Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[charlie]

I used to think I could not handle starch. In the context of low protein and low fat I seem to mostly be fine. I do eat fruit with my starch generally though. I feel better with at least some fructose alongside the glucose/starch. I probably wouldn't feel as great with pure starch/glucose and no fructose.

Starch gives me really bad RLS, wrecks my sleep, stops my digestion, and just gives me an all around bad feeling after eating it more then a couple days. I keep trying though. Hopefully that corner will turn soon.

Also per your protein comment... I no longer think meat or dairy is necessary in any amounts... Mike Mentzer, one of the greatest BB'ers of all time, built his physique on 70 gram protein a day. So 70-80 gram is probably an upper cap on requirements, with around 50 gram probably being the upper limit for most other people for requirements... really easy to get from starches and fruit. Not possible to get just from fruit though probably, if that is what you meant. Someone completely sedentary can probably get by fine on as low as 30 gram.

Yeh I am still going back and forth on this. If I could get starches maybe it would be sustainable for me without meat.

Low A fruit seems fine for me when eaten away from fat.

Ditto that.

 

[Cirion]

@charlie one thing you could try if you haven't already is some really high fructose:glucose ratio fruits with your starch. I think close to a 1:1 ratio of fructose to glucose may be optimal at least for someone having trouble with starches

 

[charlie]

@charlie one thing you could try if you haven't already is some really high fructose:glucose ratio fruits with your starch. I think close to a 1:1 ratio of fructose to glucose may be optimal at least for someone having trouble with starches

Will give it a shot.

 

[Louise]

Ok I admit this quote piques my curiosity since I have had to use a CPAP for a year and a half now...

though in the full context he adds "Glyphosate Detox Program AND Nutritional Restoration" on top of vitamin A depletion. What does his glyphosate detox program and nutritional restoration program entail?

To add to Blossom's comment - From what I understand from his facebook postings and posts about it on Grant's blog, Smith offers an online folder with various lists of foods and topicals to avoid and foods (and maybe topicals too) that are ok, and ways to detox glyphosate. I think he recommends Zeolite powder to detox the glyphosate and maybe other ways to detox it. The reason I know about the zeolite is that someone posted it on Grant's blog and if you click on Smith's Amazon page, he has it listed there. Last time I checked the folder was 39. I am not advising for anyone to buy his services or not to buy, just trying to let you know what he offers.

 

[Louise]

Ok I admit this quote piques my curiosity since I have had to use a CPAP for a year and a half now...

though in the full context he adds "Glyphosate Detox Program AND Nutritional Restoration" on top of vitamin A depletion. What does his glyphosate detox program and nutritional restoration program entail?

Stephanie Seneff recommends sulfur containing foods to detox glyphosate and for those with compromised livers, magnesium sulfate (epsom salt).

 

[Louise]

Here is an interview with S. Seneff about detoxing glyphosate (which Smith implicates in A toxicity): https://myersdetox.com/transcript-166-glyphosate-and-how-to-detox-it-with-dr-stephanie-seneff/

 

[Vinero]

I also found this when looking for the other quotes. I liked the part where he says "no doubt".
"There is no doubt that vitamin A is essential for the conversion of cholesterol to progesterone; its action can be competitively blocked by an excess of caroten

I don't believe vitamin A is essential for progesterone or steroid synthesis anymore. It seems strange the body would rely on a toxic molecule to produce important steroids. I think Vitamin A initially just speeds steroid synthesis, the way vitamin A increases cell turnover by stimulating cell division. This is the same process that occurs when people take vitamin A to increase cell turnover in the eyes with the intent of curing night-blindness. Vitamin A doesn't cure night-blindness, it just speeds up the creation of new cells which haven't been subjected to bright daylight yet. Bright daylight causes night blindness. Speeding up the creation of new cells in the eyes or speeding up the differentiation of stem cells by using vitamin A only seems to cure night blindness. This will eventually burn out and deplete the stem cells. I think only cholesterol and thyroid are truly essential for steroid production. Vitamin A just seems to be essential since it speeds it up. This is just a toxic effect of Vitamin A.

 

[Spondive]

I don't believe vitamin A is essential for progesterone or steroid synthesis anymore. It seems strange the body would rely on a toxic molecule to produce important steroids. I think Vitamin A initially just speeds steroid synthesis, the way vitamin A increases cell turnover by stimulating cell division. This is the same process that occurs when people take vitamin A to increase cell turnover in the eyes with the intent of curing night-blindness. Vitamin A doesn't cure night-blindness, it just speeds up the creation of new cells which haven't been subjected to bright daylight yet. Bright daylight causes night blindness. Speeding up the creation of new cells in the eyes by using vitamin A only seems to cure night blindness. This will eventually burn out. I think only cholesterol and thyroid are truly essential for steroid production. Vitamin A just seems to be essential since it speeds it up. This is just a toxic effect of Vitamin A.

I agree with that vitamin A maynit be needed only cholesterol and thyroid. I’m interested in this because nothing seems to bring my Testosterone up into a normal range s I’m trying low A but I’m not as strict but have eliminated the rainbow and eggs and milk and cheese, so far no major benefits after 4 days.. we will see because I will get a blood test after a few months

Also I stopped vitamin A supplement before reading about all this because it would cause me to be dizzy and trigger ocular migraines

 

[peep]

It seems strange the body would rely on a toxic molecule

Lol toxic molecule.

This really gets out of control. Why does every diet or elimination diet have to go into the extreme?
Why cant we stop at saying VA can be harmful in high dosages. Or even normal dosages or keep intake low.
No we have to eliminate it to <0.0000000 because thats a natural thing to do.

Would you tell parents to stop breastfeeding ? @Vinero

 

[Vinero]

Lol toxic molecule.

This really gets out of control. Why does every diet or elimination diet have to go into the extreme?
Why cant we stop at saying VA can be harmful in high dosages. Or even normal dosages or keep intake low.
No we have to eliminate it to <0.0000000 because thats a natural thing to do.

Would you tell parents to stop breastfeeding ? @Vinero

It depends. The mother should have been on a Low vitamin A diet for several months before she is allowed to breast-feed. This will make sure there is very little vitamin A present in the milk.

 

[SB4]

So I found this on the United States Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service website. It says that YUKON GOLD POTATOES contain 0IU vitamin A per potato.

Yukon gold is obviously yellow inside. This would seem to put other yellowed flesh taters in the clear, no? I assume the USDA would have actually tested the A levels and not just assumed it as 0, but who knows maybe not.

 

[Vinero]

I agree with that vitamin A maynit be needed only cholesterol and thyroid. I’m interested in this because nothing seems to bring my Testosterone up into a normal range s I’m trying low A but I’m not as strict but have eliminated the rainbow and eggs and milk and cheese, so far no major benefits after 4 days.. we will see because I will get a blood test after a few months

Also I stopped vitamin A supplement before reading about all this because it would cause me to be dizzy and trigger ocular migraines

4 days is a short time. You should give it a month or so. I am getting all the symptoms of increased testosterone like more energy, better mood, better libido, fuller muscles etc. Cutting out the brightly colored fruits and veggies, milk, cheese, and eggs is a good start. Some days are better than others, but overall I'm feeling better by the day. I am getting healthier by the day. It feels like I am getting younger instead of older, since I'm on the low vitamin A diet.

 

[Ronald1919]

I agree with that vitamin A maynit be needed only cholesterol and thyroid. I’m interested in this because nothing seems to bring my Testosterone up into a normal range s I’m trying low A but I’m not as strict but have eliminated the rainbow and eggs and milk and cheese, so far no major benefits after 4 days.. we will see because I will get a blood test after a few months

Also I stopped vitamin A supplement before reading about all this because it would cause me to be dizzy and trigger ocular migraines

Don't waste time man. Just go as close to zero from the start. 4 days is nothing especially if you have been taking supplements as well.

My intake was extremely high from food sources alone. I had enormous quantities of eggs, milk, cheeses and liver. My symptoms of A toxicity in no particular order: Seb derm scalp and eventually face (slowly spreading) , dry skin, ingrown pimples genital area, increased dandruff, hair loss, costochondritis, tendon/joint pain, lack of libido, lethargy. All of this happened last year when I changed diet to drastically increase vitamin A intake. Never had any history with those issues prior to that.

High Vitamin A is like mini chemotherapy session

 

[Pulstar]

Page 134 of ETFOH. Have you read the books? I think you would get a different impression of the man and his theory by reading them rather than listening to one awful interview and reading this thread. I understand you aren’t in agreement with the theory which is fine but for anyone arguing against it I think the best way to do that is to read what he has written.

Also page 47 of the same book:

"It is called Retinol, a.k.a. Vitamin A
It is also essential, and harmless at low doses. It also has a threshold, or
tipping point, when it becomes toxic."

 

[Spondive]

4 days is a short time. You should give it a month or so. I am getting all the symptoms of increased testosterone like more energy, better mood, better libido, fuller muscles etc. Cutting out the brightly colored fruits and veggies, milk, cheese, and eggs is a good start. Some days are better than others, but overall I'm feeling better by the day. I am getting healthier by the day. It feels like I am getting younger instead of older, since I'm on the low vitamin A diet.

Thanks I’m giving it a go

 

[Spondive]

Don't waste time man. Just go as close to zero from the start. 4 days is nothing especially if you have been taking supplements as well.

My intake was extremely high from food sources alone. I had enormous quantities of eggs, milk, cheeses and liver. My symptoms of A toxicity in no particular order: Seb derm scalp and eventually face (slowly spreading) , dry skin, ingrown pimples genital area, increased dandruff, hair loss, costochondritis, tendon/joint pain, lack of libido, lethargy. All of this happened last year when I changed diet to drastically increase vitamin A intake. Never had any history with those issues prior to that.

High Vitamin A is like mini chemotherapy session

Interesting I’m giving it a chance it’s interesting because even for the last few years I have lost my taste for eggs anyway however I ate a lot of cheese through the years

 

[InChristAlone]

One reason I'm mostly on Grant's side is because so many that I've seen mention their health problems improve from vitamin A will say symptoms return so they have to eat liver again or use a supplement again to ward off migraines or other symptoms. There is no way in my mind that these people become deficient (on a high vitamin A diet such as the Peat diet) in a matter of days or weeks. It is basically acting like a medicine. Here is an interesting collection of quotes:


16 Quotes On Poisons... er, I mean those Magical Drugs our Rockefeller trained quacks prescribe.

1. "The cause of most disease is in the poisonous drugs physicians superstitiously give in order to effect a cure." Charles E. Page, M.D.

2. "Every educated physician knows that most diseases are not appreciably helped by medicine." Richard C. Cabot, M.D. (Mass. Gen. Hospital)

3. "The greatest part of all chronic disease is created by the suppression of acute disease by drug poisoning." Henry Lindlahr, M.D.

4. "Medicines are of subordinate importance because of their very nature they can only work symptomatically." Hans Kusche, M.D.

5. "If all the medicine in the world were thrown into the sea, it would be bad for the fish and good for humanity" O.W. Holmes, (Prof. of Med. Harvard University)

6. "Drug medications consists in employing, as remedies for disease, those things which produce disease in well persons. Its materia medica is simply a lot of drugs or chemicals or dye-stuffs in a word poisons. All are incompatible with vital matter; all produce disease when brought in contact in any manner with the living; all are poisons." R.T. TraIl, M.D., in a two and one half hour lecture to members of congress and the medical profession, delivered at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington D.C.

7. "Drugs never cure disease. They merely hush the voice of nature's protest, and pull down the danger signals she erects along the pathway of transgression. Any poison taken into the system has to be reckoned with later on even though it palliates present symptoms. Pain may disappear, but the patient is left in a worse condition, though unconscious of it at the time." Daniel. H. Kress, M.D.

8. "Every drug increases and complicates the patients condition." Robert Henderson, M.D.

9. "Medicine is only palliative, for back of disease lies the cause, and this cause no drug can reach." Wier Mitchel, M.D.

10. "The person who takes medicine must recover twice, once from the disease and once from the medicine." William Osler, M.D.

11. "Medical practice has neither philosophy nor common sense to recommend it. In sickness the body is already loaded with impurities. By taking drug - medicines more impurities are added, thereby the case is further embarrassed and harder to cure." Elmer Lee, M.D., Past Vice President, Academy of Medicine.

12. "Our figures show approximately four and one half million hospital admissions annually due to the adverse reactions to drugs. Further, the average hospital patient has as much as thirty percent chance, depending how long he is in, of doubling his stay due to adverse drug reactions." Milton Silverman, M.D. (Professor of Pharmacology, University of California)

13. "Why would a patient swallow a poison because he is ill, or take that which would make a well man sick." L.F. Kebler, M.D.

14. "What hope is there for medical science to ever become a true science when the entire structure of medical knowledge is built around the idea that there is an entity called disease which can be expelled when the right drug is found?" John H. Tilden, M.D.

15. "The necessity of teaching mankind not to take drugs and medicines, is a duty incumbent upon all who know their uncertainty and injurious effects; and the time is not far distant when the drug system will be abandoned." Charles Armbruster, M. D.

16. "We are prone to thinking of drug abuse in terms of the male population and illicit drugs such as heroin, cocaine, and marijuana. It may surprise you to learn that a greater problem exists with millions of women dependent on legal prescription drugs." Robert Mendelsohn, M.D

 

[Blossom]

One reason I'm mostly on Grant's side is because so many that I've seen mention their health problems improve from vitamin A will say symptoms return so they have to eat liver again or use a supplement again to ward off migraines or other symptoms. There is no way in my mind that these people become deficient (on a high vitamin A diet such as the Peat diet) in a matter of days or weeks. It is basically acting like a medicine. Here is an interesting collection of quotes:


16 Quotes On Poisons... er, I mean those Magical Drugs our Rockefeller trained quacks prescribe.

1. "The cause of most disease is in the poisonous drugs physicians superstitiously give in order to effect a cure." Charles E. Page, M.D.

2. "Every educated physician knows that most diseases are not appreciably helped by medicine." Richard C. Cabot, M.D. (Mass. Gen. Hospital)

3. "The greatest part of all chronic disease is created by the suppression of acute disease by drug poisoning." Henry Lindlahr, M.D.

4. "Medicines are of subordinate importance because of their very nature they can only work symptomatically." Hans Kusche, M.D.

5. "If all the medicine in the world were thrown into the sea, it would be bad for the fish and good for humanity" O.W. Holmes, (Prof. of Med. Harvard University)

6. "Drug medications consists in employing, as remedies for disease, those things which produce disease in well persons. Its materia medica is simply a lot of drugs or chemicals or dye-stuffs in a word poisons. All are incompatible with vital matter; all produce disease when brought in contact in any manner with the living; all are poisons." R.T. TraIl, M.D., in a two and one half hour lecture to members of congress and the medical profession, delivered at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington D.C.

7. "Drugs never cure disease. They merely hush the voice of nature's protest, and pull down the danger signals she erects along the pathway of transgression. Any poison taken into the system has to be reckoned with later on even though it palliates present symptoms. Pain may disappear, but the patient is left in a worse condition, though unconscious of it at the time." Daniel. H. Kress, M.D.

8. "Every drug increases and complicates the patients condition." Robert Henderson, M.D.

9. "Medicine is only palliative, for back of disease lies the cause, and this cause no drug can reach." Wier Mitchel, M.D.

10. "The person who takes medicine must recover twice, once from the disease and once from the medicine." William Osler, M.D.

11. "Medical practice has neither philosophy nor common sense to recommend it. In sickness the body is already loaded with impurities. By taking drug - medicines more impurities are added, thereby the case is further embarrassed and harder to cure." Elmer Lee, M.D., Past Vice President, Academy of Medicine.

12. "Our figures show approximately four and one half million hospital admissions annually due to the adverse reactions to drugs. Further, the average hospital patient has as much as thirty percent chance, depending how long he is in, of doubling his stay due to adverse drug reactions." Milton Silverman, M.D. (Professor of Pharmacology, University of California)

13. "Why would a patient swallow a poison because he is ill, or take that which would make a well man sick." L.F. Kebler, M.D.

14. "What hope is there for medical science to ever become a true science when the entire structure of medical knowledge is built around the idea that there is an entity called disease which can be expelled when the right drug is found?" John H. Tilden, M.D.

15. "The necessity of teaching mankind not to take drugs and medicines, is a duty incumbent upon all who know their uncertainty and injurious effects; and the time is not far distant when the drug system will be abandoned." Charles Armbruster, M. D.

16. "We are prone to thinking of drug abuse in terms of the male population and illicit drugs such as heroin, cocaine, and marijuana. It may surprise you to learn that a greater problem exists with millions of women dependent on legal prescription drugs." Robert Mendelsohn, M.D

I think this is the best post of all time on this forum Janelle!!!

 

[charlie]

Pure veganism is something I NEVER will support

 

[somuch4food]

One reason I'm mostly on Grant's side is because so many that I've seen mention their health problems improve from vitamin A will say symptoms return so they have to eat liver again or use a supplement again to ward off migraines or other symptoms. There is no way in my mind that these people become deficient (on a high vitamin A diet such as the Peat diet) in a matter of days or weeks. It is basically acting like a medicine. Here is an interesting collection of quotes:


16 Quotes On Poisons... er, I mean those Magical Drugs our Rockefeller trained quacks prescribe.

1. "The cause of most disease is in the poisonous drugs physicians superstitiously give in order to effect a cure." Charles E. Page, M.D.

2. "Every educated physician knows that most diseases are not appreciably helped by medicine." Richard C. Cabot, M.D. (Mass. Gen. Hospital)

3. "The greatest part of all chronic disease is created by the suppression of acute disease by drug poisoning." Henry Lindlahr, M.D.

4. "Medicines are of subordinate importance because of their very nature they can only work symptomatically." Hans Kusche, M.D.

5. "If all the medicine in the world were thrown into the sea, it would be bad for the fish and good for humanity" O.W. Holmes, (Prof. of Med. Harvard University)

6. "Drug medications consists in employing, as remedies for disease, those things which produce disease in well persons. Its materia medica is simply a lot of drugs or chemicals or dye-stuffs in a word poisons. All are incompatible with vital matter; all produce disease when brought in contact in any manner with the living; all are poisons." R.T. TraIl, M.D., in a two and one half hour lecture to members of congress and the medical profession, delivered at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington D.C.

7. "Drugs never cure disease. They merely hush the voice of nature's protest, and pull down the danger signals she erects along the pathway of transgression. Any poison taken into the system has to be reckoned with later on even though it palliates present symptoms. Pain may disappear, but the patient is left in a worse condition, though unconscious of it at the time." Daniel. H. Kress, M.D.

8. "Every drug increases and complicates the patients condition." Robert Henderson, M.D.

9. "Medicine is only palliative, for back of disease lies the cause, and this cause no drug can reach." Wier Mitchel, M.D.

10. "The person who takes medicine must recover twice, once from the disease and once from the medicine." William Osler, M.D.

11. "Medical practice has neither philosophy nor common sense to recommend it. In sickness the body is already loaded with impurities. By taking drug - medicines more impurities are added, thereby the case is further embarrassed and harder to cure." Elmer Lee, M.D., Past Vice President, Academy of Medicine.

12. "Our figures show approximately four and one half million hospital admissions annually due to the adverse reactions to drugs. Further, the average hospital patient has as much as thirty percent chance, depending how long he is in, of doubling his stay due to adverse drug reactions." Milton Silverman, M.D. (Professor of Pharmacology, University of California)

13. "Why would a patient swallow a poison because he is ill, or take that which would make a well man sick." L.F. Kebler, M.D.

14. "What hope is there for medical science to ever become a true science when the entire structure of medical knowledge is built around the idea that there is an entity called disease which can be expelled when the right drug is found?" John H. Tilden, M.D.

15. "The necessity of teaching mankind not to take drugs and medicines, is a duty incumbent upon all who know their uncertainty and injurious effects; and the time is not far distant when the drug system will be abandoned." Charles Armbruster, M. D.

16. "We are prone to thinking of drug abuse in terms of the male population and illicit drugs such as heroin, cocaine, and marijuana. It may surprise you to learn that a greater problem exists with millions of women dependent on legal prescription drugs." Robert Mendelsohn, M.D

Yeah, I'm coming to the conclusion more and more that vitamin A's usefulness might be best when supplemented acutely. Highish dosage once in a while to help cell turnover and the immune system, a kind of useful stress on the body.

Stress can be a good thing to speed up a process, but chronic stress leads to a long term efficiency decline.