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Anti-Peat Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

youngsinatra

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Feb 3, 2020
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23
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Frankfurt, Germany
What do you guys think about using vitamin D to deplete liver retinol? There seems to be some animal studies that suggest that this is possible.

Maybe with close monitoring via blood work and higher doses of vitamin D with co-factors like K2 and magnesium?
The typical low vitamin A diet is already low calcium so this could work out.

92DA3636-71B5-4C99-AFCB-EDB3F783A86C.jpeg
Response to high dose vitamin D is limited by vitamin A (VitaminDWiki)
„Survey response by 3,355 people to Grassroots Health
  • 34% of participants report taking vitamin A as retinol or retinyl palmitate in supplements.
  • Of those who take vitamin A, the average amount is 5,400 IU per day.
  • Participants who take greater than 5,000 IU of vitamin A per day have a lower vitamin D dose response than participants who take 5,000 IU or less per day,
    but the difference is not statistically significant.“
 

Daniil

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Feb 13, 2021
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Location
Moscow
:). and about whey. yeah I know - it just didnt say in the one I posted. Its only that casein are the dominant protein in milk but you are right and yes that makes whey problemtic from that perspective as well.
Btw. I think you mean bind TO whey protein :). - not meaning to be picky just clarifying in case people dont read the abstract :)
Yes, I forgot to write this word)
 

Daniil

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Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
713
Location
Moscow
What do you guys think about using vitamin D to deplete liver retinol? There seems to be some animal studies that suggest that this is possible.

Maybe with close monitoring via blood work and higher doses of vitamin D with co-factors like K2 and magnesium?
The typical low vitamin A diet is already low calcium so this could work out.

View attachment 30523
Response to high dose vitamin D is limited by vitamin A (VitaminDWiki)
„Survey response by 3,355 people to Grassroots Health
  • 34% of participants report taking vitamin A as retinol or retinyl palmitate in supplements.
  • Of those who take vitamin A, the average amount is 5,400 IU per day.
  • Participants who take greater than 5,000 IU of vitamin A per day have a lower vitamin D dose response than participants who take 5,000 IU or less per day,
    but the difference is not statistically significant.“
I think it might help reduce the symptoms, but I don't think VD depletes the VA. Sunlight, possible, but not vitamin D.
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2021
Messages
104
There are cases of neuropathy when taking B6 in doses starting from 1.8 mg, including from complex supplements.
I agree. I took 2.5 mgs of B6 3x a week and developed toxic levels in my blood. It couldn't have been more than a month or so of supplementation that did this to me. My blood levels were so high they weren't measurable. I had disabling neuropathy. My neurologist was shocked. She couldn't believe that such low supplementation could be so toxic. I of course quit supplementation immediately and ate normally. My blood levels returned to normal a few months later and have been ever since. I think supplemental b6 can be quite dangerous. I don't get any negative reactions from eating foods with b6.
 

Ippodrom47

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Joined
Jun 7, 2021
Messages
56
Hi everyone!
I overdosed on vit A from eating loads of beef/chicken liver and canned cod liver a couple years ago, then dropped all high-A foods, except eggs and dairy, but stupidly added an equal sh*tload of high-carotene foods, to the point where toxicity symptoms became debilitating, and I also was yellow as a Simpson. Now I'm mostly on buckwheat, noodles, chicken, turkey, beef, potatoes. Feeling 100% better, especially this "clear-mindedness" or I don't know how else to put it: my mood is mostly awesome, high energy, and always at peace with myself :))
However, even the smallest amounts of carotene seem to have an effect on me - one golden delicious apple the day before yesterday left me feeling like crap for more than 24 hours. Spices like paprika or red pepper do the same. Hope to feel better soon!
 

maillol

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Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
263
I just stopped any vitamin A like roughly 6 weeks ago. With an average intake of retinol of 50K IU daily for the last year I fear that it might not be sufficient just to go low vitamin A for now.

And yes I have reduced my supplements greatly lately. Just sticking to vitamin E, B1 and magnesium on most days, as without these I feel completely out of whack, but I think they might just help with the compensation of a deeper layer dysfunction/problem.
Try eating a peeled apple a day (for glucaric acid) and plenty of salt (for bile). I know it can feel like you need the strength of supplements but these two things have helped me with detox more than anything else. I mean separately btw not a salty apple lol.

I would also avoid too much caffeine if you currently consume it, until you are more depleted it will just make your detox symptoms worse in my experience. Same goes for beans.

I also found oats were bad, I think you said you ate them, possibly the lutein.
 

tim333

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Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
249
It seems to be a long journey. Any idea why your level stayed basically the same? How is your diet? For me the diet got really boring, so I had to put in more variation again. Do you take caffeine, taurine, aspirin or anything?

It is. It stayed the same because the body maintains homeostasis for serum retinol until liver retinol stores start to become depleted. Fortunately for me I love eating low vitamin A, it's very close to how I'd chose to eat naturally. I don't take any supplements.

I drink 1-2 beers per day, smoke 1-2 organic cigarettes per day and drink one coffee per day. Alcohol and caffeine slow down the production of retinoic acid and smoking heavily depletes vitamin A. I'm not recommending smoking and drinking that's just what I do.
 

tim333

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
249
I agree. I took 2.5 mgs of B6 3x a week and developed toxic levels in my blood. It couldn't have been more than a month or so of supplementation that did this to me. My blood levels were so high they weren't measurable. I had disabling neuropathy. My neurologist was shocked. She couldn't believe that such low supplementation could be so toxic. I of course quit supplementation immediately and ate normally. My blood levels returned to normal a few months later and have been ever since. I think supplemental b6 can be quite dangerous. I don't get any negative reactions from eating foods with b6.
Yep pyridoxine and folic acid are the two most dangerous B vitamins and can build up to toxic levels easily, folic acid isn't even naturally occuring. I personally would avoid all supplemental B vitamins. B12 is an exception if someone is deficient. Once one has normalized their vitamin A status that will have a huge effect on B vitamin status, elevated levels of retinoic acid depress many enzymes including transketolase.
 

Ippodrom47

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Joined
Jun 7, 2021
Messages
56
It is. It stayed the same because the body maintains homeostasis for serum retinol until liver retinol stores start to become depleted.
Hi! Do you happen to have an idea how long vitamin A stores can remain after abusing chicken/beef/cod liver, and then high-carotene foods?
 

sugarbabe

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Sep 13, 2012
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Location
USA
B vitamins get toxic because we are meant to get them all together via our gut microbiome (which is why they are labeled b1, b2, b3, b5 etc and not a new letter for each because they found all of these vitamins produced by gut bugs and the bugs also need some amount of them to get going). Since we all live and work indoors we don't have the vitamin D to keep our microbiome happy thus we don't get the b vitamins the way we had for millenia. People in the north like Grant cannot handle any vitamin A because they don't get the D from the sun. They lower the vitamin A and then they are able to produce enough vitamin D. Always try to make life more simple.
 

tim333

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Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
249
Hi! Do you happen to have an idea how long vitamin A stores can remain after abusing chicken/beef/cod liver, and then high-carotene foods?
It can take years to deplete vitamin A stores. I've been following a low vitamin A diet for almost three years now and still depleting vitamin A. The good news is is that you'll probably experience improved health along the way as you are lowering your vitamin A stores.
 

tim333

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
249
B vitamins get toxic because we are meant to get them all together via our gut microbiome (which is why they are labeled b1, b2, b3, b5 etc and not a new letter for each because they found all of these vitamins produced by gut bugs and the bugs also need some amount of them to get going). Since we all live and work indoors we don't have the vitamin D to keep our microbiome happy thus we don't get the b vitamins the way we had for millenia. People in the north like Grant cannot handle any vitamin A because they don't get the D from the sun. They lower the vitamin A and then they are able to produce enough vitamin D. Always try to make life more simple.
I think there is probably a lot of truth in what you're saying.
 

Ippodrom47

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Jun 7, 2021
Messages
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I've been following a low vitamin A diet for almost three years now and still depleting vitamin A.
F**k! :) I read on this topic that Grant himself said something about 0.5% of vit A per day depletion rate, so it should be more like 200 days, not 3 years :))
I already can say I feel 100% better on low-A days, mainly with regards to fatigue, mood, and energy. Also, my eyes are no longer so dry.
I remember not being able to produce tears when cutting onions to cook chicken liver, when I was... well, overdosing on chicken liver :) My eyes were sore and irritated from the onions, but dry as hell.
 

Mr.Bollox

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Mar 16, 2021
Messages
3,186
Butter is an excellent source of vit A. :)

1 tbsp Vitamin A - 354.86 IU (11 % of RDI)
The Recommended Dietary Allowance for adults 19 years and older is 900 mcg RAE for men (equivalent to 3,000 IU) and 700 mcg RAE for women (equivalent to 2,333 IU).

It is. It stayed the same because the body maintains homeostasis for serum retinol until liver retinol stores start to become depleted. Fortunately for me I love eating low vitamin A, it's very close to how I'd chose to eat naturally. I don't take any supplements.

I drink 1-2 beers per day, smoke 1-2 organic cigarettes per day and drink one coffee per day. Alcohol and caffeine slow down the production of retinoic acid and smoking heavily depletes vitamin A. I'm not recommending smoking and drinking that's just what I do.
arent beers estrogenic couldnt you use a different alcohol source thats less estrogenic. like a fruit sourced one or something
B vitamins get toxic because we are meant to get them all together via our gut microbiome (which is why they are labeled b1, b2, b3, b5 etc and not a new letter for each because they found all of these vitamins produced by gut bugs and the bugs also need some amount of them to get going). Since we all live and work indoors we don't have the vitamin D to keep our microbiome happy thus we don't get the b vitamins the way we had for millenia. People in the north like Grant cannot handle any vitamin A because they don't get the D from the sun. They lower the vitamin A and then they are able to produce enough vitamin D. Always try to make life more simple.

interesting so the b stands for bug!
does supplementing lanolin sourced vitamin d3 make it easier to tolerate vitamin A. or does it have to be sunlight
since gut bugs need b vitamins to get going, would supplementing the b vitamins improve the microbiome in people with poor microbiome
 

tim333

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Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
249
F**k! :) I read on this topic that Grant himself said something about 0.5% of vit A per day depletion rate, so it should be more like 200 days, not 3 years :))
I already can say I feel 100% better on low-A days, mainly with regards to fatigue, mood, and energy. Also, my eyes are no longer so dry.
I remember not being able to produce tears when cutting onions to cook chicken liver, when I was... well, overdosing on chicken liver :) My eyes were sore and irritated from the onions, but dry as hell.
Yeah on his forum I did an analysis of the RDA formula and that associated percentage. For many people that depletion rate is totally inaccurate.
 

tim333

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
249
arent beers estrogenic couldnt you use a different alcohol source thats less estrogenic. like a fruit sourced one or something
Hops have phytoestrogens that do bind to estrogen receptors better than many phytoestrogens but they are still not equivalent to estrogen. I'd be more concerned about estrogen in dairy myself. I don't like hoppy beers, I like mild lagers and I'm not binge drinking either. If you want to find problems with cider you can as well, fermenting fruit juice produces more methanol than fermenting malt due to pectin. I like pear cider but like it less frequently.
 
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