Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Jib]

Just went I started upping my dairy intake, too. Kind of sucks because now I'm worried I'm further ruining my health having over a quart of milk per day, as well as 5 or 6 egg omelettes with cheese once in a while. I've been on the fence with this "toxic vitamin A" stuff primarily because getting my diet sorted out has been an absolute nightmare. I finally have been in a state of some regularity with dairy as a regular part of my diet. So flipping that on its head, well. I'm not sure about it. However I still have a ton of health issues that have not gone away.

Completely omit dairy, eggs, and orange juice (the most major sources of vitamin A for most people anyway), and what do you replace them with? Nothing but rice/beans/meat doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world. Plenty of "Low A" fruits and vegetables as well that I'm sure would be fine to add in.

Even not going on a completely "A deficient" diet, getting rid of dairy/eggs should be significant. However, this being a Peat forum, I'm wondering how so many people are faring with foregoing the mainstays of a Peat inspired diet: dairy and OJ with a modest amount of eggs. Dairy of course being the most significant factor.

Calcium basically not being important would be a pretty big deal in regards to Peat's research and opinions about calcium intake. Completely omitting dairy 100% from the diet and claiming a 100% improvement in health would imply that calcium is not even necessary in anywhere close to RDA amounts.

 

[Mito]

he mentioned eating 1200-1300 calories daily.

Unless he’s a very small person, his metabolic rate is extremely slow, but according to that last update it seems to be working well for him.

 

[Blossom]

Unless he’s a very small person, his metabolic rate is extremely slow, but according to that last update it seems to be working well for him.

Yes, I was pretty shocked by that amount. I’m 112 pounds and eat significantly more calories.

 

[AK18]

@Blossom where did he mention eating that few calories? He often mentions the opposite, losing weight while eating 3000+ calories.

 

[AK18]

"Even though we had vastly simplified our diets, it was still providing ample calories (3,000 or more) and all the required nutritional elements. "

"My weight has remained the same, and almost regardless of how many calories I take in."

"I was not fasting at all. I was eating lots, and lots of calories too. The extra weight just magically went away."

"when I first went on my vitamin-A elimination diet, even though I was consuming at least 3,000 calories per day, and with lots of fat, I was dropping weight like crazy."

These are all the quotes on calories in his ebooks and blog. Not sure about comments.

 

[tallglass13]

I think the ultimate test now is just knowing if testosterone and thyroid hormones are sufficient. All of his results and the other results from members on this forum that have slashed there cholesterol in half, fixed skin issues, better mental focus and energy Etc. And Grant feels great, and I've asked him to do some Labs which he is planning to do very soon. Anyone else do thyroid hormones or their sex hormones? If those are good then there will be no downside to this diet in my opinion. Getting better blood pressure is another big one that people have seen with this, so it really looks like better health comes from the low vitamin A Diet. We just need to know if the hormones are staying up without the vitamin A like Ray peat says you need to make hormones.

 

[tallglass13]

I have not been consistent on this diet otherwise I would do my hormones, but once I get a consistent streak, like at least a couple of months I will do hormones. For the record, my cholesterol hovers around 220. I'm trying to get down to 170 at least, while maintaining a high normal T3 and the testosterone level around 5 to 600.

 

[Lollipop2]

Unless he’s a very small person, his metabolic rate is extremely slow, but according to that last update it seems to be working well for him.

+1 It is actually concerning. Not sure it is sustainable long term.

 

[AK18]

@Lollipop2 except it isn't actually what's happening. He hasn't written anywhere that he only eats that many calories, and often writes eating many more. The truth of the matter is just that no, his hormones aren't dropping, his metabolic rate isn't slowing down, he isn't nearing xerophthalmia. He's obviously healthy, especially compared to people his age. Peat just got this wrong.

I hope everyone realizes that he can bench press 225lbs, which you can't do as a fully grown man eating 1300 calories a day regardless of how low your metabolism is.

 

[schultz]

A while back on his blog he mentioned eating somewhere between 1200-1300 calories daily.

Oh wow, that's quite low. If he is actually eating that calorie level consistently and only the 3 foods someone mentioned (black beans, rice and bison) and if the bison is lean like he said, I would think his PUFA is quite low. I just plugged roughly 500 calories each of lean bison, white rice and black beans into cronometer and it is saying 1.9g of PUFA.

 

[Blossom]

I’m going to reluctantly retract my statement about Grant writing at one point that he was eating in the 1200-1300 calorie range. I’m certain I read it because another member and I discussed it via email but when I went back to the blog post and it now says “slightly less calories” rather than the above range. I’m pretty sure a grown man would have a hard time thriving long term on that amount regardless. I’m thrilled he is doing well and hope he continues to do so. Reading his books, quitting vitamin A supplements, reducing dietary Vitamin A and eliminating beta carotene altogether has been life changing for me.

 

[schultz]

I’m going to reluctantly retract my statement about Grant writing at one point that he was eating in the 1200-1300 calorie range. I’m certain I read it because another member and I discussed it via email but when I went back to the blog post and it now says “slightly less calories” rather than the above range. I’m pretty sure a grown man would have a hard time thriving long term on that amount regardless. I’m thrilled he is doing well and hope he continues to do so. Reading his books, quitting vitamin A supplements, reducing dietary Vitamin A and eliminating beta carotene altogether has been life changing for me.

Well now I'm curious as to what he actually does eat lol. Someone said around 3,000 cal, but you're saying that might be a bit lower now?

 

[Hermes]

He eats 2400 kcal/day. Some days more, some days a bit less. That's what his reply to my question was.

 

[tim333]

I have normal thyroid function and my serum retinol is still high (51 mcg/dL) after 1.5 years of low vA. Many others have a similar experience. This exposes how flawed some of the science is behind the Vitamin A RDA. It is based on science that shows everybody loses about 0.5% of our vA stores per day...

 

[Blossom]

He eats 2400 kcal/day. Some days more, some days a bit less. That's what his reply to my question was.

That’s much better!

 

[Korven]

Vitamin A is sketchy as hell.

One woman started using topical tretinoin (all-trans retinoic acid) for her acne and after a few weeks she started suffering from headaches, memory loss, unsteadiness and ataxia. When she stopped the treatment the ataxia cleared.

She suffered from chronic hepatitis so liver function was impaired, and the authors speculate that the reduced production of retinol-binding protein was a contributing risk factor, but as far as I know RBP doesn't bind and neutralize retinoic acid? So in this case it must have been the absorption of retinoic acid from skin (which is less than 5%) having a direct toxic effect on the brain.

Scary stuff.

"This report describes a surprising association between topical tretinoin and neurotoxicity. A 39-year-old woman presented with complaints of headache, memory loss, and unsteadiness that interfered with simple daily activities.

The authors speculate that tretinoin was the cause of the neurotoxicity, since vitamin A and synthetic retinoids can cause headache, pseudotumor cerebri, irritability, ataxia, fatigue, depression, and psychosis. Factors that may have put this patient at risk are increased absorption of the retinoid through her inflamed, excoriated skin and increased availability of the retinoid because of reduced production of retinol-binding protein due to liver disease."

NEJM Journal Watch: Summaries of and commentary on original medical and scientific articles from key medical journals

You can find other horror stories online of people reporting that applying tretinoin melted off the skin and bones off their face. And dermatologists prescribe this like candy.

My health took a drastic turn for the worse in 2018-2019 when I started using tretinoin and ate liver 1-2x per week, lots of milk, kale, butter and eggs. It's also around this time when I started feeling "toxic".

Have been doing lower VA lately, somewhat inconsistently because I've gone back and forth with starch/dairy, but have decided to commit to a more strict diet now for at least 1 year as I feel like this could be the root cause of my symptoms.

Grant Genereux's story is just awesome. He had multiple severe health issues and doctors told him flat out that he would be dead soon from CKD. He went on a low VA diet and reversed ALL his health problems. He's now fit and healthy, benches 2 plates which isn't bad at all for a 60 year old guy. Meanwhile I'm in my 20's but can't even workout because I'm in such poor health. Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

 

[julcreutz]

Thought I'd chime in here and tell my personal experience with low VA diet.
In short, low VA diet caused a lot of problems, namely extreme sensitivity to sun, lower energy, worse skin and insulin resistance/bad food tolerance.

 

[Recoen]

What does the low vitamin A crowd say about measles? Specifically what to do if you get measles? The CDC recommends high dose vitamin A to protect against complications. Not that the CDC is my trusted source, but...

 

[YourUniverse]

After doing lower vitamin A for about 2 months, I'm starting to get symptoms of needing liver again. Feels like I have low-level allergy symptoms, more mucus. I have increased my aspirin intake and I feel great with it.
If I'm mistaken and the allergy-like symptoms are not from needing more vitamin A please let me know.

 

[Hermes]

You might experience so called detox symptoms. As the body tries to excrete VA serum levels might raise, and you feel worse than before you started going low VA. I'd recommend you stick to it and see where it goes. It's a long process. It took years to reach toxic levels of VA. I'm in my second year doing low VA and I feel like I'm going in the right direction, but I'm still often sluggish and fatigued.