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Antihistamines Can Treat Anxiety-based Disorders Like PTSD

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    The specific drug studied was diphenhydramine (Benadryl), which Ray Peat recommends for several problems including endotoxin protection and liver support.
    http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/10/23 ... 61082.html
    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/ ... l.pdf+html

    However, I have seen pretty similar results for cyproheptadine, which is also antihistamine in action.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9606583
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10964879

    So, it seems that this may be a general property of the antihistamines. I wonder what the mechanism of action is. Based on Peat's ideas anxiety/PTSD/panic are probably caused by serotonin so that explains why cyproheptadine is effective since it's a general serotonin inverse agonist. But if Benadryl is working as well, then does that imply Benadryl has anti-serotonin action as well???
    Maybe somebody already exchanged emails with Peat on Benadryl and how he thinks the drug achieves its effects. So, please share what you know.
     
  2. pranarupa

    pranarupa Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    Not sure if other things are involved, but I'd guess that anything that inhibits the phase transition that releases histamine from platelets and mast cells also inhibits serotonin release.

    Not familiar with benadryl, my quack answer to everything is check your breathing, if you're losing co2 then everything's going to start going wonky.
     
  3. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    You might be interested in this discussion on Benadryl and serotonin: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2248
     
  4. pboy

    pboy Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    hmm...I think it can help, but its probably not due to a special healing property, but rather due to pure quieting of certain parts of the mind...I've drinking very strong antihistamine herbs, such as nettle leaf and others, and it does I guess reduce anxiety, but pretty much makes you want to pass out and stay out...until a really good nap is taken. I suppose that's how bendryl works, a deep rejuvanative, but mroeso due to the fact that allows, and almost requires, a good nap
     
  5. lindsay

    lindsay Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    if only benadryl didn't make me so drowsy :? what about loratadine? I find it helps my histamine problems without making me sleepy.
     
  6. SAFarmer

    SAFarmer Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    Hi Lindsay

    My son uses Loratadine too with good results. Here is a post I made about it in another thread,
    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2508&p=31355#p31355

    Cyproheptadine is a 1st generation anti-histamine drug. Second generation variants include cetirizine and loratadine with fewer side effects like drowsiness, etc. My son uses the last 2 and have very good response for hayfever and general better feeling when stressed because of the hayfever allergic reactions.

    Ray Peat has said that it is anti estrogenic and thats probably why he responds so well on it.
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    Hi SAFarmer,

    I saw your earlier post about loratadine and how it is anti-estrogenic. Are you sure Peat was talking about loratadine or cyproheptadine? I have some references that loratadine is actually quite estrogenic. If you are in contact with Peat I'd like to hear his opinion on this study:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16407038

    Not trying to be contrarian here, just saying that I did some research on the anti-histamines several years ago and they pretty much all have a warning that side effects may include low libido and even erectile dysfunction. As you can see, the study above found out a lot more than just dysfunction.
    Notably, drugs without such warning are Benadryl and cyproheptadine, which is why Peat probably has less issue suggesting them for use.
    Thoughts?
     
  8. SAFarmer

    SAFarmer Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    Hi Haidut

    You are perfectly in your right to question. I don't have an issue with it and just want to learn and know the truth as well.

    I did read it somewhere, and remember discussing it with my wife as well, because I am generally very sceptical of pharmaceutical drugs, and she said my son reacts well to Loratadine. I should have posted the source, but don't know why I didn't. I tried again to find the quote, but can't remeber where it was, or it was maybe a radio interview.

    Anyway, the closest I could find again, was this quote,

    http://raypeat.com/articles/hormones/h1.shtml
    Histamine mimics estrogen's effects on the uterus, and antihistamines block estrogen's effects (Szego, 1965, Szego and Davis, 1967).

    So I stand corrected, but it could also possibly have been my interpretation of all antihistamines being anti estrogen like. Cyproheptadine generally causes side effects like drowsiness and Loratadine do not do this to my son, which is why my wife gives it to him when needed.

    As to your quoted study, I cannot comment, as there is too little information available regarding dosage and also rats vs humans. (even if it were true, luckily my son is not in the uterus anymore ! :D )
     
  9. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    Here is a RP email advice to Charlie on use of Cetirizine. I believe it is also applicable to
    Loratadine , because there is chlorine attached to carbon molecule of Loratadine

    Full response with studies at
    viewtopic.php?f=68&t=1035&p=13904&hilit=benadryl#p13904
     
  10. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    INteresting - I took a cetirizine 2 hours ago (often get nasal drip after a coffee, was really bad today, i'm sure coffee doesn't agree with me!), and I feel very calm and focused now - doing some work on my business, boring accounts, but actually way more focused than normal.
     
  11. SAFarmer

    SAFarmer Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    I guess everyone must take his own chances. Ray Peat has said it's anti estrogen, so you have to weigh it against the possible side effects. Even the literature you mention states very rare occurances, 2 cases ! , and one does not know the possible effects of other drugs, which is also mentioned. As I said, and others, if it works for you, why not ?

    Ons can make the case for anything being negative in the wrong dose or with certain other substances. Life is complicated.
     
  12. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    Ray Peat sent me the studies below regarding Cetirizine. I will not be taking it anymore and will be trying to source pure Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) or Cyproheptadine.

     
  13. SAFarmer

    SAFarmer Member

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    Re: Antihistamines can treat anxiety-based disorders like PT

    Thanks Charlie . I 'll surely reconsider Citirizine use for my son as well. It seems keeping blood sugar levels up works better anyway .
     
  14. Seeweed65

    Seeweed65 Member

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    I know this is an old post but does anybody know if hydroxyzine dihydrochloride is Peat friendly? I've had a search and can seem to find anything!
     
  15. sele

    sele Member

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    The main metabolite of hydroxyzine dihydrochloride in the liver is cetrizine. Not Peat friendly.
     
  16. Seeweed65

    Seeweed65 Member

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    @sele Thanks for that info. My friend gave me some as I've got a 12 hour flight coming up and I cant ever sleep on a plane. He said it's the best think he's ever taken on a long haul flight, I'll give it a miss then.
     
  17. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    So its a no go on cetrizine? It has been working great for my anxiety.
     
  18. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    @sladerunner69

    I don't think it is a no-go. It should have many of the positive effects of the first generation Anthistamines discussed here - with the malus of potential harm or buden to yor liver. That's not to be taken lightly surely, but if ou for example only need allergy-medicine for a month ever year, it should be realtively safe.
     
  19. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Well I would like something to treat anxiety throughout the year, because I have post finasterid syndrome but no serious allergies that I am aware of. I know Peat mentionned the risk to the lvier but I dont see hwo much fo a risk it is, and why it is a risk exactly. Because the enzymes don't absorb chlorine as well as chloride? Does cetrizine even have chlorine in it?

    Perhaps benadryl is a safer bet, it jsut makes me tired and drowsy as heck
     
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