Edema, thyroid, aspirin, caffeine

[bornamachine]

Hey guys... Need some help here.
I've finally figured out that aspirin gave me pulmonary edema. Now I started experimenting with caffeine pills, today after I took 75mg after food felt off instantly again, got calf edema, and instantly some lung edema. Found this article, seems like under functioning thyroid can cause that. Idk what to do anymore. My thyroid is "fine" but it's not. Some time ago I tried ramping up on t3 little by little and shortly after got very cold and first time ever developed arthritis like pain im my hands, panicked and stopped, pain went away.
I don't have any other thyroid type pills.
Maybe someone can chime in...

Generalized pitting edema in a patient with dilated cardiomyopathy secondary to hypothyroidism

KEY POINTS A 45-year-old man presented to the general medicine clinic with a 2-week history of leg edema and dyspnea on exertion, including when walking up stairs. He had also noticed a new nonproductive cough. Five years before admission, his general practitioner had diagnosed hypothyroidism while

www.cmaj.ca

 

[bornamachine]

One theory I have is that with low thyroid such substances that raise my energy and make me normal again over activate the thyroid, it eventually tires out or amount hormone reduces and causes a collapse of energy, which causes cells to fill with fluid (I believe Ray Peat talked about that, that a cell with collapsed energy production will take on water)

Juat like in the article I got calf edema today clearing now though, not pitting.

 

[Jessie]

I think a lot of people's thyroid is ostensibly "fine" when in actuality it's not. Subclinical hypothyroidism is massively underdiagnosed.

I'm personally not a fan of isolated t3. I do like a small amount of t4 with the t3. I can't exactly explain why, all I know is I respond better to a mixture.

 

[redsun]

Hey guys... Need some help here.
I've finally figured out that aspirin gave me pulmonary edema. Now I started experimenting with caffeine pills, today after I took 75mg after food felt off instantly again, got calf edema, and instantly some lung edema. Found this article, seems like under functioning thyroid can cause that. Idk what to do anymore. My thyroid is "fine" but it's not. Some time ago I tried ramping up on t3 little by little and shortly after got very cold and first time ever developed arthritis like pain im my hands, panicked and stopped, pain went away.
I don't have any other thyroid type pills.
Maybe someone can chime in...

Generalized pitting edema in a patient with dilated cardiomyopathy secondary to hypothyroidism

KEY POINTS A 45-year-old man presented to the general medicine clinic with a 2-week history of leg edema and dyspnea on exertion, including when walking up stairs. He had also noticed a new nonproductive cough. Five years before admission, his general practitioner had diagnosed hypothyroidism while

www.cmaj.ca

Its not related to your thyroid, its something the aspirin specifically causes. It seemed to have made you susceptible to edema and now you also get it from caffeine.

Salicylate pulmonary edema: the mechanism in sheep and review of the clinical literature - PubMed

Several clinical reports of salicylate-induced pulmonary edema led us to investigate the mechanism in a chronic unanesthetized sheep preparation. We infused an aspirin-buffer solution intravenously at rates up to 1,200 mg of aspirin per hour and compared effects on lung lymph flow and lymph...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Thus, aspirin appears to cause increased permeability to fluid and protein in the pulmonary vascular bed. Aspirin caused arterial PO2 to decrease from 83 +/- 3 SE mm Hg to 74 +/- 3 mm Hg (P less than 0.05) and caused postmortem extravascular lung water to increase."

 

[bornamachine]

I think a lot of people's thyroid is ostensibly "fine" when in actuality it's not. Subclinical hypothyroidism is massively underdiagnosed.

I'm personally not a fan of isolated t3. I do like a small amount of t4 with the t3. I can't exactly explain why, all I know is I respond better to a mixture.

How much do you take? And when you stop do you taper off? Is this something you handle by yourself or with a doc?

 

[bornamachine]

@redsun I don't know at this point, the only way to find out would be to try to gst on some t3/t4 if I feel good and stable for over month, introduce some caffeine pills or aspirin and see if there is a negative reactions again.

Everyone here seems to be ok on massive aspirin pills for those that take them here and I reckon their thyroids are not the best, but every I individual is different and I guess you will never know without experimentation.

I hope your theory is wrong.

 

[redsun]

@redsun I don't know at this point, the only way to find out would be to try to gst on some t3/t4 if I feel good and stable for over month, introduce some caffeine pills or aspirin and see if there is a negative reactions again.

Everyone here seems to be ok on massive aspirin pills for those that take them here and I reckon their thyroids are not the best, but every I individual is different and I guess you will never know without experimentation.

I hope your theory is wrong.

Its not theory. These are findings from research. This is just one research article talking about aspirin and pulmonary edema, there are more. Just recently I was in another thread about some who got aspirin-induced asthma. One person can take medicine with virtually no side effects from it while a different person will react very poorly to that exact same medication and have many side effects. Its just how it is.

 

[bornamachine]

@redsun I understand. I just hope that it doesn't apply to me in a sense that even if my thyroid were fine, I could no longer use these tools. If my thyroid was fine though and I felt normal again, I wouldnt ask for anytning else or need to use any of the tools. I guess my next step is to figure out how to experiment with t3/t4 safely, it's hard because I don't have insuarance rn and back in the day the docs would tell me my thyroid is fine even though ALL symptoms pointed to underactive thyroid, I would need to get a functional doc and pay cash through the nose also I need to do this while at the same time holding down a job

 

[Jessie]

How much do you take? And when you stop do you taper off? Is this something you handle by yourself or with a doc?

It doesn't really matter if I abruptly stop or taper off, the net result is the same. I start feeling hypo again. Lower temps, worse breathing, colder feet, and high adrenaline symptoms.

I handle myself, but I follow the rigorous regime. I'm not just "winging it." Which should never be encouraged on something like thyroid (or aspirin for the matter).

You can use a doc if you want, but I'm not sure how easy it will be to get a good product. Most docs seem to only prescribe Synthroid. Broda Barnes protocol is really the best in the business, regardless if you're seeing a doctor or not. Barnes method of dosing gives you the best chance to succeed.

 

[Jessie]

@redsun I understand. I just hope that it doesn't apply to me in a sense that even if my thyroid were fine, I could no longer use these tools. If my thyroid was fine though and I felt normal again, I wouldnt ask for anytning else or need to use any of the tools. I guess my next step is to figure out how to experiment with t3/t4 safely, it's hard because I don't have insuarance rn and back in the day the docs would tell me my thyroid is fine even though ALL symptoms pointed to underactive thyroid, I would need to get a functional doc and pay cash through the nose also I need to do this while at the same time holding down a job

Check your temps, check your heart rate, and monitor your respiration. Those are the best indicators. Also high cholesterol can point to low thyroid, as well as elevated TSH.

Starting at a low dose, like Barnes recommended, and slowly ramping up over a course of a couple months until you're at your maintenance dose is the safe way to introduce thyroid.

 

[Jessie]

@redsun I don't know at this point, the only way to find out would be to try to gst on some t3/t4 if I feel good and stable for over month, introduce some caffeine pills or aspirin and see if there is a negative reactions again.

Everyone here seems to be ok on massive aspirin pills for those that take them here and I reckon their thyroids are not the best, but every I individual is different and I guess you will never know without experimentation.

I hope your theory is wrong.

Aspirin is a wonderful substance for many people, but it's a powerful one, and it shouldn't be approached like taking 'just another vitamin' in my opinion. Firstly, nothing will make up for someone's hypo state. If you are hypothyroid, then you may not be responding to aspirin in a constructive way.

Secondly, aspirin is safer when dissolved in warm water with baking soda. Vitamin K is also advised on larger doses to restore the clotting protein that aspirin acts on. Also aspirin can deplete glycine over the long term, so if it becomes a regular thing for someone then they need to increase their gelatin intake.

 

[bornamachine]

@Jessie thanks for your input! So which product do you take and what quantities and how long did you ramp up for until you found your equilibrium?

I've never done mega aspirin doses, I was doing 75mg or so doses twice or thrice a day after food only, and usually only mon-fri.

Back when I used to get my thyroid checked via labs my TSH was always on point at 1.0 or below or a little above, everything "always in range" but ofcourse I didnt feel in range!

Yes, elevated cholesterol, one time I did a full panel and sure enough, cholesterol was off the charts, I think twice the normal at age 28 or so, I'm 35 now

My thyroid was hurt when I was 21 after a dental visit believe it or not, I was in epic primal health prior to that.

I appreciate your input! Look forward to getting some guidance.

I also agree, until thyroid is fixed or supplemented nothing will work long term!

 

[Jessie]

@Jessie thanks for your input! So which product do you take and what quantities and how long did you ramp up for until you found your equilibrium?

I've never done mega aspirin doses, I was doing 75mg or so doses twice or thrice a day after food only, and usually only mon-fri.

Back when I used to get my thyroid checked via labs my TSH was always on point at 1.0 or below or a little above, everything "always in range" but ofcourse I didnt feel in range!

Yes, elevated cholesterol, one time I did a full panel and sure enough, cholesterol was off the charts, I think twice the normal at age 28 or so, I'm 35 now

My thyroid was hurt when I was 21 after a dental visit believe it or not, I was in epic primal health prior to that.

I appreciate your input! Look forward to getting some guidance.

I also agree, until thyroid is fixed or supplemented nothing will work long term!

I use Tyromix. 3 drops is the rough equivalent of 1/2 grain of NDT. I started there, and then worked my way up to 3 drops twice a day (6 drops) over two weeks, then another 2 weeks I went up to 3 drops three times a day (9 drops). So on.

My maintenace dose is 4 drops in the morning, 4 drops in the afternoon, and 3 drops in the evening. So 11 drops in total. Which ballpark the estimate at around 2 grains of thyroid. Granted tyromix is a 2:1 ratio, so the equivalency to NDT isn't an exact match.

 

[Jessie]

Btw I take that orally. I put the drops in gelatin capsules and swallow them. Don't waste your time with topical thyroid.

 

[bornamachine]

@Jessie

 

[A-Tim]

Btw I take that orally. I put the drops in gelatin capsules and swallow them. Don't waste your time with topical thyroid.

Why do you put them in a capsule rather than on your tongue or gums?

 

[Jessie]

Why do you put them in a capsule rather than on your tongue or gums?

The ethanol stings pretty badly under my tongue when you dose it multiple times a day. Almost to the point of being raw. Not sure it works as well for me that way either.

The effects are potent when swallowing it in caps. You take it up quickly, considering ethanol is the carrier. Kicks in much faster than tablet versions of thyroid.