Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Blossom]

I always thought something might be blocking the action of thyroid at the tissue level..

That’s what I suspected too.

 

[schultz]

When I first started with Peat I could drink a couple quarts of milk per day granted I also drank a bunch of coffee

That's funny because there was a thread where someone was asking about potassium and I said I get a bunch from latte's. I was thinking about it and realized I rarely drink milk by itself and wondered if the coffee and sugar made it easier to handle.

Though I do occasionally drink milk, especially if I am away from home and have no food. I was working at someone's house a few summers ago and it was insanely hot and I drank like 5.5 litres of milk (I was sweating profusely). 22 cups if I remember correctly. I don't remember feeling weird from that much milk. Though I imagine I still had coffee that day, just not with the milk (except in the morning). I don't think I've gone without coffee since I was 13 or something.

So you think the coffee specifically helped you handle milk?

 

[schultz]

I am interested because I have prescribed thyroid and have taken thyroid and not getting effects that should happen because I always thought something might be blocking the action of thyroid at the tissue level.. such as increasing temperature etc. and given that people are getting better on low carotene and retinol is fascinating.. I myself have tried drinking milk and oj but never lasted because it wasn’t tasty enough or was even repulsive at times so I never really restricted myself except for trying to limit pufa. So I have been low A for three days and trying this out because I have had mildly yellow to orange calluses for years which has never resolved along with some other issues.. so far in only 3 days not much except I feel a little more upbeat. We will see

What kind of thyroid were you prescribed?

 

[Spondive]

That’s what I suspected too.

Even Peat states that carotene and retinol in a lower thyroid state is not good.. also I think even 5000 iu for low thyroid people is way too much along with all the high vitamin A foods and hidden vitamin A fortification. I’m also questioning such low doses of T3 he recommends to get any effect on adults especially if VA is blocking its action and I question whether the liver really deactivates a dose above 5mcg and hour

 

[Dolomite]

Yes, it’s working for me too. No one is forcing anyone to do this but there’s really no need to make fun of people who are finally feeling better and sharing their experience. I’m not trying to single you out btw.

Honestly though there is a difference between stating views on why someone thinks the theory is incorrect in a respectful way and belittling people. I didn’t talk much about my experience for several months for numerous reasons but primarily it opens a person up to a lot of criticism. Don’t we all face enough of that IRL?

I’m sure many people having success just move on with their life and don’t bother with posting on forums especially RPF because of the drama. People can say what they want about those of us doing well on low A but at least we stayed around and were willing to be part of the controversy.

 

[postman]

Even Peat states that carotene and retinol in a lower thyroid state is not good.. also I think even 5000 iu for low thyroid people is way too much along with all the high vitamin A foods and hidden vitamin A fortification. I’m also questioning such low doses of T3 he recommends to get any effect on adults especially if VA is blocking its action and I question whether the liver really deactivates a dose above 5mcg and hour

I think 1/100th of that dose, or 50 iu, is enough to cause a problem

 

[Spondive]

What kind of thyroid were you prescribed?

I have been on thyroid since 1989 after radiation burned my gland out for treatment of Hodgkin’s lymphoma.. I have experimented with all kinds and doses currently I’m taking 175 mcg of levothyroxin.. How I discovered my thyroid gland was gone was because I was edematous and routine blood test showed elevated liver enzymes and a cholesterol of 400 with a TSH of over 100. My oncologist at the time said I was cured but when he saw my elevated enzymes he just said the disease is probably back and we will start treatment which I didn’t except so I went to the library and saw the connection of high cholesterol and hypothyroidism and even elevated liver enzymes he then admitted I might be right and prescribed me Armour thyroid at my request 1 grain.. after 1 month all labs where normal.. cholesterol went down to my typical 180 level

 

[Tarmander]

That's funny because there was a thread where someone was asking about potassium and I said I get a bunch from latte's. I was thinking about it and realized I rarely drink milk by itself and wondered if the coffee and sugar made it easier to handle.

Though I do occasionally drink milk, especially if I am away from home and have no food. I was working at someone's house a few summers ago and it was insanely hot and I drank like 5.5 litres of milk (I was sweating profusely). 22 cups if I remember correctly. I don't remember feeling weird from that much milk. Though I imagine I still had coffee that day, just not with the milk (except in the morning). I don't think I've gone without coffee since I was 13 or something.

So you think the coffee specifically helped you handle milk?

I cycled through many stimulants, B vitamins, hormones, and other metabolism boosters to try and make the Peat diet work....or any diet to work to be honest. I was constantly bailing water out of a sinking metabolism boat. Hopefully that is changing now. I think it is.

 

[Blossom]

Even Peat states that carotene and retinol in a lower thyroid state is not good.. also I think even 5000 iu for low thyroid people is way too much along with all the high vitamin A foods and hidden vitamin A fortification. I’m also questioning such low doses of T3 he recommends to get any effect on adults especially if VA is blocking its action and I question whether the liver really deactivates a dose above 5mcg and hour

Yes, he told my friend in January that 5,000 IU was safe if her thyroid levels were good.

 

[Spondive]

Yes, he told my friend in January that 5,000 IU was safe if her thyroid levels were good.

I have experimented with high doses of retinol years ago like 100k iu for colds and flu etc based on Dr Atkins recommendations from his book vitanutrient solutions

 

[InChristAlone]

I have been on thyroid since 1989 after radiation burned my gland out for treatment of Hodgkin’s lymphoma.. I have experimented with all kinds and doses currently I’m taking 175 mcg of levothyroxin.. How I discovered my thyroid gland was gone was because I was edematous and routine blood test showed elevated liver enzymes and a cholesterol of 400 with a TSH of over 100. My oncologist at the time said I was cured but when he saw my elevated enzymes he just said the disease is probably back and we will start treatment which I didn’t except so I went to the library and saw the connection of high cholesterol and hypothyroidism and even elevated liver enzymes he then admitted I might be right and prescribed me Armour thyroid at my request 1 grain.. after 1 month all labs where normal.. cholesterol went down to my typical 180 level

Wow! That is horrible he was going to give you more treatment for cancer when you didn't have cancer. You should have turned him in to the board.

 

[Blossom]

I have experimented with high doses of retinol years ago like 100k iu for colds and flu etc based on Dr Atkins recommendations from his book vitanutrient solutions

We're you fairly young at that time?

 

[Spondive]

We're you fairly young at that time?

19 yo

 

[Spondive]

Wow! That is horrible he was going to give you more treatment for cancer when you didn't have cancer. You should have turned him in to the board.

Sorry I didn’t explain in proper order he just ordered routine labs for following remission and they were just CBC and chemistry but he didn’t think or know that cholesterol is inversely related but when I asked for a thyroid check and saw my tsh he then wanted to put me on synthroid in all fairness.. I was 19 at the time but there was no internet and I went to libaray and looked up causes of high cholesterol and put two and two together.. I came from a naturalist approach since my father was a chiropractor.. currently I am an MD an internist and an anesthesiologist and my doctor friends do not know anything about relationships that we all discuss here..People give them too much credit they just go by their cookbook given to them but I had an interest and I found Peat to be refreshing and amazing but some of his practical advice seemed to not work. Also doctors are afraid to not get liscensure and credentialing if going outside the standard of care

 

[Spondive]

19 yo

Sorry I was probably in my 30’s when I was taking high dose retinol

 

[schultz]

I have been on thyroid since 1989 after radiation burned my gland out for treatment of Hodgkin’s lymphoma.. I have experimented with all kinds and doses currently I’m taking 175 mcg of levothyroxin.. How I discovered my thyroid gland was gone was because I was edematous and routine blood test showed elevated liver enzymes and a cholesterol of 400 with a TSH of over 100. My oncologist at the time said I was cured but when he saw my elevated enzymes he just said the disease is probably back and we will start treatment which I didn’t except so I went to the library and saw the connection of high cholesterol and hypothyroidism and even elevated liver enzymes he then admitted I might be right and prescribed me Armour thyroid at my request 1 grain.. after 1 month all labs where normal.. cholesterol went down to my typical 180 level

Oh wow that's terrible! Good on you for figuring that out, and with no internet to boot!

Do you find the T4 works by itself for you without T3?

I cycled through many stimulants, B vitamins, hormones, and other metabolism boosters to try and make the Peat diet work....or any diet to work to be honest. I was constantly bailing water out of a sinking metabolism boat. Hopefully that is changing now. I think it is.

But the coffee did help you with the milk for a while? Sorry if I misunderstood, I thought you were saying that drinking coffee helped you handle milk. I am intrigued by this.

Also doctors are afraid to not get liscensure and credentialing if going outside the standard of care

This is true, especially in Canada. You could lose your licence for doing things outside the box.

 

[Spondive]

Oh wow that's terrible! Good on you for figuring that out, and with no internet to boot!

Do you find the T4 works by itself for you without T3?



But the coffee did help you with the milk for a while? Sorry if I misunderstood, I thought you were saying that drinking coffee helped you handle milk. I am intrigued by this.



This is true, especially in Canada. 2 of my immediate family members are physicians.

As of right now but based on blood test my t4 and T3 are in upper normal range with a o.o1 tsh.. but not perfect. I’m if the belief that you have to ignore suppressed tsh when committing to getting optimal labs

 

[schultz]

I always thought something might be blocking the action of thyroid at the tissue level.. such as increasing temperature etc. and given that people are getting better on low carotene and retinol is fascinating..

PUFA is known to block thyroid in several ways. I wonder if carotene can also block it in these ways by binding the same way PUFA does?

This site had several examples (studies) of how PUFA can affect thyroid - The Worst Food for Your Thyroid (and Doctors Claim It’s “Essential” to Your Health)

Ray, of course, said this...
"Besides fasting, or chronic protein deficiency, the common causes of hypothyroidism are excessive stress or "aerobic" (i.e., anaerobic) exercise, and diets containing
beans;lentils, nuts, unsaturated fats (including carotene), ..."

He seems to be lumping them in the same category.

He also said this...
"Vitamin A is important for resistance, but carotene can interfere with retinol. Carotenemia suggests a lack of vitamin B12 or thyroid, and interferes with thyroid and
steroid production."

And this...
"Both vitamin A and carotene, like any unsaturated oil, will tend to inhibit the thyroid, so it is important to balance supplements ofvitamin A and thyroid; a sluggish thyroid will more easily be suppressed by large doses of vitamin A. but a high level of thyroid activity causes vitamin A to be used more quickly."

I also found this when looking for the other quotes. I liked the part where he says "no doubt".
"There is no doubt that vitamin A is essential for the conversion of cholesterol to progesterone; its action can be competitively blocked by an excess of carotene."

 

[Tarmander]

But the coffee did help you with the milk for a while? Sorry if I misunderstood, I thought you were saying that drinking coffee helped you handle milk. I am intrigued by this.

Yeah it did, but it wasn't a super strong relationship in my experience. There was a direct link between metabolic boosters and my ability to tolerate milk, so Coffee fits in there.

 

[Blossom]

Sorry I was probably in my 30’s when I was taking high dose retinol

May I ask your current age? I understand if don't wish to say.
The comment Peat made to my friend surprised me because I always thought 5,000 IU was a bare minimum amount and the wording made it sound more like his current view is that it's only safe in that amount in the context of good thyroid function. I'll find the email response but it was just in January of this year.