Has Anyone Here Successfully Resolved "SIBO" Or Major Stomach Bloating? With Peating Or Anything Els

[FredSonoma]

My stomach is always very bloated... I think this is "SIBO" or some kind of bacterial overgrowth. I think it prevents me from being able to eat a lot of things... and I suspect that not being able to eat of lot of things inevitably has a bad effect on my overall health.

Has anyone used Peating or any other technique and successfully resolved chronic stomach bloating? What did you do?

 

[Spondive]

I have same problem..interesting and following
I started taking Rifaximin for SBO and I had increased bloating and had to stop at 3 days on a 10 day course because I had such bad headaches..I wonder if that was a die off effect?

 

[milk_lover]

Are you taking supplements that might have "bad" fillers?

Are you eating starch which might feed sibo?

Are you drinking a lot of calories without enough salt?

Are you eating food whom you're allergic to? milk, honey, coconut oil, etc.,?

Do you do any protocol to have a frequent pooping? daily carrot, occasional cascara sarcada, magnesium supplement (transdermal is effective), vitamin k2 (which I think is from the same group as emodin, the active ingredient in cascara, thus is good probably for gut bacterial), etc.,

How is your thyroid? I think Peat said sibo is often a symptom of low thyroid.

Since most of the thyroid conversion occurs in the liver, how do you assess your liver?

I am just giving speculations here.

 

[barefooter]

My stomach is always very bloated... I think this is "SIBO" or some kind of bacterial overgrowth. I think it prevents me from being able to eat a lot of things... and I suspect that not being able to eat of lot of things inevitably has a bad effect on my overall health.

Here's my thoughts, based on past failures and recent progress. I think starting a Peat diet a couple years ago actually caused me to have SIBO. I already had low metabolism and the resultant slow digestion, and adding lots of milk (which I wasn't digesting well), drinking too much juice, and over eating in an attempt to fire up my metabolism just made things worse. Obviously this was a formulaic and misguided approach to getting well, and not a fault of Peat's general ideas. As you noted, the problem with SIBO is you can't eat the foods that will improve your metabolism and get you over SIBO, so it's a kind of chicken-egg problem that requires more strategy than just pounding lots of nutrient dense foods. For me, it's been quite a difficult hole to dig out of, but I feel like things have been getting a lot better for me recently, and here's what I've found helpful.

I think meal timing is very important. If you have sluggish digestion which is giving the bacteria too much time to eat your food, it's very important to eat during the times when your metabolism is the highest. In my experience, this means making lunch the biggest meal, or having a very early dinner, to prevent eating too much after the sun has gone down and metabolism is slowed. I also don't eat breakfast immediately upon waking, and give my body time to warm up with some light movement, and even something like a warm shower or heat lamp exposure first thing, can help get your metabolism firing to handle a good breakfast. While Peat recommends eating before bed to improve sleep, I think this is likely to be a very bad idea in cases of SIBO.

It may also help to rev up your metabolism with caffeine or thyroid, and work on improving liver heath. Actually it would be preferable to do both of these. There are many threads on here about this, so doing some searching should give you potential options. Particularly at meal time seems useful to make sure digestion is as fast as possible.

Get as much exposure to red light as you can. I try to lay under my heat lamp (naked for full exposure) before and after meals, as well as first thing in the morning. Of course, work gets in the way of the daytime exposure on weekdays, but I do what I can. If it's summer, eating outside in the sun may be preferable, but assuming you don't live south of the equator, that's a ways off still.

Don't overeat! This was a huge mistake I made when I started Peating, thinking that it would help rebuild my health quicker. If your digestion is already sluggish, filling your stomach too full is a sure way to let the bacteria have plenty of time to chow down and multiply rapidly. Eating more often and smaller amounts is preferable to keep the metabolism high and transit time low.

If after a while you can't find anything that works, you can always try antibiotics. I think the main problem with that approach, is that if you haven't fixed your metabolism, and you go on antibiotics, there is a good chance the bacteria will just come back, and a potential for things to be even worse depending on which ones take up residence.

Finally, and this may seem obvious, but figure out which foods work best for you, and keep to a simple diet that makes you feel good. Don't drink milk or other things just because people say they are good, make sure they actually work for you. Be especially leary of powdered gelatin, I've read many accounts of that stuff causing people bad bacterial overgrowth.

 

[Nicholas]

sometimes bacteria issues could be from (in this order) environmental stress reducing stomach acid, not regulating blood sugar, from protein deficiency, from low stomach acid. sometimes it can be all 4.

 

[thegiantess]

How are your teeth? Regular cleanings? I ask bc I had gut issues for many years that I could never pin down. I chased around the problems and experimented with A LOT of things that never worked. I had generally neglected my teeth bc I was otherwise extremely healthy.. Very very rarely sick.. Not even sniffles so I thought tooth/gum health didn't really matter much and that my mouth was some sort of ecosystem that could take care of itself. Stupid. Anyway, I finally saw a forward thinking dentist who aside from wanting to get my teeth cleaned (hadn't been in like 15 years) also wanted to test the bacteria present in my gums and he hooked me up with a naturopath that did a stool culture. Sure enough, my gut bacteria were all out of whack and were heavily populated with bad bacteria that generally reside in the mouth. The mouth bacteria culture showed that I had way too many of the bad things and way too few good things. Anyway, after some painful cleanings and a few months, my gut was better. That was it. So simple, yet I would have never made the connection. If this doesn't apply to you at all, sorry for the long response!

 

[lexis]

jujubes and bitter gourd are said to be useful

 

[XPlus]

I had some badly troubled digestion about a year ago and feel almost 100% normal now.

I think it's a matter of time and doing the right things like low starch, low fiber, fixing metabolism and getting a lot of rest and light.

Correcting metabolic functions and getting the right temps and pulse consistently through food (and perhaps thyroid supplementation) jump starts the healing process. It restores enzyme-production and gut motility as well as strengthen the immune system.

Antibiotics, like tetracycline help a lot on the short-term giving the system a short period off bacterial overgrowth.
Cascara helps clear inflammation and keep motility at pace.
Activate Charcoal is a very effective toxin-sweeping agent (carrot salad does the same job and is more reasonable to use on the long-term)
Serotonin antagonists like LSD, cyproheptadine are very powerful in normalising neuro-related gut dysfunction (i.e. the IBS component)
I don't usually do those last 4 things more than 1-2 weeks at once.

Low-dose Niacinamide helps restore liver's health (Haidut's BCAA+ other aminos combo might help do this by lowering serotonin but NA I think has broader array of direct effects)
Aspirin has some anti-fungal properties along with it's anti-inflammatory activity.

Vitamin D and magnesium deficiency I think are highly correlated with gut trouble. Although I'm not a fan of supplementing large amounts of D on the short-term, getting it more often in small doses seems to help a lot if you happen to have deficiency.

 

[LucH]

post 112955 My stomach is always very bloated... I think this is "SIBO" or some kind of bacterial overgrowth.

Maybe yes maybe sth more ...

Abdominal bloating (gas)
=> food association

Other symptoms as (Reflux or GERD)
=> Hypo chloride

Leaky Gut Symptoms
=> some protein molecule aren't well digested and pass through, into blood circulation.
See gluten problems.
http://jacquelinelagace.net/tag/english-version/

Fatigue & Mood symptoms
=> bacteria overgrowth and / or thyroid problems

Malabsorption Symptoms & Anemia (Iron or B12)
Weight Loss
=> methylation defect and / or leaky gut and / or ...

There are other possibilities. That a "clue game".

 

[Kyle M]

Greetings all, I was searching the forum for SIBO, which seems to be my biggest health challenge, so am making my first forum post in this mildly old SIBO thread. The experiences I'm reading here seem to mirror my own, so I will add mine.
First of all I remember having normal or good digestion as a child and young adult. I specifically remember being able to eat tons of very spicy foods, I put crushed red peppers and other chili condiments on everything, and never had cramps or pains from it, and never any bloating. In high school I started lifting weights and sort of over eating to gain muscle, and everything digested just fine.
Skip to college where I met some leftists who were into vegetarianism among other things, and my diet experimentation began.
I went through a normal vegetarian phase for a time, relatively quickly moving towards a more hard-core veganism and eventually settling for a long time (2 or so years) on various raw vegan diets. This was from ages 19-22/23 or so and saw me lose most of my hard gained muscle. I then started reading about eating raw animal foods on a raw vegan forum and became influenced by Aajonus Vonderplanitz. I began early on adding in raw cheeses to salads, I bounced back and forth between the high fruit version and the high fat version of raw vegan, and then after coming well under Vonderplanitz influence boldly jumped into all raw dairy and meats. I gained some weight back and was able to finally rebuild some muscle. Then I slowly shifted towards a more paleo-ish diet, focusing less on dairy and raw-ness and more on low carb and eating a lot of animal fat and organs. I did a mostly raw paleo diet for about a year or 2, and then finally heard about Ray Peat and his ideas when I started graduate school for nutrition. At this point I am 27 and doing ok on my raw meat based diet, or so I thought, and I was slow to switch.
The duel experience of delving more into nutritional science in graduate school and having this nagging Ray Peat stuff in my head finally overwhelmed my habits and I quickly added back in carbs in the form of orange juice, milk, putting plenty of sugar in coffee etc. That's when the bloating hit full force, and is still mostly present. I have learned since then how to control it a little bit, and have experimented with tons of things, though not all at once and not all long term or very consistently. I have tried raw carrot salad, bamboo shoots and the other antibiotic foods Peat recommends and haven't felt much from them. I went on a course of Rifaximin but that didn't really help very much, I forget the dose and number of days but it was something like a week, I've read studies since then that used longer courses and most likely higher dosage so maybe that was a factor. A few months ago I was really into supplementing HCl during meals because I suspected low stomach acid may be a factor, I didn't notice much except a slight burning when I took too many pills once with a small low protein meal. I've also tried a course of herbal antibiotics that I read about in a paper comparing them to Rifaximin and showing them as effective or more so. They are the Candibactin AR and BR pills and gel caps. All of this has had little enough success to be unremarkable, my symptoms are less intense than when they first arose but that is likely from me knowing what foods and ways of eating to avoid.
In the midst of all of this I have had ups and downs, sometimes seemingly being able to eat a large mixed meal and feel decent, sometimes a smaller meal makes me feel super bloated. Spicy foods, if I indulge anywhere close to what I like to do, cause pretty severe cramps until it's out of my system. That is another reason I suspected hypochloridia, the capsaicin maybe isn't being broken down enough?
That's the story in a nutshell, and since I was on so many diets in my 20s I can't pin down when it started. When I would cheat on my diets I would feel crappy and bloated, but I always put that down to the cheat foods being bad for me. During a talk with a naturopath who specializes in SIBO, I think she has the SIBOinfo.com site, she mentioned food poisoning as a possible trigger. When I was 18 or so I had a bought of that from a family holiday party that a bunch of sick relatives came to, but that doesn't seem to line up either. I also do not have slow transit time, I have multiple bowel movements per day and in the case of spicy food can "feel" that being expelled within a day of eating it. The bloating is also very fast, and occurs even in a pure sugar meal, telling me either the bacteria is very high up in my GI, my absorption is poor, or the gut movement is so rapid that is forces the bolus lower in the GI much faster than normal.
Anyway that's my (long) story, I am very interested in comparing notes with others who have had similar experiences. Thanks!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi Kyle M...your story is very similar to mine. Bloating and digestive duress after adding carbs back in to the diet, although I had gut issues prior to finding Peat which is why I went low carb to begin with. Anyhow, I can totally relate and it sounds like your gut issues are affecting your quality of life.

My own experience has been that it was nearly impossible to eat enough calories, let alone ABSORB enough nutrients to raise metabolism adequately in order for my own immune system to correct the gut flora imbalance. As you know I had to intervene (take some extreme measures) to get ahead of the effed up gut situation, but I'm much older than you and female so hopefully you'll fix your situation much more quickly and won't need to go to extreme lengths.

Crushed Raw Organic Garlic can cure SIBO. You need to take a few cloves and put them through a garlic press and crush them to release the enzymes, do this into a glass of water (a few ounces) and set the kitchen timer for 15 minutes to allow the enzymes to develop. When the timer goes off shoot the whole thing, bits and all. It might cause a burning sensation and a headache, that goes away after a few minutes. Repeat this process 3 times a day for at least a week. Raw garlic is anti-bacterial AND anti-fungal, it also dissolves bio-films.

It's kinda brutal and certainly stinky, but very safe and effective especially for eradicating bugs that have migrated higher up in the digestive tract where they don't belong.

Ultimately you will need to address WHY the overgrowth....might be low stomach acid, hypothyroidism or other parasites which may be affecting bile/ph of the duodenum etc. A chronic gut infection leads to long term irritation, the simple act of eating (doesn't matter what the food is) will exacerbate the situation and it's seems as though the body speeds up transit time to try and rid itself of the irritation/overgrowth.

Using an herbal anti-microbial is a quick fix, but be sure to listen to your own body. Eat densely nutritious food in order to rebuild immunity/muscle mass/metabolism.

I hope you find what works for you....and please keep us posted!!!

p.s. I would strictly avoid all GMO's (Round Up Ready Crops). I think the residual glyphosate destroys healthy gut bacteria.

 

[Barry Obummer]

I can't find the study but I remember ready that this Gastroenterologist imaged guts of people and measured distention, pressure, and gas amounts. He came to the conclusion that bloating was probably due to fatigued abdominal muscles. This is why people are frequently bloated at night and feel empty in the morning. It's due to the fact that the abdomnial muscles were able to rest.

 

[Kyle M]

Yes on the history of eating raw meat, yes on high up bloating. I don't know about the testing, but I imagine it's microscopy. Good point. I guess I will ask my Dr. when I have the follow up visit. The WBC test said "no visible" so that is almost certainly a microscopy test with no molecular nothing. If I have to collect 3 days worth of poop again to have a real test to make sure, I'm going to be very upset.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Do you have any symptoms of being hypothyroid? Do you have a history of constipation or slow transit in the past?

I know your food comes through too quickly on occasion now, but is it fully digested? How is your energy level?

I think that you are way too young to be experiencing poor digestion. Seems to me you are in your prime and ought to be able to eat anything you like, digesting and assimilating nutrients effortlessly. You don't take fish oil, do you?

Parasites are notoriously difficult to diagnose, especially in the USA. If your symptoms are somewhat sporadic, appearing to be on the mend and then come back again I would bet that you have some sort of parasite....especially given your dietary history.

There are many organisms that could be the cause of your digestive duress: protozoa, amoebas, flukes, worms, pathogenic bacteria and yeast imbalance etc. Most of the time a healthy immune system will deal with it, but if you spent some time not getting enough nutrition or were stressed for whatever reason, perhaps you were not able to mount an effective defense?

I hope you find the tests to be helpful.....but if not, please don't despair. There are lots of safe things you can experiment with on your own and based on your reaction you will be able to hone in on what ails you.

 

[DaveFoster]

Carrot salad and liberal amounts of coconut oil did wonders for my IBS. High doses of aspirin and inflammatory supplements made it worse.

 

[Kyle M]

Do you have any symptoms of being hypothyroid? Do you have a history of constipation or slow transit in the past?
Not really, I haven't had much constipation in the past.

I know your food comes through too quickly on occasion now, but is it fully digested? How is your energy level?
My poop looks like poop in the toilet, that's about all I can say. I find judging energy level to be similar to astrology, you can convince yourself and others depending on how you word it that you have more or less energy.

I think that you are way too young to be experiencing poor digestion. Seems to me you are in your prime and ought to be able to eat anything you like, digesting and assimilating nutrients effortlessly. You don't take fish oil, do you?

No fish oil, I have been following a relatively Peaty diet for a few years now after ending a many-years experiment on a very low carb, high meat and animal fat (mostly raw) diet. I felt and looked better then (no bloating after eating, and was thinner) but that was probably because I wasn't feeding bacteria much with the super-low carbs.

 

[Barry Obummer]

Sometimes I can eat a lot and not feel bloated, and other times I have fasted for over 24 hours and will randomly feel bloated. It makes me think mental outlook plays a huge part in digestion/bloating.

 

[Kyle M]

I have varying levels of symptoms too but it's consistent enough for me to believe there is something physiological going on. Especially when the bloating is high up in the gut, very soon after eating (<30 minutes).

 

[thebigpeatowski]

bloating is high up in the gut, very soon after eating (<30 minutes).

This suggests to me that perhaps there are microbes where they don't belong....it should be pretty much sterile (due to acidity from HCL) in your stomach/duodenum/small intestine. So does this bloating/irritation then trigger the rapid transit of food located further down in the intestines on occasion?

You've already tried betaine HCL and felt the burn so it's likely that you are producing enough stomach acid, which is very good. No constipation/hypothyroidism is great!

 

[mayweatherking]

what is your zinc and b6 intake on a daily basis? they are the precursor to.... stomach acid !!