I am a male in my early twenties whose life has been turned sideways ever since experiencing a dramatic effect from high dose vitamins.
History
Past few years
High dose niacin
What I Felt
What I Know So Far
I am starting to think it may have been the combination of high dose thiamine and niacin. I had to take a break from thiamine for a period. I'm about to add it back but with a fat-soluble form.
Also: the part about not feeling very social my whole life, that changed. I felt a type of social motivation that I hadn't felt before. And I've never had a strong desire to have a job and that changed too. I felt I could better manage life. A way to describe it is that it's like my mind/focus is like a laser or pressure washer: pressure washers are useful, but sometime you just need to water the garden. Whatever happened put me into the 'watering the garden' mode.
I want to add that I do not do drugs. I don't even take nootropics. I barely even take herbs. I've never felt anything like this (the 'state change') in my whole life.
Also I remain optimistic that this will get this figured out.
1. General thoughts?
2. Any ideas about how to 'trigger' the state-change? I've tried breathing exercises, bath tub, sauna. Maybe something related to vagus nerve.
3. Advice about how I should approach the whole issue of trying to use my insurance vs just paying out-of-pocket which is psychologically easier for me. I have no experience with any of this.
History
Body: slightly above average height; very skinny my whole life.
Growing up:
- typical middle class American diet. not particularly healthy. we always had junk food in the house.
- always been athletic. soccer, track & field, cross-country.
- severe acne throughout teenage years. Took low to moderate dose of accutane for a short period in high school.
- Never had any medications other than accutane and standard antibiotics once or twice.
Chronic issues:
- Looking back, I can now see that I basically had sleep issues starting in middle school or possibly earlier.
Sparing the details, I can just tell you it was essentially insomnia and it got more severe over time.
I was sleeping on average between 2 and 6 hours, except the weekends and during summer.
- My whole life my mind has been racing, but in a controllable manner. I think I've always been in a high-stress mode, but have just been very used to it.
- I didn't have much interest in mundane socialization. Feeling socially withdrawn despite having friends was just part of who I thought I was.---I'll get back to this.
Health awareness:
- I became interested in health at around age 17. trying to eat cleaner diet, exercise, and learning the basics of supplementation.
- My goal was to improve energy levels, motivation, and attain optimal biological health.
Growing up:
- typical middle class American diet. not particularly healthy. we always had junk food in the house.
- always been athletic. soccer, track & field, cross-country.
- severe acne throughout teenage years. Took low to moderate dose of accutane for a short period in high school.
- Never had any medications other than accutane and standard antibiotics once or twice.
Chronic issues:
- Looking back, I can now see that I basically had sleep issues starting in middle school or possibly earlier.
Sparing the details, I can just tell you it was essentially insomnia and it got more severe over time.
I was sleeping on average between 2 and 6 hours, except the weekends and during summer.
- My whole life my mind has been racing, but in a controllable manner. I think I've always been in a high-stress mode, but have just been very used to it.
- I didn't have much interest in mundane socialization. Feeling socially withdrawn despite having friends was just part of who I thought I was.---I'll get back to this.
Health awareness:
- I became interested in health at around age 17. trying to eat cleaner diet, exercise, and learning the basics of supplementation.
- My goal was to improve energy levels, motivation, and attain optimal biological health.
Past few years
I have spent the last 4+ years independently studying various topics including health. Experimenting with various diets and supplements has been a major hobby of mine. I have tried the majority of stuff that is out there or generally talked about in the health sphere. I've never had a bad reaction to any food I've eaten nor any supplement. I've also never felt a good effect from any food or supplement other than one time I definitely felt something from the herb bacopa monnieri and another time I felt something from baking soda that I was unable to reproduce.
Well, recently this has changed...
About 3 months ago I had been doing the following (I apologize if this is not in-line with Peat's work):
diet
consisting of sourdough bread, meat, vegetables.
herbs
Bacopa monnieri powder, semi-regularly
random herbal decoctions.
vitamins
Thiamine HCl 2 grams per day.
Pantethine (fat soluble b5) 450mg ~2x per week.
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid), 1.5 grams per day.
Magnesium, 350 mg per day. (obtained from 5 grams magnesium beta-hydroxybutyrate)
Fish oil, ~3 grams per day
Flaxseed oil, ~3 grams per day
(I balanced this out with small amount of sunflower seeds).
Vitamin D3. Taken as 2 doses: 300,000 IU at beginning of month and 300,000 IU at middle of month. (~20,000 IU per day)
Bamboo Extract, for Silica. 1 capsule per day.
Selenium +Vitamin E, 200 mcg and 20 mg. ~4x per week.
Iodine, 1 mg. ~4x per week.
other
Desiccated beef liver capsules (high quality, non-defatted), 5 per day.
Live baker’s yeast, occasionally
inactive brewers yeast, occasionally.
cold showers.
moderate exercise.
stretching, including neck stretching.
Well, recently this has changed...
About 3 months ago I had been doing the following (I apologize if this is not in-line with Peat's work):
diet
consisting of sourdough bread, meat, vegetables.
herbs
Bacopa monnieri powder, semi-regularly
random herbal decoctions.
vitamins
Thiamine HCl 2 grams per day.
Pantethine (fat soluble b5) 450mg ~2x per week.
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid), 1.5 grams per day.
Magnesium, 350 mg per day. (obtained from 5 grams magnesium beta-hydroxybutyrate)
Fish oil, ~3 grams per day
Flaxseed oil, ~3 grams per day
(I balanced this out with small amount of sunflower seeds).
Vitamin D3. Taken as 2 doses: 300,000 IU at beginning of month and 300,000 IU at middle of month. (~20,000 IU per day)
Bamboo Extract, for Silica. 1 capsule per day.
Selenium +Vitamin E, 200 mcg and 20 mg. ~4x per week.
Iodine, 1 mg. ~4x per week.
other
Desiccated beef liver capsules (high quality, non-defatted), 5 per day.
Live baker’s yeast, occasionally
inactive brewers yeast, occasionally.
cold showers.
moderate exercise.
stretching, including neck stretching.
High dose niacin
So whenever I don't have to get up early I tend to end up sleeping during the day and being up at night for some reason. This happened every summer break and also has been that way for the past couple of years that I've been out of school. I never saw it as a serious problem, I thought it was just my natural circadian rhythm, although it did annoy me.
I tried countless times to fix this and never seemed to be able to. But at some point I got very fed-up and basically decided to dedicate all of my effort into it.
One of the theories I came up with was that I could try taking a high dose of niacin in the early morning in order to raise NAD levels because NAD is supposed to be highest in the morning.
The first 3 days I didn't feel great. I was having short-term memory issues, feeling out of it, etc. Then on the fourth day something bizarre happened.
I tried countless times to fix this and never seemed to be able to. But at some point I got very fed-up and basically decided to dedicate all of my effort into it.
One of the theories I came up with was that I could try taking a high dose of niacin in the early morning in order to raise NAD levels because NAD is supposed to be highest in the morning.
The first 3 days I didn't feel great. I was having short-term memory issues, feeling out of it, etc. Then on the fourth day something bizarre happened.
What I Felt
I was taking a hot bath because I didn't feel like doing anything else. I observed an inability to relax and general restlessness and also that I couldn't remember the last time I actually felt relaxed. A bit annoyed at this fact, I went to let the water out and somehow both of my hands were together and pulled some air under the water and it ended up making a really cool sound as tiny air bubbles escaped through my fingers and made it to the surface.
This triggered something within me. It was like some switch was flipped. I felt an immense peace and joy and child-like playfulness. I couldn't believe what was happening to me. My mental clarity became incredible. I felt way more present in my body. It felt like my nervous system had been stuck my whole life and finally loosened up. I had been dealing with GI issues and I felt something changing within my gut like something was being corrected--and shortly after, I had the most perfectly formed stool I had had in years. It felt like my cellular energy increased, but at the same time I felt I could go to sleep--my chronic sleep issues were completely gone. I hadn't felt sleepy like that since a very young age. I walked into the living room and my sense of smell had increased so much that it was as if I was smelling the house for the very first time; my vision was also more crisp.
It was a life-changing moment. The best moment of my life so far.
The next day I took the niacin again and it produced the same exact effect.
This was two to three months ago.
I remember it was either the fifth or sixth day and I was feeling the effect slowly wearing off. And it felt as if I was falling into a half-way coma type state. I would feel less present in my body, my mental clarity decreased, my insomnia would come back completely, the vigor would be lost. I became who I was prior to the niacin experience.
I tried taking more niacin and I don't remember much but I know that it stopped working. And one theory I came across was that niacin reduces ammonia in the body and I was feeling the same as people with mild hyperammonia encephalopathy / hepatic encephalopathy (according to some videos I saw)(also: high serum ammonia can actually put you into a full coma). So anyways I bought some L-arginine and surprisingly it actually either had the same effect as the niacin or it was just prolonging the effect. But it was noticeable.
This triggered something within me. It was like some switch was flipped. I felt an immense peace and joy and child-like playfulness. I couldn't believe what was happening to me. My mental clarity became incredible. I felt way more present in my body. It felt like my nervous system had been stuck my whole life and finally loosened up. I had been dealing with GI issues and I felt something changing within my gut like something was being corrected--and shortly after, I had the most perfectly formed stool I had had in years. It felt like my cellular energy increased, but at the same time I felt I could go to sleep--my chronic sleep issues were completely gone. I hadn't felt sleepy like that since a very young age. I walked into the living room and my sense of smell had increased so much that it was as if I was smelling the house for the very first time; my vision was also more crisp.
It was a life-changing moment. The best moment of my life so far.
The next day I took the niacin again and it produced the same exact effect.
This was two to three months ago.
I remember it was either the fifth or sixth day and I was feeling the effect slowly wearing off. And it felt as if I was falling into a half-way coma type state. I would feel less present in my body, my mental clarity decreased, my insomnia would come back completely, the vigor would be lost. I became who I was prior to the niacin experience.
I tried taking more niacin and I don't remember much but I know that it stopped working. And one theory I came across was that niacin reduces ammonia in the body and I was feeling the same as people with mild hyperammonia encephalopathy / hepatic encephalopathy (according to some videos I saw)(also: high serum ammonia can actually put you into a full coma). So anyways I bought some L-arginine and surprisingly it actually either had the same effect as the niacin or it was just prolonging the effect. But it was noticeable.
What I Know So Far
- the niacin stopped working and I've tried it at various dosages and for various prolonged periods of time with no effect.
- the arginine stopped working and I've tried it many ways.
- arginine alpha-keto-glutarate (which is supposed to be highly effective in reducing ammonia) has no effect.
- high dose vitamin C doesn't work and also temporarily damaged my stomach. and I wasn't able to eat for almost a week. Please drink water with your vitamin C.
- I bought like 10 supplements that research suggested may help with ammonia and they didn't do anything.
- I had a special lab test conducted for ammonia and it came back normal. But maybe it is only occurring in my brain/spinal fluid? Some ammonia-producing bacteria?
- CT can showed nothing other than apparently I have a fatty liver. I do not drink. I want to eventually test myself for celiac. Also some research suggests thiamine deficient animals develop fatty liver after the introduction of thiamine supplementation..
- Most of my lab work appears normal. I bought a lot of testing. The only thing was low testosterone, low free testosterone, and high SHBG. I want to buy more testing especially some of the tests Ray Peat recommends.
- I got an IV of acetyl-cysteine (NAC) and it had the same effect as the niacin and arginine. It was 8 grams per hour then 1 gram per hour. Oral NAC has low bioavailability and doesn't have any discernable effect. I will maybe try NACET.
- I have no money left and no job. It is difficult to explain this situation to my doctor and family... Currently applying to private grants for financial relief.
- the arginine stopped working and I've tried it many ways.
- arginine alpha-keto-glutarate (which is supposed to be highly effective in reducing ammonia) has no effect.
- high dose vitamin C doesn't work and also temporarily damaged my stomach. and I wasn't able to eat for almost a week. Please drink water with your vitamin C.
- I bought like 10 supplements that research suggested may help with ammonia and they didn't do anything.
- I had a special lab test conducted for ammonia and it came back normal. But maybe it is only occurring in my brain/spinal fluid? Some ammonia-producing bacteria?
- CT can showed nothing other than apparently I have a fatty liver. I do not drink. I want to eventually test myself for celiac. Also some research suggests thiamine deficient animals develop fatty liver after the introduction of thiamine supplementation..
- Most of my lab work appears normal. I bought a lot of testing. The only thing was low testosterone, low free testosterone, and high SHBG. I want to buy more testing especially some of the tests Ray Peat recommends.
- I got an IV of acetyl-cysteine (NAC) and it had the same effect as the niacin and arginine. It was 8 grams per hour then 1 gram per hour. Oral NAC has low bioavailability and doesn't have any discernable effect. I will maybe try NACET.
- I have no money left and no job. It is difficult to explain this situation to my doctor and family... Currently applying to private grants for financial relief.
I am starting to think it may have been the combination of high dose thiamine and niacin. I had to take a break from thiamine for a period. I'm about to add it back but with a fat-soluble form.
Also: the part about not feeling very social my whole life, that changed. I felt a type of social motivation that I hadn't felt before. And I've never had a strong desire to have a job and that changed too. I felt I could better manage life. A way to describe it is that it's like my mind/focus is like a laser or pressure washer: pressure washers are useful, but sometime you just need to water the garden. Whatever happened put me into the 'watering the garden' mode.
I want to add that I do not do drugs. I don't even take nootropics. I barely even take herbs. I've never felt anything like this (the 'state change') in my whole life.
Also I remain optimistic that this will get this figured out.
1. General thoughts?
2. Any ideas about how to 'trigger' the state-change? I've tried breathing exercises, bath tub, sauna. Maybe something related to vagus nerve.
3. Advice about how I should approach the whole issue of trying to use my insurance vs just paying out-of-pocket which is psychologically easier for me. I have no experience with any of this.
