prostate cancer. - PubMed - NCBI
Good Alpha/Gamma Tocopherol Ratio in Vitamin E Supplements

 

[theLaw]

@haidut

If erectile dysfunction is caused by excess estrogen, then how do trans-women (male to female) achieve erections?

Cheers!

 

[haidut]

@haidut

If erectile dysfunction is caused by excess estrogen, then how do trans-women (male to female) achieve erections?

Cheers!

In males, adrenals produce a lot of DHEA (more than in women) and that can provide the bulk of androgens after castration. Hence why male-to-female conversions do not work well as the adrenals go in overdrive after castration and ultimately ruin health.

 

[theLaw]

In males, adrenals produce a lot of DHEA (more than in women) and that can provide the bulk of androgens after castration. Hence why male-to-female conversions do not work well as the adrenals go in overdrive after castration and ultimately ruin health.

So in those cases you could actually have someone with more estrogen than say an overweight male, and yet still have regular erections?

 

[haidut]

So in those cases you could actually have someone with more estrogen than say an overweight male, and yet still have regular erections?

Yes, as long as enough DHT is produced from those adrenal androgens.
DHT Is The Primary Driver Of Male Sexual Activity And Is Crucial For Male Orgasm

 

[ddjd]

in my experience high estrogen definitely does cause erectile dysfunction. But, too little estrogen also seems to have the same effect. Taking 5adhp, androsterone, progesterone etc. too regularly all causes the same problem.

 

[benaoao]

The issue with Nolva specifically is the lowered igf-1, which sounds great in terms of longevity but not so much short term. A decrease in igf-1 will also lower NO, which ought to be there for a better vasodilatation.

Just saying that abusing NO boosters is obviously bad but going the other way around isn’t optimal either for someone who wants to have an intense sex life. Seeing ones own erection at its 100% vigor is great for libido

But that’s all from the spectrum of someone who is rather low in estradiol. Low and high estradiol side effects are pretty similar in terms of libido though, so there’s a sweet spot to hit in the middle

 

[Mauritio]

Estrogen is really a core issue. I think it is important to make the distinction that there is intacellular and serum estrogen. Some guys don't make enough testosterone to aromatize enough serum estrogen for blood tests, but have plenty that is already stored causing problems. Some serum estrogen is important for libido (I've heard many guys say they have higher libido with higher serum-myself included), but it's the other stuff that inhibits other downstream functions.

Taking an AI for instance with low serum estrogen can cause real problems like achy joints, but for guys that have too much aromatize activity, AIs can be a real winner. Other drugs that block estrogen can be selectively directed at the hypothalamus (clomiphine) while others can be more general (vit E for instance). If im correct, nolvadex inhibits estrogen in reproductive organs in men and women. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selecti ... _modulator

I'm just saying all this to show that this can be a complex issue that needs to be investigated individually. ED, "low T, and libido are correlated, but are not always present simultaneously. Estrogen most certainly plays a central role in all of them.

I think i have exactly that problem.its so freaking annoying . I wanna maintain a low level of estrogen, but by estrogen goes easily too low. soo is the solution to also lower intracellular estrogen ?!
or maybe take some dhea with estrogen lowering substances as @haidut mentioned?

 

[vulture]

@haidut, I've being seeing some kind of pattern in this whole varicoceles stuff:
Trauma or stressful enviroment increases cortisol (seen in several varicoceles sufferers), inflammation, estrogen, veins get weaker, also, androgen actions reduced by cortisol, increased masturbation to cope with stress sums increased bloodflow to genital area and stress. Some of them actually perform such behaviour even 2 or 3 times a day for weeks or months. Usually masturbators do it sitting, which puts extra pressure on veins compared to standing or laying.
Veins are weaker because of stress hormones, also, as long as I remember, aromatase is considerably produced in testicles, specially under influence of stress. This makes some kind of coctail to get varicose veins in testicles. Genital veins get an abnormally increased bloodflow loaded of estrogen. Also, under influence of such hormones it could be likely to be undernourished (reduced appetite).

It seems like the approach to stop varicoceles progressions (or reducing it?) shall account several factors.

What I'm wondering here is: would be a good idea to put a quality Vitamin E supplement in oil over scrotal skin to try to get kick out as much tissue estrogen as possible in those veins? What do you guys think of it?
Another option might be trying Progesterone on those veins or some sort of anti-inflammatory substance, but as long as I remember, Peat didn't seem friendly on putting oils (or just SFA esthers?) on scrotum area.

 

[theLaw]

@vulture

These are some great questions, and having wondered about these issues myself, I found that in every case the basics (purge pufa/clean liver/fix digestion) recovered function quickly (within days) where it was essentially non-existent (zero erections + zero libido for weeks) for me.

Conversely, I also tested several of Haidut's protocols without changing diet, and saw no significant changes, so for me there appeared to be a tipping point after which sups weren't very effective at a standard dose.

What was really shocking was the speed of recovery after focusing on diet specifically. Hard to believe that people suffer with issues for years/decades that can be resolved in a few days.

 

[Mauritio]

@haidut, I've being seeing some kind of pattern in this whole varicoceles stuff:
Trauma or stressful enviroment increases cortisol (seen in several varicoceles sufferers), inflammation, estrogen, veins get weaker, also, androgen actions reduced by cortisol, increased masturbation to cope with stress sums increased bloodflow to genital area and stress. Some of them actually perform such behaviour even 2 or 3 times a day for weeks or months. Usually masturbators do it sitting, which puts extra pressure on veins compared to standing or laying.
Veins are weaker because of stress hormones, also, as long as I remember, aromatase is considerably produced in testicles, specially under influence of stress. This makes some kind of coctail to get varicose veins in testicles. Genital veins get an abnormally increased bloodflow loaded of estrogen. Also, under influence of such hormones it could be likely to be undernourished (reduced appetite).

It seems like the approach to stop varicoceles progressions (or reducing it?) shall account several factors.

What I'm wondering here is: would be a good idea to put a quality Vitamin E supplement in oil over scrotal skin to try to get kick out as much tissue estrogen as possible in those veins? What do you guys think of it?
Another option might be trying Progesterone on those veins or some sort of anti-inflammatory substance, but as long as I remember, Peat didn't seem friendly on putting oils (or just SFA esthers?) on scrotum area.

great points, been putting this tuff together in the last years as well ...
atm im trying pycnogenol for varicocele and varicose veins ...

 

[vulture]

@vulture

These are some great questions, and having wondered about these issues myself, I found that in every case the basics (purge pufa/clean liver/fix digestion) recovered function quickly (within days) where it was essentially non-existent (zero erections + zero libido for weeks) for me.

Conversely, I also tested several of Haidut's protocols without changing diet, and saw no significant changes, so for me there appeared to be a tipping point after which sups weren't very effective at a standard dose.

What was really shocking was the speed of recovery after focusing on diet specifically. Hard to believe that people suffer with issues for years/decades that can be resolved in a few days.

I can recall your compendium of links to address such problems. I appreciate your attention and intro into these whole bunch of info.
Glad you improved.
BTW, I'm gradually increasing weight, seems gaining weight via diet + cacao + coffee is getting me in a way better mood, despite I'm using way less supplements, my pulse has increased sustancially, I feel more joy and seem to tolerate dairy a lot better. I'll soon update my log. But seems radically important to put your body into a "prosperous mode" with caloric intake + right foods.

 

[A.R]

@vulture

These are some great questions, and having wondered about these issues myself, I found that in every case the basics (purge pufa/clean liver/fix digestion) recovered function quickly (within days) where it was essentially non-existent (zero erections + zero libido for weeks) for me.

Conversely, I also tested several of Haidut's protocols without changing diet, and saw no significant changes, so for me there appeared to be a tipping point after which sups weren't very effective at a standard dose.

What was really shocking was the speed of recovery after focusing on diet specifically. Hard to believe that people suffer with issues for years/decades that can be resolved in a few days.

Do you have any experience of using digestive enzymes?

It seems as though better digestion means better estrogen excretion

 

[theLaw]

Do you have any experience of using digestive enzymes?

It seems as though better digestion means better estrogen excretion

Not enzymes, but BCAAs. I think that poor digestion can create a cascade of pretty nasty endotoxin symptoms.

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

Better digestion would probably correlate to better liver function (and vice versa) = better estrogen excretion.

Also, I think that high-quality protein intake above what most get here is necessary for proper thyroid/liver function. Personally, I saw results from both BCAAs and cooked potato juice. When you run the math on how much high-quality protein people are getting on a regular basis, it's incredible that our entire society isn't protein deficient (or perhaps they are if hypothyroidism is the metric).

 

[Wagner83]

Not enzymes, but BCAAs. I think that poor digestion can create a cascade of pretty nasty endotoxin symptoms.

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

Better digestion would probably correlate to better liver function (and vice versa) = better estrogen excretion.

Also, I think that high-quality protein intake above what most get here is necessary for proper thyroid/liver function. Personally, I saw results from both BCAAs and cooked potato juice. When you run the math on how much high-quality protein people are getting on a regular basis, it's incredible that our entire society isn't protein deficient (or perhaps they are if hypothyroidism is the metric).

Do you notice differences from more than the often cited 1g/kg?

 

[theLaw]

Do you notice differences from more than the often cited 1g/kg?

Yes. I think that it might even need to be double that.

Some thoughts:

-Peat has said that he needed 150G+ per day for years (I assume his metabolism was optimal during this time) - keep in mind, that's high-quality protein as well (Peat's probably around 77kg)

-Haidut used the equivalent of 150G+ (from BCAAs) for a time during his recovery based on his posts (Georgi is around 86kg)

-Danny had on Emma Sgourakis, a health coach who follows Peat's work, and she claimed that she suggests 80-100G of high-quality protein as the bare minimum for sedentary female (she's probably around 50kg)

-Finally, how many of the protocols on this forum will work without adequate protein?

When I used cooked potato juice, I drank the juice from 10lbs/day for several days before seeing any negative symptoms (headaches). This is the equivalent of 300-500G of high-quality protein per day before seeing negative effects. (I was around 90kg)

Now ask yourself, how many members are getting more than 100G of high-quality protein per day?