Each Hormone Deficiency Is Associated With A Distinct Kind Of Fatigue. I Had Them All

[thingsvarious]

Then perhaps you should be a little more careful with your choice of words.

I just dislike the fact that most people think that when it comes to vit D more is better

 

[PhoenixGaia]

"What is more, growth hormone treatment vastly improves your sleep".

Again, you sound like you never touched real GH, or any GH at all.
We all report agitated sleep at any IU dosage, you toss and turn all night.
You wake up energetic, but after the worst sleep ever.

You are talking out of your ****.

Again, your knowledge seems to come from blogs, you never touched anything yourself.

Disagreed. I've now read every article of this dude and he genuinely seems to have an idea of what's actually going on.

 

[yerrag]

Disagreed. I've now read every article of this dude and he genuinely seems to have an idea of what's actually going on.

Sharing is what these forums are about. Most, if not all, of what we blog here, however is all "work in progress." It's worth reading on. You say "seems" and that is a fair assessment.

It's always "caveat emptor" so we have to take such ideas with a grain of salt. Hormones are chief regulators in the body. So a lot of caution is needed. Small amounts have strong effects.

One thing that constantly bothers me is why we need to take hormones when a healthy body makes them, and a healthy body doesn't overdose on them, as a healthy body does a great job at self-regulation. So I would rather focus on living a healthy lifestyle, giving myself good essential inputs. With enough support, there's no need to take in hormones, which the body already makes and in demand, which means it's not there when it's not needed, and it's there when needed.

I also don't think it's financially practical to be testing for each and every hormone. Such tests are expensive. Even if these tests were affordable, there are hormones that are paracrine and autocrine, so you can't possibly test these hormones through a blood test. These hormones (paracrine and autocrine) may not be the hormones mentioned, but still, the effects of exogenous hormones would not be fully known if there are effects on hormones that cannot be measured by blood tests, as the body self-regulates and adapts to conditions it is exposed to, which in this case, is the effect of intake of exogenous hormones that is subject to improper use.

On the subject of measurement of hormones, a way used by the field of endobiogeny measures ratios of less expensive and more accessible markers which act as useful surrogates of hormonal action.

On the subject of endobiogeny, which I'm learning about, I think it's a good way to understand about the effects of hormones in a more wholistic way. But I must warn, it is a long read. There is a 4-volume series on it available on Scribd.

 

[Lokzo]

The dude who tried "all diets under the sun" has now experimented with "all hormones under the sun" and can give a feedback on "all kinds of fatigue under the sun".

Just go under the sun son.

This is hilarious.

I ended up interviewing @thingsvarious on my podcast, we spoke about basically all of his brilliant medium articles. You'll like it my friend!

 

[PhoenixGaia]

Sharing is what these forums are about. Most, if not all, of what we blog here, however is all "work in progress." It's worth reading on. You say "seems" and that is a fair assessment.

It's always "caveat emptor" so we have to take such ideas with a grain of salt. Hormones are chief regulators in the body. So a lot of caution is needed. Small amounts have strong effects.

One thing that constantly bothers me is why we need to take hormones when a healthy body makes them, and a healthy body doesn't overdose on them, as a healthy body does a great job at self-regulation. So I would rather focus on living a healthy lifestyle, giving myself good essential inputs. With enough support, there's no need to take in hormones, which the body already makes and in demand, which means it's not there when it's not needed, and it's there when needed.

I also don't think it's financially practical to be testing for each and every hormone. Such tests are expensive. Even if these tests were affordable, there are hormones that are paracrine and autocrine, so you can't possibly test these hormones through a blood test. These hormones (paracrine and autocrine) may not be the hormones mentioned, but still, the effects of exogenous hormones would not be fully known if there are effects on hormones that cannot be measured by blood tests, as the body self-regulates and adapts to conditions it is exposed to, which in this case, is the effect of intake of exogenous hormones that is subject to improper use.

On the subject of measurement of hormones, a way used by the field of endobiogeny measures ratios of less expensive and more accessible markers which act as useful surrogates of hormonal action.

On the subject of endobiogeny, which I'm learning about, I think it's a good way to understand about the effects of hormones in a more wholistic way. But I must warn, it is a long read. There is a 4-volume series on it available on Scribd.

Absolutely agreed, cautiousness is always advised, but also vincit que se vincit

I'd guess a major argument for why a body's endocrine regulation isn't optimal is, that it is optimal for living in the African savanna! Not for 21st century life. E.g. thyroid gland would produce the minimum amount necessary for survival so that no excess calories would be burned. We're evolutionarily adapted to that. But wouldn't you want excess caloric burning these days?

 

[yerrag]

Absolutely agreed, cautiousness is always advised, but also vincit que se vincit

I'd guess a major argument for why a body's endocrine regulation isn't optimal is, that it is optimal for living in the African savanna! Not for 21st century life. E.g. thyroid gland would produce the minimum amount necessary for survival so that no excess calories would be burned. We're evolutionarily adapted to that. But wouldn't you want excess caloric burning these days?

I'm trying to understand what you'e getting at here. I couldn't understand the need for excess caloric burning these days. I'd like to reply, but I may be misinterpreting your message.

 

[PhoenixGaia]

I'm trying to understand what you'e getting at here. I couldn't understand the need for excess caloric burning these days. I'd like to reply, but I may be misinterpreting your message.

What I meant was that until now there has always been a strong selective pressure towards burning the minimum amount of calories while still sustaining (hunting) performance. This would explain why evolution would want us to have low thyroid hormones (which in high amounts burn calories). Which would explain why there are so many low thyroid cases today

 

[yerrag]

What I meant was that until now there has always been a strong selective pressure towards burning the minimum amount of calories while still sustaining (hunting) performance. This would explain why evolution would want us to have low thyroid hormones (which in high amounts burn calories). Which would explain why there are so many low thyroid cases today

Thanks for clarifying. I've not been very active the for at least the past ten years, and I've been peating for the past 4 years consciously. I've gained the other year and I lost them again and my weight is normal again. And the cause was bacterial, when I took proteolytic enzymes to lyse plaque. I was surprised it also released bacteria and immune complexes into my system. This led to blood sugar dysregulation. I spent the past year fixing the low-level infection.

My case may not be representative of others, but there could be reasons other than having a more sedentary lifestyle compared to our ancestors. The body in a state of homeostatic balance would still be able to adapt to a more sedentary lifestyle over many years of changes from hunter-gatherer to being agrarian to being a city cubicle employee. The SAD (standard american diet) doesn't make things easy and it's more a matter imho of garbage in garbage out that makes our hormones out of whack.

 

[PhoenixGaia]

Thanks for clarifying. I've not been very active the for at least the past ten years, and I've been peating for the past 4 years consciously. I've gained the other year and I lost them again and my weight is normal again. And the cause was bacterial, when I took proteolytic enzymes to lyse plaque. I was surprised it also released bacteria and immune complexes into my system. This led to blood sugar dysregulation. I spent the past year fixing the low-level infection.

My case may not be representative of others, but there could be reasons other than having a more sedentary lifestyle compared to our ancestors. The body in a state of homeostatic balance would still be able to adapt to a more sedentary lifestyle over many years of changes from hunter-gatherer to being agrarian to being a city cubicle employee. The SAD (standard american diet) doesn't make things easy and it's more a matter imho of garbage in garbage out that makes our hormones out of whack.

I agree on the Garbage in, garbage out thing. Sedentary lifestyles for sure don't help too. But my main point still is that my educated guess would be that thyroid hormoens a priori cannot be "optimal" in most humans. Evolution forced us into states of hypothyroid, and that most people can peat, eat perfectly, have a great metabolism, and still cannot be in an optimal thyroid state - just because evolution minimized caloric burning. But it's an educated guess. How does Peat see evolutionary theories in regards to health?

 

[thingsvarious]

I agree on the Garbage in, garbage out thing. Sedentary lifestyles for sure don't help too. But my main point still is that my educated guess would be that thyroid hormoens a priori cannot be "optimal" in most humans. Evolution forced us into states of hypothyroid, and that most people can peat, eat perfectly, have a great metabolism, and still cannot be in an optimal thyroid state - just because evolution minimized caloric burning. But it's an educated guess. How does Peat see evolutionary theories in regards to health?

I fully agree. Furthermore, aging also leads to a decline in hormones across the board and we certainly were not intended to live much beyond our reproductive years.

 

[rei]

There are many many many factors that affect the rate of calcification (calcium, cortisol, T3, IGF1, endothelial injury, how macrophages respond, phosphate levels, FGF23.......)

No, there is one. The amount that gets converted to 1,25. Which in itself is affected by many, mainly stress as previous poster said. The ones you mention are in turn indicators of stress mitigation, much like 1,25.

 

[thingsvarious]

No, there is one. The amount that gets converted to 1,25. Which in itself is affected by many, mainly stress as previous poster said. The ones you mention are in turn indicators of stress mitigation, much like 1,25.

This is an extreme oversimplification. There are literally hundred of factors that affect cardiovascular and tissue calcification

 

[yerrag]

How does Peat see evolutionary theories in regards to health?

I think Peat sees things from a Lamarckian lens rather than from a Darwinian lens. What you say is more Darwinian. You presume that we're stuck with genes from a hunter-gather era. I would say that from a Lamarckian standpoint, our genes have evolved to suit our present state of not being hunter-gatherers for millenia.

I fully agree. Furthermore, aging also leads to a decline in hormones across the board and we certainly were not intended to live much beyond our reproductive years.

How old are you now? If aging is the basis and you're not that old, why are you taking a lot of hormones? While aging is associated with decline, it can be less of a factor when one is healthy. Aging is often the excuse of mainstream doctors when they people your time is up because you're old, when they actually don't know squat what they're talking about.

 

[yerrag]

This is an extreme oversimplification. There are literally hundred of factors that affect cardiovascular and tissue calcification

It can still be distilled into more relevant mechanisms than creating a list of factors that have varying levels, indirect and direct, of influence on calcification. To cast a wide net is to lose sight of what you're catching.

I view calcification as the cell's inability to maintain a proper extracellular/intracellular ratio of calcium. That ratio is what I understand to be 15000:1. And that is influenced very much by the intracellular/extracellular potassium ratio of 35:1. So having enough potassium stores plays a lot into this, as potassium is needed to establish the integrity of the cell membrance in order to regulate the influx of calcium into the cell. And the acid-base balance is important as well, which is affected by how well our tissues metabolize sugar and produce carbon dioxide, out of which carbonic acid is produced which effects the transport of calcium out of the cell so that calcium does not accumulate in the cell.

That is a simplication but to be more detailed certainly we can connect many other factors that come into play such as the effect of infection.

 

[rei]

This is an extreme oversimplification. There are literally hundred of factors that affect cardiovascular and tissue calcification

That's exactly what i said. And they all probably achieve it by converting d3 to 1.25 in excess amounts. Not necessarily as measured by absolute amount, but by amount compared to current metabolic balance.

 

[PhoenixGaia]

I think Peat sees things from a Lamarckian lens rather than from a Darwinian lens. What you say is more Darwinian. You presume that we're stuck with genes from a hunter-gather era. I would say that from a Lamarckian standpoint, our genes have evolved to suit our present state of not being hunter-gatherers for millenia.


How old are you now? If aging is the basis and you're not that old, why are you taking a lot of hormones? While aging is associated with decline, it can be less of a factor when one is healthy. Aging is often the excuse of mainstream doctors when they people your time is up because you're old, when they actually don't know squat what they're talking about.

I personally doubt that Lamarckianism can help this situation... The evolutionary timeframe just is way too short for proper adaptation, don't you think so?

 

[yerrag]

I personally doubt that Lamarckianism can help this situation... The evolutionary timeframe just is way too short for proper adaptation, don't you think so?

When a volcanic eruption caused a salt water lagoon to be sealed off from the sea and turned it into a fresh water lake, the sardines did not just die but quickly adapted to the new environment. It did not follow your idea about slow evolutionary timeframes. They didn't care about it. Neither do I think the programming of life isn't robust and responsive. What makes you think thst evolution is so slow? Do you really believe that despite our hunter gather days being so long ago in the past, we would not yet have adapted because evolution is THAT slow?

 

[thingsvarious]

When a volcanic eruption caused a salt water lagoon to be sealed off from the sea and turned it into a fresh water lake, the sardines did not just die but quickly adapted to the new environment. It did not follow your idea about slow evolutionary timeframes. They didn't care about it. Neither do I think the programming of life isn't robust and responsive. What makes you think thst evolution is so slow? Do you really believe that despite our hunter gather days being so long ago in the past, we would not yet have adapted because evolution is THAT slow?

Yes I believe our endocrine system hardly changed during this time.

 

[yerrag]

Yes I believe our endocrine system hardly changed during this time.

The US being an outlier when it comes to the preponderance of obesity and overweight, you may be right because the lifestyle as a whole leaves much to be desired compared to say Africa at the extreme. I no longer live there and it was easy for me to just lose weight coming back to the Philippines without even trying to. But eating microwave dinner and having to go to the gym to compensate for sitting all day in a cubicle and driving to and from work is hardly what would be called normal in many areas of the world.

 

[thingsvarious]

Unfortunately, we are all in this economic engine driven by economic growth and for most of us it will be really hard to not be a slave to our modern lifestyles even if we wanted to