Green tea on DHT: should Alpha Energy Male avoid it?

[Hans]

Green tea on DHT: should Alpha Energy Male avoid it? » TESTONATION

Avoid green tea if you want high DHT! Or; drink green tea against hair loss! In this article, I’m going to discuss if green tea actually lowers DHT and how it might help hair loss. The reason why people thought that green tea might lower DHT, is because people from Asia drink a lot of ... Read more

men-elite.com

It's commonly believed that green tea lowers DHT. However, mouse studies show that green tea (and EGCG) doesn't lower DHT, but might actually increase DHT.

I prefer coffee, but when I drank it in the past, I haven't noticed anything positive or negative from it. What's been your experience with green tea?

 

[Glacier_Sama]

Green tea on DHT: should Alpha Energy Male avoid it? » TESTONATION

Avoid green tea if you want high DHT! Or; drink green tea against hair loss! In this article, I’m going to discuss if green tea actually lowers DHT and how it might help hair loss. The reason why people thought that green tea might lower DHT, is because people from Asia drink a lot of ... Read more

men-elite.com

It's commonly believed that green tea lowers DHT. However, mouse studies show that green tea (and EGCG) doesn't lower DHT, but might actually increase DHT.

I prefer coffee, but when I drank it in the past, I haven't noticed anything positive or negative from it. What's been your experience with green tea?

Whole green tea is good for Testosterone and DHT. Green Tea Extract will inhibit 5 alpha reductase.

 

[Mister]

Try to avoid it.

Is black tea better?

 

[Hans]

Whole green tea is good for Testosterone and DHT. Green Tea Extract will inhibit 5 alpha reductase.

Is that from your experience or from the research you've seen?
Because based on the research, green tea extract can increase T and EGCG doesn't lower T or DHT.

 

[Hans]

Try to avoid it.

Is black tea better?

Based on animal studies, green tea increases DHT whereas black tea lowers it.

 

[Glacier_Sama]

Is that from your experience or from the research you've seen?
Because based on the research, green tea extract can increase T and EGCG doesn't lower T or DHT.

The thing is, Whole green tea as well as green tea extract are more than just EGCG. I could see green tea extract increasing Testosterone by means of inhibiting 5AR, and I could see whole Green Tea increasing DHT by counteracting whatever compound is inhibiting 5AR in Green Tea Extract.

There are some major differences between the two studies in your article. The first one is mice drinking whole green tea resulting in substantially increased DHT, and the second study was mice receiving Testosterone injection + topical EGCG resulting in relatively no change to DHT.

The fact that the topical EGCG study had no effect on DHT shows that whole Green Tea vs Green Tea Extract or vs just EGCG is likely to provide different results. Oral vs Topical administration makes comparison even more complicated.

Topical EGCG may not have negative effects on DHT, but your article and the second study make mentions about EGCG and ECG inhibiting 5AR, so on the other hand, oral green tea extract very well may lower DHT.

There must be a compound in orally consumed, whole green tea that is blocking the 5AR inhibiting effects of EGCG and ECG since the mice in the first study got such a substantial DHT increase.

As for my personal experience, I use green tea to increase DHT and alleviate PFS type symptoms.
In the past, I've taken supplements containing Green Tea Extract and it gave negative symptoms as if I had taken a 5AR inhibitor. Unfortunately I'm quite sensitive to these.

 

[Hans]

The thing is, Whole green tea as well as green tea extract are more than just EGCG. I could see green tea extract increasing Testosterone by means of inhibiting 5AR, and I could see whole Green Tea increasing DHT by counteracting whatever compound is inhibiting 5AR in Green Tea Extract.

There are some major differences between the two studies in your article. The first one is mice drinking whole green tea resulting in substantially increased DHT, and the second study was mice receiving Testosterone injection + topical EGCG resulting in relatively no change to DHT.

The fact that the topical EGCG study had no effect on DHT shows that whole Green Tea vs Green Tea Extract or vs just EGCG is likely to provide different results. Oral vs Topical administration makes comparison even more complicated.

Topical EGCG may not have negative effects on DHT, but your article and the second study make mentions about EGCG and ECG inhibiting 5AR, so on the other hand, oral green tea extract very well may lower DHT.

There must be a compound in orally consumed, whole green tea that is blocking the 5AR inhibiting effects of EGCG and ECG since the mice in the first study got such a substantial DHT increase.

As for my personal experience, I use green tea to increase DHT and alleviate PFS type symptoms.
In the past, I've taken supplements containing Green Tea Extract and it gave negative symptoms as if I had taken a 5AR inhibitor. Unfortunately I'm quite sensitive to these.

What's the difference between whole green tea and green tea extract in your opinion. Tea is an water extract of the whole plant, thus being more or less the same. Yes different extract have different effects but I'm not ready to subscribe to the idea that the extract lowers DHT compared to the whole plant.

Also, there is quit a big difference between in vitro and in Vivo. As with the topical EGCG study, perhaps they just needed a much bigger dose to inhibit 5AR or simply, EGCG doesn't inhibit 5AR in vivo. Oral absorption of EGCG is also quite low, which makes replicating results from an in vitro study very hard (due to absorption, bacterial modification, tissue accumulation, etc.)

Your experience is quite interesting. It might be a dose dependent thing for sure.

 

[Glacier_Sama]

What's the difference between whole green tea and green tea extract in your opinion. Tea is an water extract of the whole plant, thus being more or less the same. Yes different extract have different effects but I'm not ready to subscribe to the idea that the extract lowers DHT compared to the whole plant.

Also, there is quit a big difference between in vitro and in Vivo. As with the topical EGCG study, perhaps they just needed a much bigger dose to inhibit 5AR or simply, EGCG doesn't inhibit 5AR in vivo. Oral absorption of EGCG is also quite low, which makes replicating results from an in vitro study very hard (due to absorption, bacterial modification, tissue accumulation, etc.)

Your experience is quite interesting. It might be a dose dependent thing for sure.

From what I've read, there is a wide variety of content mixture in green tea extract, depending on each individual supplement bottle or brand.

It definitely is no good for me, and I wouldn't recommend to people who deal with PFS, but to each their own

 

[Dave Clark]

Just an FYI. I found out that the Eden Foods company tests their organic Sencha green tea for fluoride, to make sure it is low {low, since tea naturally contains some fluoride}. I mention this because it is difficult to find any company that tests their tea for fluoride levels at all.

https://www.edenfoods.com/faqs/view.php?categories_id=9#:~:text=The%20fluoride%20content%20of%20tea,%3C1%20ppm%20and%202.)

If anyone here knows of a company that also tests their teas for fluoride, please post, thanks.

 

[dukesbobby777]

I used to drink a crap ton of white tea, which is like green tea, but more potent in a lot of its characteristics. Probably 6 or 7 cups per day for a couple of years. Never noticed anything remotely androgenic about it. I would say it definitely had GABAergic effects (perhaps the theanine), which was an effect i enjoyed very much. I also think it had positive effects on the quality of my skin (although that's subjective). If anything I would say it felt estrogenic, what with what I know now (my RP journey, and what I have learned in what feels androgenic/anabolic/estrogenic, etc).

 

[Dainis Spainis]

EGCG Definitely feels estrogenic to me.

 

[John mcclain]

Have a day off hans you are like a broken record

 

[Aleeri]

I have lots of blood tests on various metrics and hormones pre-tea and also after I got heavily into daily tea drinking (4-8 cups daily) for the last 4 years. I get my testosterone and estrogen tested yearly for example among many other things.

I have observed:

- Tea has very little if any effect on testosterone or estrogen on my labs. My values stable, high normal T and low-middle estrogen last few years. Fluoride also don’t matter in tea for me as I have been drinking brick tea and Puerh heavily for some of those years and Black/oolong others, no effect.

- Tea has a substantial positive effect on stress, so much so that I prefer it to coffee. It’s data on covid is also intriguing.

- I think people look at tea and most herbs in a reductionist fashion when really they need to approach it same as “adaptogens” such as ginseng. It’s a cocktail of compounds harmonizing with each other here. The state of the organism matter and it’s not simply an A does B and C does E type of thing. My blood tests has proven that well for me over the years.

Also don’t forget the general mountain of research on flavanoids and Ray spoke about them frequently as well. Tea belong as much in this category as chocolate or some fruits.

 

[Hans]

I have lots of blood tests on various metrics and hormones pre-tea and also after I got heavily into daily tea drinking (4-8 cups daily) for the last 4 years. I get my testosterone and estrogen tested yearly for example among many other things.

I have observed:

- Tea has very little if any effect on testosterone or estrogen on my labs. My values stable, high normal T and low-middle estrogen last few years. Fluoride also don’t matter in tea for me as I have been drinking brick tea and Puerh heavily for some of those years and Black/oolong others, no effect.

- Tea has a substantial positive effect on stress, so much so that I prefer it to coffee. It’s data on covid is also intriguing.

- I think people look at tea and most herbs in a reductionist fashion when really they need to approach it same as “adaptogens” such as ginseng. It’s a cocktail of compounds harmonizing with each other here. The state of the organism matter and it’s not simply an A does B and C does E type of thing. My blood tests has proven that well for me over the years.

Also don’t forget the general mountain of research on flavanoids and Ray spoke about them frequently as well. Tea belong as much in this category as chocolate or some fruits.

Very cool man.

 

[Ismail]

@Hans thanks for looking into this "topic", I've always been a bit weary of having tea after I saw some of those studies - though I never delved into the nuances etc.

@Aleeri thank you for your insight, much appreciated. I've always loved tea, especially being from the UK :)

 

[FitnessMike]

today is the first day I switched from coffee to green tea.

WOW, I can go without meals for so much longer, tea gives me no stress response and zero hypoglycemia.

If my fragmented sleep improves, this will be a metabolic game changer.

 

[Ismail]

today is the first day I switched from coffee to green tea.

WOW, I can go without meals for so much longer, tea gives me no stress response and zero hypoglycemia.

If my fragmented sleep improves, this will be a metabolic game changer.

Wow!

Please do keep us updated over the coming days

 

[Mossy]

As someone who normally gets a stress reaction from coffee, I may have to try green tea again. Before Peat, I drank green tea for the boost and no stress reaction like coffee.