Low Toxin Supplements Dr Smith's perspective on dextrose powder supplementation

[charlie]

The protocol by Dr. Stephens actually normalizes fasting blood glucose.

Boom. I was waiting for someone to pick up on that. Smith is so ignorant on the subject he failed to see that this protocol actually normalizes blood sugar which blows his argument right out of the sugar water.

Dextrose also heals the liver and fixes cholestasis at an accelerated rate. So with his latest move he is literally holding people back from healing.

 

[charlie]

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the matter, @charlie.

Dr. Smith should be ashamed the way he talks about Dr. Stephens knowing so little of him and his protocol. If Dr. Stephens protocol is a direct Divine inspiration like he says it is, which I have no reason to believe it is not. Then Dr. Smith is messing up big time.

 

[shanny]

Dr. Smith's latest newsletter:

"This is sugar in a nutshell…
But it’s also alcohol, smoking, coffee…
Any kind of “crutch” you can name that helps to ease your nerves, reduce your anxiety, give you a sudden boost of energy…"

I've been really interested in Dr. Stephen's work and have been reading/researching more on this topic. It's fascinating and makes a lot of sense to me. Why is it that when you go to the hospital in an extremely compromised state that they give you an I.V. full of GLUCOSE and electrolytes? This is a drug? Really? I think not.

I also have a hard time accusing people of being "addicts" around sugar, alcohol, smoking and coffee. Are we not just looking for a way to make energy? It's a survival instinct. All of these things increase blood sugar. It's interesting on the forum how many people have noted that their use of dextrose has decreased their need for smoking and/or coffee.

There have been some interesting podcasts lately reviewing the Minnesota Starvation Experiment (Rooted in Resilience if anyone is interested). The conclusions drawn from reviewing is that calories are king. When people are coming out of a starvation state (which I would argue most of us are that have tried any kind of "diet" experiment OR simply trying to exist in this stressed out society) that the most healing thing for people are calories. Increased calories spare nutrients, vitamins, minerals, muscle tissue, etc. and allow people to heal. Well guess what is a form of instant calories and energy? Dextrose.

 

[charlie]

I also have a hard time accusing people of being "addicts" around sugar, alcohol, smoking and coffee. Are we not just looking for a way to make energy? It's a survival instinct.

"The fact that a taste of chocolate can provoke a wild lust for more chocolate, or that once cigarette renews the addiction, does not mean that the presence of chocolate or nicotine in the blood creates a craving. Rather, it is that an organism in an unstable state perceives the availability of something which promises to partially restore the desired stability." - Ray Peat

 

[shanny]

That! Thank you. Sums it up much better than I could. :)

 

[purple pill]

Wonder why Garret doesn't use his car analogies on this one....wonder how glucose would fit in there

 

[mosaic01]

I think the topic of dextrose exploded so much in his group, here and in the ggenereux forum because people intuitively feel that it's the truth and that the lack of glucose is what keeps many miserable, because you need a lot of energy for detox.

Without additional dextrose, the liver will quickly run out of glycogen. This then affects the brain, which sets in motion a downward spiral of problems as the brain scrambles to reserve as much glucose for itself as possible, further depleting the organs involved in detoxification.

Smith's recommendation of taking niacin worsens this problem massively by depleting even more liver glycogen.

 

[TheCodez]

Wonder why Garret doesn't use his car analogies on this one....wonder how glucose would fit in there

Oh he's definitely still using the car analogies on this one, and for bonus points he even evokes Peat. This conversation happened just before he blocked me on X, probably for being so rude to him.

 

[Mitchell777]

Oh he's definitely still using the car analogies on this one.

Goodness me his responses are utterly unbearable. His poor analogies, low level understanding on basic cellular physiology and his attempt to belittle others by saying “I’ve been in this game longer than most” is the final straw for me. The person who was commenting was nothing but polite and well spoken and Garrett as per usual, goes on the attack, composes his “arguments” with arrogance. The superiority complex this man has is laughable. As I said before, he really isn’t as scientifically intellectually as 99% of his cult followers think he is. They just aren’t able to confront anything he says as if not, they are removed and banned even though they have payed good money. It’s getting ridiculous now.

 

[Ras]

If Dr. Stephens protocol is a direct Divine inspiration like he says it is, which I have no reason to believe it is not. Then Dr. Smith is messing up big time.

Acts 5:38-39 KJB
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

 

[Ras]

Probably best to just try the glucose protocol and see if you make progress within a few weeks, and if you do, see it it continues.

The arguments against it ( the ones that are actually arguments) seem to be highly theoretical and the body is too complex a system to give them much confidence. Particularly something as fundamental as glucose.

If you eat lots of starch then you already take on lots of glucose regularly unless you digestive system is stuck in special measures

Water, glucose, oxygen, heat... There isn't much more fundamental than those 4 things.

The best thing about forums such as these is the experimentation and reports.

After you've seen as many theoretical speculations as I just fail miserably in real life, one takes them with a big pinch of salt..

Well said. Experimentation always reveals the truth.

 

[purple pill]

Oh he's definitely still using the car analogies on this one, and for bonus points he even evokes Peat. This conversation happened just before he blocked me on X, probably for being so rude to him.

no way! Thought he woulda dropped that ***t like a tonne of bricks on this one. The analogy doesn't account for the body also being it's own mechanic and needing extra energy for fixing itself or cleaning itself of...let's say "oil sludge" lol give him his dues for sticking to it thou

 

[purple pill]

.... I feel I should manage a better anology with a degree in this ***t.....
Glucose in this case is more like fully charging the battery, sending 14v to the ecu(brain) when it's only been running on like 10v from a faulty alternator. When the ecu gets full power it should come out of "limp mode" and use the fuel (carbs)more efficiently.

Meh, probs needs more work but Itll do.

 

[InChristAlone]

Great comments here guys. I was immediately interested in this protocol when Thor posted the interview with Dr. Stephens because I've been self medicating with sugar my entire life. Just recently actually I was able to quit all refined sources, at least for several days at a time, then this topic comes up! I'm really hopeful about it, but at the same time cautious just as I was with the low vitamin A stuff.

I tried 1 TBS 4 times a day and my anxiety came back unfortunately, I was told that I likely needed more more than this that I had to go all in if I was to do the protocol and that may be true, but I'm hesitant to try again because of my history with panic attacks. My mental health has been so good lately, it's hard to mess that up. Also I had digestive problems, massive bloating so bad I felt like a whale and my reflux came back. Very strange given my history of consuming a lot of refined sugar. It almost seemed like refeeding syndrome type problems.

So I do think there is truth to needing large amounts to overcome this, as the brain says 'wow I'm actually getting what I need now give me more so I can accomplish all this healing that has been put on the backburner'. I think that is what Garrett Smith is missing, plus not realizing there's a big difference between fructose and glucose. Fructose cannot cross the blood brain barrier and just clogs up the system over time.

 

[Sebastian B]

Great comments here guys. I was immediately interested in this protocol when Thor posted the interview with Dr. Stephens because I've been self medicating with sugar my entire life. Just recently actually I was able to quit all refined sources, at least for several days at a time, then this topic comes up! I'm really hopeful about it, but at the same time cautious just as I was with the low vitamin A stuff.

I tried 1 TBS 4 times a day and my anxiety came back unfortunately, I was told that I likely needed more more than this that I had to go all in if I was to do the protocol and that may be true, but I'm hesitant to try again because of my history with panic attacks. My mental health has been so good lately, it's hard to mess that up. Also I had digestive problems, massive bloating so bad I felt like a whale and my reflux came back. Very strange given my history of consuming a lot of refined sugar. It almost seemed like refeeding syndrome type problems.

So I do think there is truth to needing large amounts to overcome this, as the brain says 'wow I'm actually getting what I need now give me more so I can accomplish all this healing that has been put on the backburner'. I think that is what Garrett Smith is missing, plus not realizing there's a big difference between fructose and glucose. Fructose cannot cross the blood brain barrier and just clogs up the system over time.

I also dealt with panic attacks and anxiety on the Ray Peat diet. It got so bad that even drinking water triggered an adrenaline reaction. This started when I was on keto and fasting, eating six to eight eggs a day. I definitely think there's a correlation to high toxic vitamin A intake. It actually improved a lot when I was on the Ray Peat diet, as eating mouthfuls of honey at a time was very therapeutic.

 

[InChristAlone]

Dr. Stephens has not noticed any of those issues.

It sounds reasonable on paper, but we come from a background of focusing on those micro-nutrients for decades.

Somehow, we have been programmed to believe that we can barely get the minimum requirement everyday by eating the most nutritious food that exists. As if it's an everyday struggle to meet the requirement. Part of this is around a grave misunderstanding of what the RDA is about. The RDA is not the requirement.

The truth is, the requirement of minerals and vitamins is not very high. For most of the minerals, the requirement is not even known, or just estimated.

The actual thiamine requirement, according to EFSA, is around 0.25 - 0.3 mg per 1000 calories. For magnesium the requirement is around 165 mg. The RDA is always set higher to make sure everyone gets enough under any circumstances. 200g oats or 500g cooked brown rice already provides 165 mg magnesium.

Thiamine is the only nutrient where the requirement is directly connected to sugar/calory intake. So this is the only nutrient that could theoretically be depleted on glucose therapy.

300g dextrose is around 1000 calories. So you need to eat 0.3mg of thiamine to compensate for that.

Here's some random foods with their corresponding amounts that contain 0.3mg thiamine:

View attachment 62733

Those foods have between 40 and 500 calories. You need to eat merely around 80g oats to fully compensate for 1000 calories of dextrose. Most average people eat large amounts of pork - this provides excess amounts of thiamine.

The actual requirement of potassium is so low that most people can survive on a high salt diet that wastes enormous amounts of potassium while eating merely 1-2g of potassium per day. Just stopping the excess salt and not eating complete garbage will improve this massively. Eating natural foods will always give you 3-5g of potassium every day at minimum.

I love this post! I agree with you. What if people are needing massive amounts of thiamine because they are starving? Of glucose that is.

 

[Peater]

I tried 1 TBS 4 times a day and my anxiety came back unfortunately

Thanks for that. I am feeling quite unsettled, fractious, anxious and low in mood. This is not a new thing for me to feel this way (Hence trying the dextrose) but it seems to be provoking it sadly. I didn't want it to be the case but your anecdote is valuable to know.

I have just taken 4x tablespoons as a final do or die measure, and I will re-evaluate tomorrow.

The strange thing is, there's been no "sugar high". It's not something I can remember experiencing but I half expected it from this approach.

 

[Peater]

Low Toxin Videos - Cure depression (and more) with glucose

This thread makes me wonder if it's anything to do with copper being excreted from the liver. I wish I could do a real time test to see what's going on!

 

[mosaic01]

I tried 1 TBS 4 times a day

Try 1 tbs every hour, or even 2 tbs. 30-40g 2 times per day knocked me out for a week. I then took a small amount every hour (1 teaspoon) and it worked without any problems. The more I took, the less symptoms I had.

I also had digestive issues as well as social phobia problems from taking dextrose only 2-3 times per day.

I really think the issue is the sudden spikes without any glucose to follow up. This pushes detox but at the same time worsens the glucose deficiency. If there are negative reactions, the key is taking the same amount consistently every 1-2 hours for the first days, until liver glycogen is restored.

I don't think you can do any harm with glucose, every cell needs it. 1000 calories of glucose is nothing, the body just burns through it.

 

[TheCodez]

Thanks for that. I am feeling quite unsettled, fractious, anxious and low in mood. This is not a new thing for me to feel this way (Hence trying the dextrose) but it seems to be provoking it sadly. I didn't want it to be the case but your anecdote is valuable to know.

I have just taken 4x tablespoons as a final do or die measure, and I will re-evaluate tomorrow.

The strange thing is, there's been no "sugar high". It's not something I can remember experiencing but I half expected it from this approach.

5 tbsp seems to be the optimal daytime dose for me. I also feel no sugar rush (or crash), but at that dose, I'm quite confident that the lower end of my mood spectrum is elevated above my multi-decade normal and not in any sort of rollercoaster way either. Just a very stable and consistent all-day-all-night increased mood floor.

Additionally at night for years I've periodically woken up at around 1am, finding myself unable to lay still or get back to sleep. When that happens, 3 tbsp knocks it out and lets me get back to sleep within 30 minutes.

My biggest surprise has been that the additional calories seem to have zero impact on my composition, and trust me I'd notice if they did.

My sister, who has been greatly suffering from post concussion syndrome has seen remarkable improvement, but the entire experience has been much more subtle for me.