E2 Is Not The Problem

[5a-DHP]

whats the alternatives to taking test?
I know so many men that feel awesome on testosterone and yes some feel worse, but thats everything, many people feel great on thyorid, some nevee right. I talk to many people that are way better off leaving peat stuff and feel better low carb, it goes on

yes the trt community has its issues for sure, but that’s understandable, men that go on trt that feel great are not going to waste the time to research forums for how to feel better. This is why i said, healthy people spend little time on Facebook, forums, youtube, etc.
I personally spends a lot of time online when im not well and have low energy
i talk to an 80 year old whos been on trt for 25 years and looks and feels great, yes he takes dhea.preg, thyorid

i think you would be surprised at how many men feel better on trt... its a lot.

You're talking like testosterone is the only option available, which it isn't. What are your body temperatures? I'm still yet to find a man who consistently has a mid-afternoon body temperature of 37.1c + pulse > 80 bpm who also has low testosterone.

Listen, I spent five years in that community, browsing t-nation, excelmale, all things male, reddit, the facebook groups, etc., every single day. Most men still have fatigue, regular ed, brain fog and a cohort of other problems that exogenous testosterone does not resolve. I'm not here sh***ing on testosterone with zero knowledge or experience just because Ray Peat doesn't approve of it; I'm sh***ing on testosterone because I've been there and done it and, for the most part, it simply does not work. You yourself have taken it and failed, yet you're still pushing the idea that its effective - why? I see this time and time again on every trt-related medium, and I just don't understand it.

Also, are you actually using Joe Rogan as a serious example of how trt promotes health and wellbeing? The man has more fibrotic tissue than bone in that skull + a hgh gut that Dave Palumbo would be proud of, and that's supposed to be a barometer of health that one should strive for? This is the same man that promotes two hour cardio sessions completely fasted whilst simultaneously pursuing a carnivorous diet...

 

[Vegancrossfit]

At least going carnivore solved his starchy gut and improved his vitiligo!

 

[5a-DHP]

At least going carnivore solved his starchy gut and improved his vitiligo!

Every cloud, lol.

 

[mrchibbs]

You're talking like testosterone is the only option available, which it isn't. What are your body temperatures? I'm still yet to find a man who consistently has a mid-afternoon body temperature of 37.1c + pulse > 80 bpm who also has low testosterone.

Listen, I spent five years in that community, browsing t-nation, excelmale, all things male, reddit, the facebook groups, etc., every single day. Most men still have fatigue, regular ed, brain fog and a cohort of other problems that exogenous testosterone does not resolve. I'm not here sh***ing on testosterone with zero knowledge or experience just because Ray Peat doesn't approve of it; I'm sh***ing on testosterone because I've been there and done it and, for the most part, it simply does not work. You yourself have taken it and failed, yet you're still pushing the idea that its effective - why? I see this time and time again on every trt-related medium, and I just don't understand it.

Also, are you actually using Joe Rogan as a serious example of how trt promotes health and wellbeing? The man has more fibrotic tissue than bone in that skull + a hgh gut that Dave Palumbo would be proud of, and that's supposed to be a barometer of health that one should strive for? This is the same man that promotes two hour cardio sessions completely fasted whilst simultaneously pursuing a carnivorous diet...

Great post! Moreover, I don't think Ray Peat disapproves of testosterone in of itself. The reason he recommends DHEA instead of testosterone is because DHEA is not regulated, unlike testosterone. For example, he has spoken several times about the benefits of having larger muscles, because the muscles themselves raise the metabolic rate and synthesize testosterone.

A careful reading of Ray's comments and interviews would reveal that he wholly supports careful, and physiological hormonal replacement. I think he has taken a few grams of DHEA daily for decades.

 

[b555]

[

You're talking like testosterone is the only option available, which it isn't. What are your body temperatures? I'm still yet to find a man who consistently has a mid-afternoon body temperature of 37.1c + pulse > 80 bpm who also has low testosterone.

Listen, I spent five years in that community, browsing t-nation, excelmale, all things male, reddit, the facebook groups, etc., every single day. Most men still have fatigue, regular ed, brain fog and a cohort of other problems that exogenous testosterone does not resolve. I'm not here sh***ing on testosterone with zero knowledge or experience just because Ray Peat doesn't approve of it; I'm sh***ing on testosterone because I've been there and done it and, for the most part, it simply does not work. You yourself have taken it and failed, yet you're still pushing the idea that its effective - why? I see this time and time again on every trt-related medium, and I just don't understand it.

Also, are you actually using Joe Rogan as a serious example of how trt promotes health and wellbeing? The man has more fibrotic tissue than bone in that skull + a hgh gut that Dave Palumbo would be proud of, and that's supposed to be a barometer of health that one should strive for? This is the same man that promotes two hour cardio sessions completely fasted whilst simultaneously pursuing a carnivorous diet...

Well look at the amount if people that been on this forum with no results. I am in a ray peat inspired facebook group, and the creator had been so called peating for years and based on his posts, hes gotten worse.

I cant believe how many people here still have low testosterone...despite boosting metabolism
Trt had helped a lot, but its not a cure. Its no different than taking dhea, thyorid. It helps but bits of improvement

so since trt didn't work. I guess your back here to try to boost metabolism and hopes it works? It seems like your not making progress, why else would you be here?

ok you bash joe rogan based on looks, i guess haidut is a good specimen of health?

 

[5a-DHP]

Well look at the amount if people that beeb on this forum with no results. I am in a ray peat inspired facebook group, and the creator had been so called peating for years and based on his posts, hes gotten worse.
Haidut is still fat and bald..

I agree, and I never claimed following RP's advice word for word was the path to good health. The fact that many people here are still sick has no bearing on whether testosterone is or isn't an effective therapy.

 

[b555]

I agree trt has a lot of issues... but im not seeing many other ways to increase, at least for me

 

[5a-DHP]

Great post! Moreover, I don't think Ray Peat disapproves of testosterone in of itself.

That is an important distinction to make. RP isn't against the use of testosterone itself, but more so the method in which its currently implemented - i.e, high dose esterified testosterone suspended in seed oil. Low dose testosterone base is fine assuming it doesn't cause hpta suppression.

Testosterone used within the latter context feels like an entirely different hormone compared to the former in my experience. Even then, its still a relatively unimpressive adjunct as far as the steroids go.

 

[Vegancrossfit]

I think he has taken a few grams of DHEA daily for decades.

surely you meant milligrams here?

 

[5a-DHP]

I agree trt has a lot of issues... but im not seeing many other ways to increase, at least for me

Why are you so focused on testosterone? If there's an issue with a downstream hormone, its indicative of an upstream problem, which is primarily why taking testosterone directly doesn't make people feel better.

 

[b555]

Why are you so focused on testosterone? If there's an issue with a downstream hormone, its indicative of an upstream problem, which is primarily why taking testosterone directly doesn't make people feel better.

yes i am not focused as much on testosterone anymore. I feel my current trt protocol is as good as that part is going to get me.

 

[5a-DHP]

yes i am not focused as much on testosterone anymore. I feel my current trt protocol is as good as that part is going to get me.

Out of curiosity, what is your protocol, and where does it put your bloods?

 

[b555]

Right now im taking 40mg 2x a weeek, that puts my total t at 850

 

[mrchibbs]

surely you meant milligrams here?

Yes my bad

 

[5a-DHP]

so since trt didn't work. I guess your back here to try to boost metabolism and hopes it works? It seems like your not making progress, why else would you be here?

Not sure if I missed that, or you added it after. Either way, here is my endogenous testosterone now:

But yes, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm not making progress and absolutely everyone who browses health related forums are sick.

 

[b555]

Well congratulations. I have seen hundreds if not over thousand of blood works and never seen someone over the range on testosterone that was nautral.

Most healthy men usually are right around 600-700, with very few getting up to around 900-1000 ngdl

 

[5a-DHP]

Well congratulations. I have hundreds if not over thousand of blood works and never seen someone over the range on testosterone that was nautral.

34 nmol/l converts to 970 ng/dl. Hardly insane or supraphysiological.

The range used to be 10 - 38 nmo/L a few months prior to the test being ran.

 

[b555]

34 nmol/l converts to 970 ng/dL. Hardly insane or supraphysiological.

The range used to be 10 - 38 nmo/L a few months prior to the test being ran.

no not insane, but definitely way above the normal. Especially if your over 25 years old. I rarely see a natural over 900

 

[5a-DHP]

no not insane, but definitely way above the normal. Especially if your over 25 years old. I rarely see a natural over 900

I'm 23, so still under 25. Regardless, pre-trt roughly four years ago my levels used to sit around 400 ng/dl.

If you're hanging around a community that is dedicated to low testosterone, its not surprising you don't see people coming in with high levels. Generally speaking, people who are high aren't being tested, as they have no reason to get it checked in the first place.

 

[b555]

I'm 23, so still under 25. Regardless, pre-trt roughly four years ago my levels used to sit around 400 ng/dl.

If you're hanging around a community that is dedicated to low testosterone, its not surprising you don't see people coming in with high levels. Generally speaking, people who are high aren't being tested, as they have no reason to get it checked in the first place.

i agree, but im in all health groups, mostly diet a few low t
surprising its when vegans post their blood work they often have high natural t. Usually around the 600-700