Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Dolomite]

I think Grant doesn't recommend cold water fish at all. I ate a lot of kippered herring before coming to eat Peat recommended foods. I am sure that contributed to my vitamin a load. For now we are not eating fish. Maybe in the future.

 

[postman]

View attachment 13047 View attachment 13048This is from ETFOH

Yeah his source is literally a google search lol. I posted a paper on the VA content of fish a couple of pages ago, they had completely different results from the one Grant is claiming. If you can find a single study that says atlantic cod has tons of VA I'd love to see it.

 

[Blossom]

Yeah his source is literally a google search lol. I posted a paper on the VA content of fish a couple of pages ago, they had completely different results from the one Grant is claiming. If you can find a single study that says atlantic cod has tons of VA I'd love to see it.

Thanks, I haven’t attempted to confirm anything myself.

 

[SaltGirl]

I am suspecting more and more that the problem with Vitamin A has more to do with Vitamin D. I remember a few years back people were warning that Vitamin D could be depleting Vitamin A, but for some reason people haven't talked about that the inverse being true. In short, excess Vitamin A is problematic in the absence of adequate Vitamin D.

Although I am not a fan of Mercola I found this interesting. Discusses that Vitamin A might be negating the benefits of Vitamin D

Vitamin A in Cod Liver Oil May Impair Vitamin D Benefits

 

[Blossom]

I am suspecting more and more that the problem with Vitamin A has more to do with Vitamin D. I remember a few years back people were warning that Vitamin D could be depleting Vitamin A, but for some reason people haven't talked about that the inverse being true. In short, excess Vitamin A is problematic in the absence of adequate Vitamin D.

Although I am not a fan of Mercola I found this interesting. Discusses that Vitamin A might be negating the benefits of Vitamin D

Vitamin A in Cod Liver Oil May Impair Vitamin D Benefits

Thanks @SaltGirl, I always enjoy your posts. There's definitely a relationship between the two fat solubles. @Amazoniac has posted on antidote D. This winter was the first time in years that I didn't need to take D after being on low A starting in July of last year.

In other news I tested beta carotene from a white sweet potato (80% of my RDI per cronometer) last night and so far so good. Hopefully this will keep my cholesterol from dropping any lower!

 

[thomas200]

hey guys,
after 6 months of almost no vitamin A, i decided to test myself and add 30% VA last night. About 2 pizzas, ice cream, all that stuff. i was VERY surprised to wake up with even less symptoms than before eating those foods and i’m pretty mind blown

and just to clarify, more dietary fat intake = more VA absorption right? so if I decrease my fat intake, does that mean I’d have less detox symptoms?

 

[InChristAlone]

hey guys,
after 6 months of almost no vitamin A, i decided to test myself and add 30% VA last night. About 2 pizzas, ice cream, all that stuff. i was VERY surprised to wake up with even less symptoms than before eating those foods and i’m pretty mind blown

and just to clarify, more dietary fat intake = more VA absorption right? so if I decrease my fat intake, does that mean I’d have less detox symptoms?

Ice cream has never negatively effected me. I think some people are extremely sensitive to beta carotene though. Also you can't remove the variable that you had a huge satisfying meal which lowers stress.

 

[Amazoniac]

More from 'Women for Nutrition':

"Since progesterone is a chemical precursor of cortisol, prolonged stress would tend to lower the availability of progesterone, unless the adrenal glands are very well nourished. Vitamin A is required for progesterone synthesis, as well as for proper maturation of cells in membranes and glandular tissue. Pantothenic acid, niacin and vitamin C are commonly limiting factors in synthesis of adrenal hormones."

"Vitamin A offsets a protein deficiency, and a protein deficiency can damage immunity."

"Besides the nutrients needed to regulate the estrogen level (protein and B-vitamins) and nutrients needed by the thyroid (e.g., iodine, manganese, and cobalt), special attention should be given to the anti-stress vitamins which are involved in progesterone synthesis (vitamin A, pantothenic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E) and to the nutrients that are known to be "wasted" by excess estrogen: folic acid, zinc, and vitamin B6, particularly. Vitamin B6 is needed to synthesize materials that regulate blood vessel tone and that act as brain modulators, governing sleep, emotions, alertness, etc."

"Progesterone "spares" poison A, and has been used in cancer therapy."

"Low blood sugar usually causes an intense craving for something sweet. It is known that a vitamin A deficiency causes increased hunger - I suspect this acts through the mechanism of blood sugar."

"Progesterone is the only steroid hormone I know of which will cause the thymus to regenerate. "Vitamin" A spares protein, and will protect [] tissues even on a fairly low protein diet (Vits & Hormones. 1977)."

You must've seen this already..

Spoiler: Factors in Steroid Synthesis

 

[SaltGirl]

I have reduced Vitamin A, but not eliminated. At the same time I've been upping my Vitamin D take as winter and last summer were harsh with nary a sun in the sky.

I have noticed that with lowered Vitamin A and a bit higher Vitamin D some of the benefits I experienced with lower Vitamin A intake have been more consistent. I had tried higher Vitamin D before while consuming considerably more Vitamin A and did not have the same benefits. It is why I am thinking more of this connection.

I am also wondering if that's why the Coimbra protocol is working in certain cases, that it might just be Vitamin D "overcoming" the high Vitamin A. We of course won't know unless Coimbra et al check that out. I was also curious about Grant's discussion about the difference between Sweden, Finland, and Russia. I know that Scandinavian countries tend to have higher Vitamin A intake due to various factors, but I can say that last time I checked Finland had the highest intake of milk products which may or may not account for a higher Vitamin A consumption. I just know that where I live we tend to make every single sauce with egg yolks, butter, and whatnot, and even the margarine has been infused with Beta-carotenes to give it a more "buttery" look. Add on to of that the biggest selling cereal here is Cheerios and that is also fortified with Vitamin A.
In short, a lot of Vitamin A sources, but Vitamin D tends to be low because sky is cloudy most seasons.

 

[InChristAlone]

This may be coincedence but I had the most beta carotene in a long time although still pretty low as compared to what I used to eat and that very same night I succumbed to a cold going around. Could have just been stress too. And I always get a spring cold. But it has been about 6 months since my last cold.

 

[Attakai]

hey guys,
after 6 months of almost no vitamin A, i decided to test myself and add 30% VA last night. About 2 pizzas, ice cream, all that stuff. i was VERY surprised to wake up with even less symptoms than before eating those foods and i’m pretty mind blown

and just to clarify, more dietary fat intake = more VA absorption right? so if I decrease my fat intake, does that mean I’d have less detox symptoms?

Should this be a surprise though? Grant has said that taking Vitamin A helps temporarily with symptoms in the short term but are bad in the long run.

 

[Yi at LDT]

Should this be a surprise though? Grant has said that taking Vitamin A helps temporarily with symptoms in the short term but are bad in the long run.

I think it's really easy to question ourselves and the theory given it's scope and the size of the small group of people experimenting with it. I find myself flip flopping quite a lot despite experiencing tremendous benefits so far.

 

[Peatful]

More from 'Women for Nutrition':

"Since progesterone is a chemical precursor of cortisol, prolonged stress would tend to lower the availability of progesterone, unless the adrenal glands are very well nourished. Vitamin A is required for progesterone synthesis, as well as for proper maturation of cells in membranes and glandular tissue. Pantothenic acid, niacin and vitamin C are commonly limiting factors in synthesis of adrenal hormones."

"Vitamin A offsets a protein deficiency, and a protein deficiency can damage immunity."

"Besides the nutrients needed to regulate the estrogen level (protein and B-vitamins) and nutrients needed by the thyroid (e.g., iodine, manganese, and cobalt), special attention should be given to the anti-stress vitamins which are involved in progesterone synthesis (vitamin A, pantothenic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E) and to the nutrients that are known to be "wasted" by excess estrogen: folic acid, zinc, and vitamin B6, particularly. Vitamin B6 is needed to synthesize materials that regulate blood vessel tone and that act as brain modulators, governing sleep, emotions, alertness, etc."

"Progesterone "spares" poison A, and has been used in cancer therapy."

"Low blood sugar usually causes an intense craving for something sweet. It is known that a vitamin A deficiency causes increased hunger - I suspect this acts through the mechanism of blood sugar."

"Progesterone is the only steroid hormone I know of which will cause the thymus to regenerate. "Vitamin" A spares protein, and will protect [] tissues even on a fairly low protein diet (Vits & Hormones. 1977)."

You must've seen this already..

Spoiler: Factors in Steroid Synthesis

View attachment 13061

You have quoted Peat as saying “poison A”.
Is that what he has written in print?

 

[Amazoniac]

Should this be a surprise though? Grant has said that taking Vitamin A helps temporarily with symptoms in the short term but are bad in the long run.

A nutrient toxin that helps immediately and later causes problem is often a sign that there weren't enough nutrients to support it, and it induced their depletion. This is common whenever the person has elevated needs for specific ones or takes certain isolated supplements. Such effect also suggests that you need it, but are limited and can't use it.

Even though a great deal of the carotenoids aren't adsorbed, they're usually consumed in substantial amounts compared with preformed toxins. For example, it's common to consume more than 5 mg of b-carotene daily, and each molecule has the potential to be cleaved into two poisonous molecules.

Most of the toxin dose isn't utilized right away; all it takes with dietary poisonyl esters is to remove the original fatty acids and add the desired ones as needed. Carotenes are more demanding because the majority is first cleaved to poisonal, hydrogenated to poisonol (by reductases), and only then are metabolized normally as such by the esterifying enzymes that use either phosphatidylcholine or acyl-CoA. Herbivores seem to consume more nutrients along with it than humanoids.

There's nothing wrong in being a hippie, but taking a break from manufacturing handicrafts to praise cravings as a guide that's always reliable is misleading. We have to be reasonable about them, there are many examples of situations where people had something getting in the way of actual needs, and if they kept doing what they were doing, they would continue going downhill. In these cases that changes are not abrupt, it can be difficult to perceive where things are heading because you become accustomed to a new standard on every phase, so things can be worsening without your realization (or the extent of it). Not that people aren't improving from a diet that's less toxic, but whenever there's some extreme measure involv'd, cravings have to be interpreted more carefully.

You have quoted Peat as saying “poison A”.
Is that what he has written in print?

Given the recent advances in the field, I tried to correct it for assuming that this is how he would write if it was published today.

 

[thomas200]

Ice cream has never negatively effected me. I think some people are extremely sensitive to beta carotene though. Also you can't remove the variable that you had a huge satisfying meal which lowers stress.

I did feel much less stressed before and during cheating, but I was loaded with stress afterwards and still felt a decrease in symptoms

Should this be a surprise though? Grant has said that taking Vitamin A helps temporarily with symptoms in the short term but are bad in the long run.

Ahh that makes sense
I've cheated like crazy these past 2 days but feel great for some reason, I expect my symptoms to hit back even harder once I'm on this diet again

-

I've been on a very low A diet for about 6 months and have results i didnt think I'd see in a million years.

- much less inflammation
- dry, bleeding skin is mostly faded away
- hair regrowth
- red swollen lips are gone
- in a much better place, mentally
- much less bloated
- collagen is almost back to normal (i had excess collagen production)
- fatigue and anxiety is much better
- skin is still quite pale, despite sun bathing for about 4-5 hours a week
- better blood circulation

I was convinced I was anemic at a point, because of how similar these symptoms are.
I have moments when my detox symptoms kick in, but I feel better by each wave

 

[Amazoniac]

I have moments when my detox symptoms kick in, but I feel better by each wave

Does you (and everyone that has experienced) minds describing these? I'm just curious about what's going on.

 

[thomas200]

Does you (and everyone that has experienced) minds describing these? I'm just curious about what's going on.

well it can vary from person to person. My detox symptoms include dry skin (scalp too), cold feet and hands (for whatever reason), pale skin, vision and mood changes.
My symptoms were worse before. I'd get swollen lips, extreme fatigue, and bloating.

I assume they happened more often to me than others, because I took more dietary fat, which increased absorption. I'm following diet lower in fat now to see how things go - so far so good

 

[Orion]

I am at 6 months today. Still seeing progress in skin, mood, energy, and workout recovery.

Still monitoring left eye presbyopia, hair shedding and deep sleep, hoping for more improvements in the next 6 months.

Two 'detox' symptoms I have experienced @Amazoniac are random deep throbbing headaches(they quickly pass) and a patch of eczema on left shin(healed now). Never got headaches previous and never had eczema before. Also the lower VA free I went, skin would flare and purge, more plugged pores and flaky skin, but with time the skin improves.

 

[Lynne]

Also the lower VA free I went, skin would flare and purge, more plugged pores and flaky skin, but with time the skin improves.

Thanks, good to know, as I get this too.

Ice cream has never negatively effected me. I think some people are extremely sensitive to beta carotene though.

Most vanilla ice cream (not HD, obv) seems to contain betacarotene as a colouring now too, to give it that buttermilk look

 

[Yi at LDT]

Mood changes, fatigue, acne and digestive upset. These are the biggest detox symptoms for me. I question it all all over again every time it happens, and then life goes back to being better then it's ever been.