Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[md_a]

Vitamin A supplementation increased mitochondrial superoxide anion radical (


) production (Table 3) and induced lipid peroxidation, protein carbonylation and nitration, and oxidation of protein thiol groups in mitochondrial membranes isolated from rat cerebral cortex, cerebellum, substantia nigra, striatum, frontal cortex, and hypothalamus [67–69, 76, 78].....https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2015/140267/

 

[NatUK]

These healers and health bloggers thrive on clicks. Anything that can be a new fad or new danger generates them views and a sense of esteem...

To provide balance, I personally depend on vitamin A (retinol palmitate via supplement) at the moment.

Copper rich liver like lamb or beef, despite being high in retinol, seem to deplete me of vitamin A.

K2 depletes vitamin A for me and the reverse effect is also true (A depletes K2)

Once again, vitamin A is necessary as a cofactor for antioxidant uptake, it's necessary for proper zinc uptake alongside copper, it's necessary for a proper mucosal barrier, too.

Grant's book should immediately raise alarm bells as it leaves out fundamental knowledge of cofactors.

For me personally I have absolutely been k2 deficient but vitamin A simply isn't uptaken for me in this state. However, high copper intake via liver makes me actively and acutely worse so it appears my body is able to deal with excess vitamin A but not excess copper at current.

Our bodies are incredibly smart but long term stress and sun absence, alongside supplementation and eating away from intuition can cause troublesome holes.

I don't believe a person is truly healing if they remain so sensitive to vitamin A. There are many approaches that remove symptoms for a while but are not actually putting us on a path to healing.

Trial this if it feels right but please please keep that last sentence in mind!!

Have you read all of Grant Genereux’s ebooks?
The evidence is ASTOUNDING.
He proves it isn’t needed. He disproves the study that is used to prove it is needed at all beyond what we i assume naturally store from foodstuffs. If we need it we need VERY little. Of course we are all different, but the evidence that it is toxic is already there. Everyone has their own experience, but I believe the mechanism is complex and I very much doubt it is the palmitate a doing the good.

 

[somuch4food]

I wonder about this case of a boy going blind on a limited diet as an attempt to cure eczema: An 11-year-old boy went blind after following a diet of meat, potatoes and Cheerios

They always put the blame on vitamin A deficiency and vitamin A helps to recover vision.

 

[sunraiser]

Have you read all of Grant Genereux’s ebooks?
The evidence is ASTOUNDING.
He proves it isn’t needed. He disproves the study that is used to prove it is needed at all beyond what we i assume naturally store from foodstuffs. If we need it we need VERY little. Of course we are all different, but the evidence that it is toxic is already there. Everyone has their own experience, but I believe the mechanism is complex and I very much doubt it is the palmitate a doing the good.

He doesn't prove we don't need it. He sets out with an idea in mind and selectively takes compelling information to back up his point - it isn't a balanced arguement.

Help me understand how we metabolise copper without ceruloplasmin and why retinol binding protein is specifically made by the body and its relationship to zinc. Explain how we properly metabolise calcium and phosphorous in the absence of vitamin A?

Explain how a book condemning vitamin A as a poison can completely miss the necessity of cofactors k2 and vit D - the fundamental point that undermines his work.

Vitamin A, K and D must be in balance. Vitamins A and D in balance are key to a healthy mucosal barrier and immune system. Vitamin K2 is needed to properly utilise A and D.

They all work together to metabolise, shepherd and balance the minerals we take in.

A far more balanced conclusion would be that vitamin A is easy to imbalance due to a number of factors, perhaps with a modern diet lacking in k2 alongside (this is just an idea for the sake of example) modern dairy feed perhaps skewing the balance in favour of A over k2.

Also, far more likely, the widespread absence of sunlight on skin in people's lives in the modern day - this is absolutely going to create an imbalance between vit D and vit A which may in turn cause chronic issues down the line. Usage of sunscreen and overuse of soaps adds to this problem.

I'm not saying don't temporarily avoid vitamin A to see how you get on, I'm saying the conclusion that it's a poison is a dangerous and unhealthy position to take.

That's the problem - the guy that writes a balanced research book won't get wide exposure. Dogmatism and fear create a spectacle and can gain traction which can provide a sense of esteem or credibility to a writer merely by having their ideas talked about, no matter how imbalanced their perspective might be.

Do what feels right to you, but also be aware that vit D, K2 and a little magnesium might bring about a far healthier non restrictive non orthorexic balance.

I'm not averse to the idea we don't need huge amounts of vitamin A, but we certainly need some.

 

[InChristAlone]

I wonder about this case of a boy going blind on a limited diet as an attempt to cure eczema: An 11-year-old boy went blind after following a diet of meat, potatoes and Cheerios

They always put the blame on vitamin A deficiency and vitamin A helps to recover vision.

1 cup of Cheerios has 900 IUs of vitamin A, pork has retinoic acid, lamb is very low, apples are low but still have some. His diet still had vitamin A. Maybe even more than many kid's. I say there is something else going on considering Grant also had severe eczema and eliminated all sources and found a cure. This boy had severe eczema and was still getting retinoic acid which is the worst form.

 

[somuch4food]

1 cup of Cheerios has 900 IUs of vitamin A, pork has retinoic acid, lamb is very low, apples are low but still have some. His diet still had vitamin A. Maybe even more than many kid's. I say there is something else going on considering Grant also had severe eczema and eliminated all sources and found a cure. This boy had severe eczema and was still getting retinoic acid which is the worst form.

Canadian cheerios do not have added vitamin A in them. There might not have been enough vitamin A in his diet.

I think what Grant really unveiled with his theory is that inflammation can be caused by an excess of vitamin A and inflammation might be the real root cause of autoimmune diseases. Since chronic inflammation can be caused by many different mechanisms in the body, the root cause might not be the same for different individuals. It might even be the addition of many different inflammatory factors that lead to autoimmune diseases. That would explain how people do not respond in the same way to diet changes or supplements.

 

[InChristAlone]

I was going by that 221 page vitamin A PDF it said Cheerios had almost 1,000 IU's vitamin A. But you are right the original Cheerios brand is not fortified. Still we'd need more information to say conclusively his diet lacked vitamin A. Especially considering the retinoic acid in pork. And the fact that many cultures have to subsist on low vitamin A (and protein) foods.

 

[Tarmander]

A lot of grant's success at low vitamin A matches up exactly with high dose vitamin D experiences. I am pretty sure that you can replicate his success by doing high vitamin D dosages. Maybe low vitamin A simply accelerates that.

I thought cellulite was always about loose skin and muscle tone. The girls with thigh muscles do not seem to have as much cellulite. So basically thyroid and muscles

 

[Brother John]

He doesn't prove we don't need it. He sets out with an idea in mind and selectively takes compelling information to back up his point - it isn't a balanced arguement.

Help me understand how we metabolise copper without ceruloplasmin and why retinol binding protein is specifically made by the body and its relationship to zinc. Explain how we properly metabolise calcium and phosphorous in the absence of vitamin A?

Explain how a book condemning vitamin A as a poison can completely miss the necessity of cofactors k2 and vit D - the fundamental point that undermines his work.

Vitamin A, K and D must be in balance. Vitamins A and D in balance are key to a healthy mucosal barrier and immune system. Vitamin K2 is needed to properly utilise A and D.

They all work together to metabolise, shepherd and balance the minerals we take in.

A far more balanced conclusion would be that vitamin A is easy to imbalance due to a number of factors, perhaps with a modern diet lacking in k2 alongside (this is just an idea for the sake of example) modern dairy feed perhaps skewing the balance in favour of A over k2.

Also, far more likely, the widespread absence of sunlight on skin in people's lives in the modern day - this is absolutely going to create an imbalance between vit D and vit A which may in turn cause chronic issues down the line. Usage of sunscreen and overuse of soaps adds to this problem.

I'm not saying don't temporarily avoid vitamin A to see how you get on, I'm saying the conclusion that it's a poison is a dangerous and unhealthy position to take.

That's the problem - the guy that writes a balanced research book won't get wide exposure. Dogmatism and fear create a spectacle and can gain traction which can provide a sense of esteem or credibility to a writer merely by having their ideas talked about, no matter how imbalanced their perspective might be.

Do what feels right to you, but also be aware that vit D, K2 and a little magnesium might bring about a far healthier non restrictive non orthorexic balance.

I'm not averse to the idea we don't need huge amounts of vitamin A, but we certainly need some.

Well written and thanks for posting!
I would add a few thoughts: You mention the balance between A and D. Yet where is the method to test for balance/imbalance? The K2 issue is also a big question mark...I don't know if it's possible to argue both sides of question very

A lot of grant's success at low vitamin A matches up exactly with high dose vitamin D experiences. I am pretty sure that you can replicate his success by doing high vitamin D dosages. Maybe low vitamin A simply accelerates that.

I thought cellulite was always about loose skin and muscle tone. The girls with thigh muscles do not seem to have as much cellulite. So basically thyroid and muscles

Tar, I can personally attest that loading up on D does not produce the results of a no Vitamin A diet.
Thanks,
Brother John

 

[InChristAlone]

Let's put the vitamin A and D balance to rest.

Spoiler

Some people out on the Wild West of the interwebz like to make the claim that Vitamin D somehow protects a person against Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity, and vice versa. I found one study to support this claim (see bottom of post). However, based on my own experience, the physiological effects of both compounds (both raise calcium in the system),a direct study on rats, and a case study in the literature, the case seems clear that the OPPOSITE is true...that too much of both together will cause a synergy of PROBLEMS from too much calcium precipitating/crystallizing all throughout the body (that's what it does, that's how calcium excess causes disease).

First, let me add my experience to the matter. A person contacted me, saying that they had poisoned themselves with Vitamin D supplements. I said to this person that they needed to do some testing (hair mineral analysis is particularly good at assessing long-term calcium flow in the body, which is relevant to the below mechanisms) to find out where they were at, so I could best help him. He wanted to know how much Vitamin A I thought he should take to "counteract" the Vitamin D toxicity he had given himself. I said I don't know, and I didn't believe things worked that way (this was several years ago). Regardless, I said we needed to "test, don't guess, then address". He was not interested. Fast forward a couple months later, he contacts me again. He had tried megadosing himself with Vitamin A in an effort to counteract the Vitamin D toxicity. He then proceeded to tell me in a nutshell, "it didn't work, and now I have toxicity symptoms of BOTH of them!" He wanted to know what I thought he should do. Hopefully you would guess my answer at this point..."test, don't guess, then address". I have not heard from this person since. That is the first piece of evidence, your honor...

Next, the physiology of the matter...too much of either compound will elevate blood calcium too high (hypercalcemia, which then results in metastatic calcification, which is calcium deposits in the soft tissues of the body). The PubMed links below go to a search that shows multiple research papers showing the following:

• Studies connecting Poison/"Vitamin A" with hypercalcemia (high blood calcium, link must be opened on a computer, not a phone)
• Studies connecting Vitamin D supplements with hypercalcemia (high blood calcium, link must be opened on a computer, not a phone)

Both compounds cause the same problem, simply through different mechanisms. Two sayings that might prove useful here are, "if you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING" and "two wrongs don't make a right".

Then, a rat study using both Poison/"Vitamin A" and Vitamin D (aka calciferol):

Hypervitaminosis A
Hypervitaminosis A
"Calciferol and hypervitaminosis A. Five more rats received the same diet with excess of Vitamin A, and with the addition of 1 mg. daily of calciferol. Fractures developed within all these animals within 11 days, and in some rats, haemorrhagic lesions round the eyes were noticed. At autopsy, no intramuscular haemorrhage was found, but the muscles of the legs had a purple colour suggestive of venous congestion."

Then, the case study:

Hypercalcemia, hypervitaminosis A and 3-epi-25-OH-D3 levels after consumption of an "over the counter" vitamin D remedy. a case report.
Hypercalcemia, hypervitaminosis A and 3-epi-25-OH-D3 levels after consumption of an "over the counter" vitamin D remedy. a case report. - PubMed - NCBI
"Intoxication from vitamin D supplements has been rarely reported but, nowadays, it occurs more frequently. 3-epi-25-OH-D(3) is highly prevalent in adults and it is considered of biological relevance. We report a case of vitamin D toxicity with hypercalcemia, acute renal failure and hypervitaminosis A after consuming an over-the-counter vitamin D supplement.Our data suggest that the contribution of 3-epi-25-OH-D(3) is not altered during vitamin D toxicity, although the serum levels of 25-OH-D(3) and 3-epi-25-OH-D(3) may display a different rate of clearance. The patient also displayed hypervitaminosis A unrelated to diet, possibly caused by renal failure related to the hypercalcemia induced by vitamin D toxicity. Because of the increasing use of over-the-counter vitamin D supplements and the potential iatrogenic hypercalcemia related to hypervitaminosis A, the present case highlights the importance of evaluating both the use of (non-) prescribed medication and vitamin A status during vitamin D toxicity."

So, according to the case study above--in theory--excess Vitamin D via supplements can actually CAUSE Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity, and both situations can CAUSE hypercalcemia. Apparently when the hypervitaminosis A developed, the person didn't become magickally protected against the hypervitaminosis D? Isn't that what these folks are saying should happen, if they are correct? Right??? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Poison/"Vitamin A" is a toxin. Vitamin D supplements are risky hormone therapy. Both will calcify you and send you to an early grave, even faster when taken together. My programs use neither of these, and you are welcome to read the testimonials to the effect of this approach.

Or, you can believe one 30-day study done on rats in 1964 and hope it is right in the long-term. Not my choice, but you can do what you wish. NO, Vitamin D does NOT protect one against Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity, or vice versa.

 

[Lynne]

People tend to talk about losing the body fat with the cellulite thing but I too think it’s related to vit a inflammation rather than amounts of fat as I don’t have much! Good to know I’m not alone. I’d be interested to hear if/how it works out for you with the vitamin a reduction Also. I also have autoimmune skin issues.

I'll let you know how it goes with both issues when I've given it a few more weeks.

 

[Tarmander]

Well written and thanks for posting!
I would add a few thoughts: You mention the balance between A and D. Yet where is the method to test for balance/imbalance? The K2 issue is also a big question mark...I don't know if it's possible to argue both sides of question very

Tar, I can personally attest that loading up on D does not produce the results of a no Vitamin A diet.
Thanks,
Brother John

What dosages were you taking? I am talking about 30k IU and up per day

 

[Brother John]

What dosages were you taking? I am talking about 30k IU and up per day

It's been a long time so I don't remember my dosages but enough to put me in the "you have got to be kidding" category.
Grant has done a great thing for himself and likely others... He cured his own incurable disease and is sharing how he did it. People want to argue with his experiments with Data and Science and not his results.
Arguments on Copper, Vitamin D, K2 etc etc. yet Every day we learn more about the infernal complexity of the interactions of these and many substances and what was yesterday's conclusion of exactitude and certainty becomes just dust in the rearview.. I'll go with invivo results with human subjects that I can test every time.
And given a choice between adding huge quants of Vitamin D.. or simply subtracting a nutrient.... I've done both and for me am getting an answer that does go against "conventional wisdom" ... and I don't care at all.
Thanks,
Brother John

 

[sunraiser]

Let's put the vitamin A and D balance to rest.

Spoiler

Some people out on the Wild West of the interwebz like to make the claim that Vitamin D somehow protects a person against Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity, and vice versa. I found one study to support this claim (see bottom of post). However, based on my own experience, the physiological effects of both compounds (both raise calcium in the system),a direct study on rats, and a case study in the literature, the case seems clear that the OPPOSITE is true...that too much of both together will cause a synergy of PROBLEMS from too much calcium precipitating/crystallizing all throughout the body (that's what it does, that's how calcium excess causes disease).

First, let me add my experience to the matter. A person contacted me, saying that they had poisoned themselves with Vitamin D supplements. I said to this person that they needed to do some testing (hair mineral analysis is particularly good at assessing long-term calcium flow in the body, which is relevant to the below mechanisms) to find out where they were at, so I could best help him. He wanted to know how much Vitamin A I thought he should take to "counteract" the Vitamin D toxicity he had given himself. I said I don't know, and I didn't believe things worked that way (this was several years ago). Regardless, I said we needed to "test, don't guess, then address". He was not interested. Fast forward a couple months later, he contacts me again. He had tried megadosing himself with Vitamin A in an effort to counteract the Vitamin D toxicity. He then proceeded to tell me in a nutshell, "it didn't work, and now I have toxicity symptoms of BOTH of them!" He wanted to know what I thought he should do. Hopefully you would guess my answer at this point..."test, don't guess, then address". I have not heard from this person since. That is the first piece of evidence, your honor...

Next, the physiology of the matter...too much of either compound will elevate blood calcium too high (hypercalcemia, which then results in metastatic calcification, which is calcium deposits in the soft tissues of the body). The PubMed links below go to a search that shows multiple research papers showing the following:

• Studies connecting Poison/"Vitamin A" with hypercalcemia (high blood calcium, link must be opened on a computer, not a phone)
• Studies connecting Vitamin D supplements with hypercalcemia (high blood calcium, link must be opened on a computer, not a phone)

Both compounds cause the same problem, simply through different mechanisms. Two sayings that might prove useful here are, "if you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING" and "two wrongs don't make a right".

Then, a rat study using both Poison/"Vitamin A" and Vitamin D (aka calciferol):

Hypervitaminosis A
Hypervitaminosis A
"Calciferol and hypervitaminosis A. Five more rats received the same diet with excess of Vitamin A, and with the addition of 1 mg. daily of calciferol. Fractures developed within all these animals within 11 days, and in some rats, haemorrhagic lesions round the eyes were noticed. At autopsy, no intramuscular haemorrhage was found, but the muscles of the legs had a purple colour suggestive of venous congestion."

Then, the case study:

Hypercalcemia, hypervitaminosis A and 3-epi-25-OH-D3 levels after consumption of an "over the counter" vitamin D remedy. a case report.
Hypercalcemia, hypervitaminosis A and 3-epi-25-OH-D3 levels after consumption of an "over the counter" vitamin D remedy. a case report. - PubMed - NCBI
"Intoxication from vitamin D supplements has been rarely reported but, nowadays, it occurs more frequently. 3-epi-25-OH-D(3) is highly prevalent in adults and it is considered of biological relevance. We report a case of vitamin D toxicity with hypercalcemia, acute renal failure and hypervitaminosis A after consuming an over-the-counter vitamin D supplement.Our data suggest that the contribution of 3-epi-25-OH-D(3) is not altered during vitamin D toxicity, although the serum levels of 25-OH-D(3) and 3-epi-25-OH-D(3) may display a different rate of clearance. The patient also displayed hypervitaminosis A unrelated to diet, possibly caused by renal failure related to the hypercalcemia induced by vitamin D toxicity. Because of the increasing use of over-the-counter vitamin D supplements and the potential iatrogenic hypercalcemia related to hypervitaminosis A, the present case highlights the importance of evaluating both the use of (non-) prescribed medication and vitamin A status during vitamin D toxicity."

So, according to the case study above--in theory--excess Vitamin D via supplements can actually CAUSE Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity, and both situations can CAUSE hypercalcemia. Apparently when the hypervitaminosis A developed, the person didn't become magickally protected against the hypervitaminosis D? Isn't that what these folks are saying should happen, if they are correct? Right??? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Poison/"Vitamin A" is a toxin. Vitamin D supplements are risky hormone therapy. Both will calcify you and send you to an early grave, even faster when taken together. My programs use neither of these, and you are welcome to read the testimonials to the effect of this approach.

Or, you can believe one 30-day study done on rats in 1964 and hope it is right in the long-term. Not my choice, but you can do what you wish. NO, Vitamin D does NOT protect one against Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity, or vice versa.

Vitamin D only creates mineral imbalance (and likely therefore inflammation) when taken aside from k2. Vitamin A is the same.

I'm not saying vitamin D alone deletes vitamin A, but if you have a vit A imbalance then some vit D ONLY with k2 will allow the stored vit A to be utilised while regaining mineral balance and replenishing stores.

Conversely, a la Morley Robbins followers, vitamin D alone can also get us into trouble and k2 with A will help restore balance.

K2 alone also causes problems in my experience. As I said, it's a balance.

I personally disagree that ANY fat-soluble should be megadosed, and only taken in very conservative amounts. Ie no more than 2kiu D. If you need more than this you might want to look at saturated fat intake or increase fat intake in general, or cease amino acid supplementation, especially those involved in bile production.

Everyone has their own situation but be sure to proceed with caution when consuming high amounts of any fat soluble.

 

[Tarmander]

It's been a long time so I don't remember my dosages but enough to put me in the "you have got to be kidding" category.
Grant has done a great thing for himself and likely others... He cured his own incurable disease and is sharing how he did it. People want to argue with his experiments with Data and Science and not his results.
Arguments on Copper, Vitamin D, K2 etc etc. yet Every day we learn more about the infernal complexity of the interactions of these and many substances and what was yesterday's conclusion of exactitude and certainty becomes just dust in the rearview.. I'll go with invivo results with human subjects that I can test every time.
And given a choice between adding huge quants of Vitamin D.. or simply subtracting a nutrient.... I've done both and for me am getting an answer that does go against "conventional wisdom" ... and I don't care at all.
Thanks,
Brother John

There are quite a few people, thousands, who have had similar results with autoimmune disease taking large doses of vitamin D. The few results I have seen following low vitamin A seem to have many similarities to the results from the high vitamin D group. You not remembering taking probably under 10k IU for a couple weeks a decade ago does not seem relevant to this observation. Unless you want to expand on your high vitamin D experiment...

 

[Brother John]

Vitamin D only creates mineral imbalance (and likely therefore inflammation) when taken aside from k2. Vitamin A is the same.

I'm not saying vitamin D alone deletes vitamin A, but if you have a vit A imbalance then some vit D ONLY with k2 will allow the stored vit A to be utilised while regaining mineral balance and replenishing stores.

Conversely, a la Morley Robbins followers, vitamin D alone can also get us into trouble and k2 with A will help restore balance.



K2 alone also causes problems in my experience. As I said, it's a balance.

I personally disagree that ANY fat-soluble should be megadosed, and only taken in very conservative amounts. Ie no more than 2kiu D. If you need more than this you might want to look at saturated fat intake or increase fat intake in general, or cease amino acid supplementation, especially those involved in bile production.

Everyone has their own situation but be sure to proceed with caution when consuming high amounts of any fat soluble.

Sunraiser, I get that you are trying to help others by posting you information. I would like to know how you personally know when you are balanced or imbalanced? Energy level? Intellectual capacity? Physical strength? Emotional state? Reaction time? Lack of any health issues? Sleep requirements? Vision? Coordination? And then how do you identify what is missing or out of balance?
Thanks,
Brother John

 

[Brother John]

There are quite a few people, thousands, who have had similar results with autoimmune disease taking large doses of vitamin D. The few results I have seen following low vitamin A seem to have many similarities to the results from the high vitamin D group. You not remembering taking probably under 10k IU for a couple weeks a decade ago does not seem relevant to this observation. Unless you want to expand on your high vitamin D experiment...

Tar you jest! Out of what crystal ball did you divine my dosage or duration of my Vitamin D experiment?
Where are the reports of thousands of people being cured of auto immune diseases? And that is "cured" not simply "treated"....
Thanks,
Brother John
PS I am running out of time for responding so don't take it personal anyone if I am not replying..

 

[InChristAlone]

Even if someone said they got cured of their autoimmune disease taking huge amounts of vitamin D, I wouldn't do it. Just like I won't take huge amounts of lugol's hoping to cure something. The only thing I will ever mega dose is vitamin C. And not even in the amounts a lot of people are using. 4-8 grams a day is my limit.

 

[Tarmander]

Tar you jest! Out of what crystal ball did you divine my dosage or duration of my Vitamin D experiment?
Where are the reports of thousands of people being cured of auto immune diseases? And that is "cured" not simply "treated"....
Thanks,
Brother John
PS I am running out of time for responding so don't take it personal anyone if I am not replying..

Check out the Coimbra protocol. I have been reading a lot about it and having discussions with other members here. Very promising for autoimmune. Coimbra Protocol

I simply guessed what your experiment entailed because of past experiments I have seen. People who try really high doses of D almost always mention Coimbra or Jeff Bowles it seems. You would probably remember 30k IU per day, but feel free to correct me if your memory returns.

Even if someone said they got cured of their autoimmune disease taking huge amounts of vitamin D, I wouldn't do it. Just like I won't take huge amounts of lugol's hoping to cure something. The only thing I will ever mega dose is vitamin C. And not even in the amounts a lot of people are using. 4-8 grams a day is my limit.

People with MS get desperate I guess. I am glad some of them took the plunge.

 

[somuch4food]

I'm just starting with book 1. Does Grant ever write about a possible way to help remove the excess retinoic acid from the body?