Has Anyone Here Successfully Resolved "SIBO" Or Major Stomach Bloating? With Peating Or Anything Els

[Kyle M]

Kyle,

Raw garlic & onion is very harsh/irritating, turpentine also seems somewhat extreme to me.

I think raw honey and ceylon cinnamon is worth a try.

If you have a health food store around you, try to get your hands on some raw wildflower honey, then get organic ceylon cinnamon.

Have 1tbsp raw honey with 1/4-1/2 tsp ceylon cinnamon, mix them together and eat the mixture; do this 6-8x daily in between meals.

What is the rationale behind this treatment? The reason I lean towards what you call harsh treatments is the instinct that harsh=effective. I realize this is not an entirely evidence-based idea but I have tried a few softer treatments and received no benefit from them.
Now, if this honey and ceylon cinnamon things is effective I'll definitely go with that, I have no horse in this race and am just looking for something to work. In fact maybe I'll go try it today, since those are easy to find and I have a couple of health food stores around me.

 

[Derek]

What is the rationale behind this treatment? The reason I lean towards what you call harsh treatments is the instinct that harsh=effective. I realize this is not an entirely evidence-based idea but I have tried a few softer treatments and received no benefit from them.
Now, if this honey and ceylon cinnamon things is effective I'll definitely go with that, I have no horse in this race and am just looking for something to work. In fact maybe I'll go try it today, since those are easy to find and I have a couple of health food stores around me.

Raw honey is pretty much effective against all pathogens, both gram negative/positive as well as parasites and fungi. Also, it helps to heal the mucosal lining in the stomach, which in your case is probably inflamed seeing as you have bloating. Honey also provides many digestive enzymes. Ceylon is antimicrobial as well, with the added benefit of decreasing ammonia, which is produced by a lot of intestinal microbes in order to neutralize HCL.

In regards to harshness, I was simply implying that honey can kill microbes as effectively as raw garlic/onion, but that it doesn't damage the stomach/intestines like garlic and onion do; actually it heals them.

What are the "softer" treatments that you tried?

 

[Kyle M]

What are the "softer" treatments that you tried?

I've tried having a Ray Peat style raw carrot salad as often as I can, and also tried bamboo shoots and charcoal. I even went on a stint of Rifaximin antibiotics and that didn't seem to help, leading me to believe there is a protective biofilm built up in my gut. That's why I thought the garlic would be a good try, since it's so harsh.

 

[Kyle M]

Also, it helps to heal the mucosal lining in the stomach, which in your case is probably inflamed seeing as you have bloating.

One point on this, I have had 2 blood tests for leukocyte activity and they have both been low, as well as a 3-day stool microscopy test that detected no white blood cells. Not conclusive evidence, but evidence nonetheless that at the very least my gut isn't throwing off tons of inflammation in tandem with the bloating.

 

[Derek]

Stool analysis only shows what is going on in the lower GI tract, it doesn't give a very good picture of what's going on in the stomach.

Do you think it's more a reaction to a particular food that is causing the bloating?

I haven't read this whole thread, but you made it clear that you thought there was something infectious going on; which is why you were trying antimicrobials. Raw honey and ceylon are good for this.

Also, if it's a deficiency of HCL or enzymes raw honey will also correct this problem over time.

 

[Ulla]

One point on this, I have had 2 blood tests for leukocyte activity and they have both been low, as well as a 3-day stool microscopy test that detected no white blood cells. Not conclusive evidence, but evidence nonetheless that at the very least my gut isn't throwing off tons of inflammation in tandem with the bloating.

I am sorry I read only that post.
Low leukocytes... could mean anything is going on with thymus gland?

 

[Kyle M]

Stool analysis only shows what is going on in the lower GI tract, it doesn't give a very good picture of what's going on in the stomach.

Do you think it's more a reaction to a particular food that is causing the bloating?

I haven't read this whole thread, but you made it clear that you thought there was something infectious going on; which is why you were trying antimicrobials. Raw honey and ceylon are good for this.

Also, if it's a deficiency of HCL or enzymes raw honey will also correct this problem over time.

My reaction to foods is different for different foods but it seems to be carbs in general that cause the bloating.

Also I've tried HCl supplements with meals and that didn't make a difference. Maybe it is related but it's not the only problem.

I am sorry I read only that post.
Low leukocytes... could mean anything is going on with thymus gland?

I shouldn't have said low I meant normal, not below the low end of the normal reference range. I doubt I have a thymus problem.

 

[Derek]

I still think the raw honey/ceylon cinnamon would be a good thing to try. It will cover all types of things that could be going on in your stomach. Also, raw honey will help you eat more carbs without bloating. When I couldn't eat starches adding raw honey allowed me to eat them without any issues whatsoever. The antibiotic effect of the raw honey, as well as the high amounts of amylase it contains, will help you handle carbs/starch more efficiently.

 

[Kyle M]

How important is it that the honey be wildflower? I used to eat a lot of unheated honey and my preference is alfalfa and orange blossom over clover and wildflower.

 

[Derek]

How important is it that the honey be wildflower? I used to eat a lot of unheated honey and my preference is alfalfa and orange blossom over clover and wildflower.

Wildflower has most antimicrobial activity.

 

[redred]

Thebigpeatowski: did you use antibiotocs or just garlic to fix the bacteria? Ive been using your patented recipe for 3 days and feel more calmer and less brain fog. Ive been peating for years but nothing really fixed my low energy, bad teeth, tired state, depression etc. My cute belly ia often a little bit bloated. And i dont seem to digest food very good.

I ordered some tetracycline also.

 

[Kyle M]

Wildflower has most antimicrobial activity.

Ok, I'll get that when I refill on honey. What is special about Ceylon cinnamon? I'm assuming Ceylon is a place. Any way I've been trying this, and can't get to more than about 4 or so doses per day, but I'll tell you it's at least a million times more pleasant than the garlic treatment. I wouldn't say it's doing too much for me, however I'm planning on using in in conjunction with turpentine and penicillin. And I'm contemplating trying the garlic again if that doesn't work. I did buy garlic from California, it was supposedly organic but maybe was irradiated? I could add onion too. Either way I'm going to keep trying stuff. Oh coconut oil too, I might start taking that also.

 

[Derek]

Ok, I'll get that when I refill on honey. What is special about Ceylon cinnamon? I'm assuming Ceylon is a place. Any way I've been trying this, and can't get to more than about 4 or so doses per day, but I'll tell you it's at least a million times more pleasant than the garlic treatment. I wouldn't say it's doing too much for me, however I'm planning on using in in conjunction with turpentine and penicillin. And I'm contemplating trying the garlic again if that doesn't work. I did buy garlic from California, it was supposedly organic but maybe was irradiated? I could add onion too. Either way I'm going to keep trying stuff. Oh coconut oil too, I might start taking that also.

Ceylon is more powerful/antimicrobial than standard cassia. How are you trying this if you still haven't gotten the wildflower honey? The dose is just 1tbsp honey & 1/4tsp cinnamon, that's hard for you to do more than 4 times? I've eaten 1-2 cups of honey before in a day with bread and potatoes and had no problems tolerating it. You have to be doing this a minimum of 2 weeks to really see if it's working, and if you're going to add all these other treatments on top of the one I suggested; how could you possible understand what, if anything is working?

 

[Kyle M]

How are you trying this if you still haven't gotten the wildflower honey? The dose is just 1tbsp honey & 1/4tsp cinnamon, that's hard for you to do more than 4 times? You have to be doing this a minimum of 2 weeks to really see if it's working, and if you're going to add all these other treatments on top of the one I suggested; how could you possible understand what, if anything is working?

I've been doing it with alfalfa honey (my favorite) and am about to open a jar of orange blossom (2nd fave). But I will head over to the store soon and get a big ole jar of wild flower for this purpose.
The reason I have trouble doing it is more time than anything. I can do it in the morning first thing, then bring it with me to work and do it once or twice there, then when I get home and if I really push it again right before bed. That's only 5 times, and that's an effort for me to do something food related that many times. If you're doing it 8 times per day that's almost once per hour, at that right you may as well just make a huge batch and snack on it all day long, rather than acting like it's a discreet thing.
Of course you're right that combining treatments obfuscates the individual effects, but there is a possibility that antibiotics+honey/cinnamon+something else may be able to overcome my gut overgrowth where one of them may not. I was surprised that the garlic treatment didn't do much for me, and I'm beginning to suspect the problem is very well entrenched, because I made the effort to take the garlic (2-4 cloves) 3 times per day for a week.
I'm sorry if my approach is frustrating but I'm grasping at straws here. I'm just really tired of gut issues and am having trouble overcoming skepticism that something so mild would fix such a long standing problem. Actually I used to eat a ton of raw honey when I was doing an Aajonus Vonderplanitz type diet, lots of raw dairy blended with raw honey and eggs. But I will make a real effort with this honey/cinnamon thing and give it a chance. I just thought up an idea that I could get a bunch of tiny jars and make 8 doses every morning and bring a bunch of them with me or something like that.

 

[Derek]

I've been doing it with alfalfa honey (my favorite) and am about to open a jar of orange blossom (2nd fave). But I will head over to the store soon and get a big ole jar of wild flower for this purpose.
The reason I have trouble doing it is more time than anything. I can do it in the morning first thing, then bring it with me to work and do it once or twice there, then when I get home and if I really push it again right before bed. That's only 5 times, and that's an effort for me to do something food related that many times. If you're doing it 8 times per day that's almost once per hour, at that right you may as well just make a huge batch and snack on it all day long, rather than acting like it's a discreet thing.
Of course you're right that combining treatments obfuscates the individual effects, but there is a possibility that antibiotics+honey/cinnamon+something else may be able to overcome my gut overgrowth where one of them may not. I was surprised that the garlic treatment didn't do much for me, and I'm beginning to suspect the problem is very well entrenched, because I made the effort to take the garlic (2-4 cloves) 3 times per day for a week.
I'm sorry if my approach is frustrating but I'm grasping at straws here. I'm just really tired of gut issues and am having trouble overcoming skepticism that something so mild would fix such a long standing problem. Actually I used to eat a ton of raw honey when I was doing an Aajonus Vonderplanitz type diet, lots of raw dairy blended with raw honey and eggs. But I will make a real effort with this honey/cinnamon thing and give it a chance. I just thought up an idea that I could get a bunch of tiny jars and make 8 doses every morning and bring a bunch of them with me or something like that.

Well if you have been eating raw honey all this time I don't know how effective it will be. Still worth a try though, and you could do it 4x per day and just eat more honey and cinnamon at a time; it's not so much the frequency of the dosing but the amount of honey/cinnamon you consume. BTW what is your diet like right now? How was bloating when you ate the Vonderplanitz diet?

 

[EIRE24]

I still think the raw honey/ceylon cinnamon would be a good thing to try. It will cover all types of things that could be going on in your stomach. Also, raw honey will help you eat more carbs without bloating. When I couldn't eat starches adding raw honey allowed me to eat them without any issues whatsoever. The antibiotic effect of the raw honey, as well as the high amounts of amylase it contains, will help you handle carbs/starch more efficiently.

What would you advise for someone who doesn't tolerate fructose well?

 

[Derek]

What would you advise for someone who doesn't tolerate fructose well?

Didn't we already cover this in our past discussions with one another?

If not, then what are you specifically asking?

 

[Kyle M]

Well if you have been eating raw honey all this time I don't know how effective it will be. Still worth a try though, and you could do it 4x per day and just eat more honey and cinnamon at a time; it's not so much the frequency of the dosing but the amount of honey/cinnamon you consume. BTW what is your diet like right now? How was bloating when you ate the Vonderplanitz diet?

To be clear I have not been consuming much honey since transitioning from Vonderplanitz to a more paleo-ish diet many years ago.
I'll give it a try. I actually have been trying to do a high carb, low fat diet for weight loss and I can try and just honey it up for lots of sugar calories, so it fits into my plans.
As far as on the Vonderplanitz diet, I was eating a lot of raw meat and higher fat dairy, so I think the bloating was less because of the lower carb content. I'm not sure when the problem started, but from some point between when I was around 18 eating a normal diet, through all of these crazy diets in my 20s, at some point my gut stopped tolerating spicy food (which I used to eat tons of and never bothered me) and I started getting a lot of bloating from carbohydrate. I didn't notice it until I transitioned from low carb paleo to a Peat type, higher carb diet, but my tummy started distending a lot after a meal and hasn't gotten much better. So what I mean to say is that it's hard to pin point when the problem started since it's dependent on what I eat, and I have changed diets drastically over the years.

 

[Derek]

To be clear I have not been consuming much honey since transitioning from Vonderplanitz to a more paleo-ish diet many years ago.
I'll give it a try. I actually have been trying to do a high carb, low fat diet for weight loss and I can try and just honey it up for lots of sugar calories, so it fits into my plans.
As far as on the Vonderplanitz diet, I was eating a lot of raw meat and higher fat dairy, so I think the bloating was less because of the lower carb content. I'm not sure when the problem started, but from some point between when I was around 18 eating a normal diet, through all of these crazy diets in my 20s, at some point my gut stopped tolerating spicy food (which I used to eat tons of and never bothered me) and I started getting a lot of bloating from carbohydrate. I didn't notice it until I transitioned from low carb paleo to a Peat type, higher carb diet, but my tummy started distending a lot after a meal and hasn't gotten much better. So what I mean to say is that it's hard to pin point when the problem started since it's dependent on what I eat, and I have changed diets drastically over the years.

If you were eating a lot of honey on the Vonderplanitz diet than how was the overall diet low carb? You were getting carbs from milk as well. And if you didn't have bloating on that diet, maybe the higher fat was helpful to you. This might sound crazy but have you ever thought about going back to your "normal diet" you ate when you were a teenager? It seems you were better on that diet than any of the "healthy" diets.

 

[Kyle M]

This might sound crazy but have you ever thought about going back to your "normal diet" you ate when you were a teenager? It seems you were better on that diet than any of the "healthy" diets.

Oh yes I've thought about it, it bothers my gut just as much when I try to eat my teenage diet. It was a lot of sandwiches, pizza, Japanese, and I put crushed red peppers and other spicy condiments on everything. I cannot do that now without bloating and cramps from the spices. I get what you're saying though, and I believe it is more than 50/50 likely that the extreme experimentation I did over about a decade led to my SIBO condition. Unfortunately it seems to be here to stay for now and I need some way to get back to that healthier gut state. I would gladly eat any diet that fixed it, but the way I think of healthy diet now is to eat as much of what you think is healthy as you can and not worry about too much about eating out or with friends occasionally. I'm far from the orthorexic diet obsessed person I was when I was discovering raw veganism and that whole cultish thought process, but I do believe in some basic biological principles and the Ray Peat type ideas seem to make sense. But again, it's the gut thing that is keeping me from eating what I used to eat, I'd love nothing more than to head to a Thai restaurant for dinner tonight and have a spicy green curry shrimp dish with tons of vegetables and rice, but depending on how I react (it's variable) that could knock me out for the night with bloating and all of tomorrow with stomach cramps until the chili residue works its way out.