Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

schultz

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Actually he did just now again claim to eat about 1500 calories per day.

Grant's new post: Six-Year Update - Page 3
Grant's new post: Six-Year Update - Page 2

Thanks Postman.

Edit:

The diet log he posted shows he currently gets about 3.5g of PUFA, but since he previously ate more calories he hasn't been getting this amount for the last 6 years. Presumably he was getting more like 6g or something, which is still lower than most people and probably historically low for him, but not ultra low.

He also mentioned he is on the shorter side (5' 7") and weighs 160lbs currently, so his calorie requirements are a bit lower than a taller, heavier person.

Nutrition calculator: computes nutrition value of a meal
 
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Well, I wouldn't know what to do then. Anyway, in January of 2019 I took an interest in VA and got it tested, it looked rather high to me: 3.1 μmol/l. And then decided to give it a shot. In September 2019 I tested again: 4.14 μmol/l. Obviously serum levels increased as the body tries to excrete VA. It's a bumpy road for sure. Now in July 2020 serum VA levels are at 3.12 μmol/l. Where I left off. The low VA diet is definitely not a quick fix. But hey, everyone is free to try what they believe in. I've found Grant's story very inspirational and surmise he's on to something.
Isn't there a way to fast track it? Maybe getting decent sun exposure on a daily or using tanning beds if the sun is low?
 

Hermes

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Doesn't it sound tempting to fast track something? I think there isn't a cheat code. Orion spoke of bottlenecks in a previous post, and I've found this analogy helpful. Orion mentions supplements that help in the detoxification, like b-vitamins, molybdenum, taurin, vitamin D (sunlight, tanning beds) that support the entire process. Beans are mentioned too at other places, to bind bile acids, but I don't eat those, and starches in general. It's the bacteria. Ray Peat is spot on with this one. I find pregnenolone and cardenosine helpful too.

But I don't know a fast lane. It'd be cool. Tell me, if you hear abou it. I think life is slow and steady. Just in general as a philosphy it's good to be slow. Do plants grow faster when you pull at their stems? See! Always when I try to push something, I and end making things worse. There is something humbling in accepting the status quo, how unpleasant it may be. But I got off on a tangent.
 

LLight

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Isn't there a way to fast track it? Maybe getting decent sun exposure on a daily or using tanning beds if the sun is low?

Repost ->

"Finished and 86 hour dry fast which I did with the intention of healing my overly dry skin from being on accutane for 6 months.

Its truly amazing how effective this practice is, I have terribly dry skin on my arms and to a lesser extent my entire body from the medication and this single fast seems to have cleared it up a good 40%, will be jumping into another fast in two or so days to help clear the rest up.

3 1/2 days of fasting dry has done more for my skin than 5 multi day water fasts have done in the last month."​
 

Hermes

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That's a great result. There's probably other factos involved in skin health, endotoxin comes to mind, which dry fasting may have helped with. I think Nathan Hatch writes about fasting for 48 h to eradicate viruses. For sure, you're not depleting VA in 86 h. That's illusory.
 

LLight

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That's a great result. There's probably other factos involved in skin health, endotoxin comes to mind, which dry fasting may have helped with. I think Nathan Hatch writes about fasting for 48 h to eradicate viruses. For sure, you're not depleting VA in 86 h. That's illusory.

As posted in this same thread or elsewhere, it's possible that dry fasting upregulates enzymes that are involved in VA metabolism.

Edit: as you said, I don't think that in the case of this testimony, all his VA was depleted in less than a week! I think that it could be a way to speed things up.
 
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tallglass13

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Isn't there a way to fast track it? Maybe getting decent sun exposure on a daily or using tanning beds if the sun is low?
Also using a little bit of thyroid will use up the vitamin A. That is according to dr. Ray peat who said thyroid and sunlight is what uses up vitamin A.
 

Recoen

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For what it's worth, I have been doing low vA for about 18-19 months and low calcium has not been an issue despite that I am not eating dairy and getting only about 500 mg of calcium daily (on average). I say that with some confidence, as my PTH is "maximally suppressed" according to Chris Masterjohn's Testing Nutritional Status "Cheat Sheet". My PTH measured 18 pg/mL on a lab scale of 15-65 pg/mL two months ago. Masterjohn says:

"Calcium and vitamin D suppress PTH, while phosphorus raises it. If PTH is maximally suppressed, the body perceives calcium and vitamin D as adequate and does not perceive any crisis of excess phosphorus. The point of maximal suppression appears to be approximately halfway through the normal range (around 30 pg/mL) and may be as low as 20 pg/mL."

Interestingly, my vD was slightly below the lowest lab ranges and I have been fighting to keep raising it through tanning. My vA still hovers near the upper lab ranges, meaning it barely lowered over 18-19 months of virtually zero vA.
Thank you for your input. My 25D was 29ng/mL. I haven’t had my 1,25 tested yet. I spend a lot of time in the sun especially when UVB is up.
 

Hermes

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As posted in this same thread or elsewhere, it's possible that dry fasting upregulates enzymes that are involved in VA metabolism.

Edit: as you said, I don't think that in the case of this testimony, all his VA was depleted in less than a week! I think that it could be a way to speed things up.

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
 

Mito

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He also mentioned he is on the shorter side (5' 7") and weighs 160lbs currently, so his calorie requirements are a bit lower than a taller, heavier person.
The average person of his height, weight, and age would burn around 2000 calories. His metabolic rate has slowed significantly below typical.
FB5BB741-7742-4212-8908-7C899E4F84FE.jpeg
 

gaze

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He’s basically the anti peat, low metabolic rate, low cholesterol, low heart rate, while peat wants to speed things up as much as possible, stating a heart rate of 90 resting is ideal. I guess it’s now an opinion on whether or not you believe that a slower system lives longer or not, I agree with peat cause I felt horrible when my heart rate was as low as 60s, but some people believe intentionally slowing the system down Extends life
 

Tarmander

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Given his recent update and some of the questions in this thread, I reached out to Grant and asked if he would be open to another interview as its been about a year since our last and there are definitely some updates since last year.

What questions do you guys have for him? I will do my best to ask.
 

tallglass13

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Given his recent update and some of the questions in this thread, I reached out to Grant and asked if he would be open to another interview as its been about a year since our last and there are definitely some updates since last year.

What questions do you guys have for him? I will do my best to ask.
If his hands and feet and nose are warm most of the time?
If he can do more labs and especially parathyroid hormone and thyroid hormone?
 

tallglass13

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With the other poster saying that their PTH is on the low end, 18, is absolutely remarkable . Since pth is everything Ray peat stands for essentially, which means calcium is not being pulled out of the bones and put into soft tissue . It also means that the calcium to phosphate ratio is good . And if peoples hormones are normal and their testosterone levels are normal, with cholesterol levels at perfect numbers 150- 170, that means there is no downside to vitamin A elimination. I think these things are key to understanding if this is healthy or not. We are here as a Ray peat followers, but didn't quite see the results we would expect. Then we read Grants work, something Sparks in us we try it, and see extraordinary results within a short period. The next step is to see whether or not our blood work is good. Then we find out that our cholesterol levels have slashed in half, blood pressure is better, skin is better, eyesight is better. The next thing we need to know is if all the markers Ray Peat is interested in, like pth, total T3, warm hands and nose. If Those things are excellent then we are all good. The speculation is Ray uses all of his Vitamin A up because he takes thyroid, and uses calcium to buffer the acidity of vitamin A.
 

Recoen

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Given his recent update and some of the questions in this thread, I reached out to Grant and asked if he would be open to another interview as its been about a year since our last and there are definitely some updates since last year.

What questions do you guys have for him? I will do my best to ask.
Please ask what he would do for the measles in reference to my post about the CDC and WHO recommending high dose to protect from complications.
 

Korven

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With the other poster saying that their PTH is on the low end, 18, is absolutely remarkable . Since pth is everything Ray peat stands for essentially, which means calcium is not being pulled out of the bones and put into soft tissue . It also means that the calcium to phosphate ratio is good . And if peoples hormones are normal and their testosterone levels are normal, with cholesterol levels at perfect numbers 150- 170, that means there is no downside to vitamin A elimination. I think these things are key to understanding if this is healthy or not. We are here as a Ray peat followers, but didn't quite see the results we would expect. Then we read Grants work, something Sparks in us we try it, and see extraordinary results within a short period. The next step is to see whether or not our blood work is good. Then we find out that our cholesterol levels have slashed in half, blood pressure is better, skin is better, eyesight is better. The next thing we need to know is if all the markers Ray Peat is interested in, like pth, total T3, warm hands and nose. If Those things are excellent then we are all good. The speculation is Ray uses all of his Vitamin A up because he takes thyroid, and uses calcium to buffer the acidity of vitamin A.

Yeah that's pretty significant.

Hypothesis:

When you go on a low VA diet and slowly pull out vitamin A from tissues = no longer have antagonistic effect on vitamin D = vitamin D freed up to more forcefully lower PTH?

Coimbra protocol achieves PTH suppression through mega dosing vitamin D. Grant Genereux achieves the same thing by getting rid of the vitamin A.

...Probably way oversimplified and wrong lol.

Magnesium is also a powerful suppressor of PTH (John Libbey Eurotext - Magnesium Research - Dietary magnesium supplementation suppresses bone resorption via inhibition of parathyroid hormone secretion in rats fed a high-phosphorus diet), I also remember @Elephanto posting a bunch about lowering PTH without the need of calcium from dairy.

Never had any problems with my teeth, no cavities, no nothing. After a few months of eating liver in 2018 (never ate it before in my life ) I got a chipped tooth. Wisdom teeth started messing with me as well.
 

Blossom

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Given his recent update and some of the questions in this thread, I reached out to Grant and asked if he would be open to another interview as its been about a year since our last and there are definitely some updates since last year.

What questions do you guys have for him? I will do my best to ask.
Thanks, that’s a great idea. I can’t think of any questions right now but if I do I’ll let you know. I appreciate you being willing to do this interview.
 

tim333

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What does the low vitamin A crowd say about measles? Specifically what to do if you get measles? The CDC recommends high dose vitamin A to protect against complications. Not that the CDC is my trusted source, but...
Hepatitis, measles, mumps, rubella, flu, coronavirus all affect adults far more than children. Adults have higher liver stores of vA and higher serum retinol levels. Why is all this vA that they have not boosting immunity? Mawson has explained how elevated retinoic acid is responsible for most of the symptoms of the flu...
 

tim333

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Thought I'd chime in here and tell my personal experience with low VA diet.
In short, low VA diet caused a lot of problems, namely extreme sensitivity to sun, lower energy, worse skin and insulin resistance/bad food tolerance.
Those are all symptoms of elevated levels of retinoic acid. You started to detox vA and felt worse. Also, if you weren't eating a fairly normal and balanced diet (very common here) then your symptoms could also be caused or exacerbated by factors other than vA.
 

Hermes

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Given his recent update and some of the questions in this thread, I reached out to Grant and asked if he would be open to another interview as its been about a year since our last and there are definitely some updates since last year.

What questions do you guys have for him? I will do my best to ask.
Looking forward to this show. Grant does a nice job at explaining things. I'd be interested in the connection to mental health and vitamin A overload. Clearly, the mental health of many people in the world is suffering. What's happening? It'd be really interesting to hear his thoughts in this regard, and how vitamin A may play a part in the story of the mental decline of a large part of the population.
 

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