Antibiotics In Peatland

[rawmeat]

Hi all,

I would like to experiment with antibiotics... mainly to clear endotoxins, but I would also like to see what other effects they have on my health.

Ray, Danny, and @haidut all seem to be very pro-antibiotics, but I have not seen any guidelines on doses and time-periods. From what I've garnered, penicillin and minocycline appear to be the most recommended.

My question is: for someone looking to try antibiotics (per say minocycline) what is the recommended daily dose and length of time you should take them?

Thanks in advance.

 

[methylenewhite]

As far as there is no such prescription for reducing endotoxins I can imaging use long term doses of doxy and mino used for acne treatment as a reference. My friend is a dermatologist and he uses lots of doxy for acne treatments. His guideline for acne is 200 mg of doxy for two weeks( initial dose of 200 mg and after 100mg every 12 hours ) and then 10 weeks 100mg once a day. I did 2 weeks 200mg once a day in 01/19 with overall good results and currently Im on his regime with some modifications. Anyway we are in gray zone.

 

[Birdie]

Ray does give guidelines here and there in his interviews.
Says that it's the high dose regimens that cause trouble.

He uses them periodically, rather than constantly, and low dose rather than high dose.

 

[rawmeat]

Got a ton of minocycline that I will test out.

50mg tablets

 

[matisvijs]

Have you tried OTC ones like Flowers of Sulfur or Cascara? Ray has talked about both of those on podcasts and in his articles. For anyone getting into it I would try those first and watch for changes, they can probably be used more consistently. I think the consensus on pharma ones like minocycline is to use them cyclically unless you have a condition like schizophrenia.

 

[Birdie]

Another one Ray recommends is the raw carrot for its antibiotic properties.
How is your minocycline experiment going @rawmeat ?

 

[CLASH]

In my experience:

*for the small intestine: rifaximin, nystatin and ox bile acid taken together with a higher fat diet that includes coconut oil

*for the colon: enema of coconut oil with essential oils

*Systemic antibiotics can causes more issues than they solve sometimes, atleast in my experience. The options i listed above all remain in the gut and are less likely to lead to the issues caused by systemic antibiotics (i.e. fungal overgrowth, c.diff, opportunitic infections, etc). I messed up my colon for a while with tetracycline. A HCL supplement may help as well. Combining these options with a diet higher in monounsaturated/ saturated fat, and polyphenol rich fruits and root vegetables is what really helped out my gut. The polyphenols potentiate the effects of the antibioics on pathogens, while providing substrate for relatively neutral species mainly in the colon.


*Info on mino for autoimmunity (basically autoimmunity seems to be infections on the gut epithelium, the mino wasn’t curative, but it did keep the disease at bay):

Recommended Reading and Viewing (find "Pulsed" and "Harvard" Protocols Physician Packets here) - Road Back Foundation

 

[Inaut]

Which EO did you use again @CLASH

Cinnamon and?

I really like ginger, orange and @LeeLemonoil

 

[Adrienlcrx]

So do you advise to combine something like sweet potatoes with a little coconut oil @CLASH ?
Glycine help you there?

 

[Birdie]

@CLASH ,
Thanks for posting the link to the Pulsed and Harvard Protocols. That's the method I've been using mainly for fibromyalgia.
One warning though. My husband developed mottled teeth from using small amounts of doxy.

I read up on it and find that it does happen occasionally.
This usually happens only in developing teeth.

** I'm using the pulsed method from Road Back. I had tried the Marshal a few years back for a while. Paul Jaminet said, I think, in 2011, that he was going to use low dose doxy for Chronic Fatigue Syn.

 

[CLASH]

@Inaut
I used cinnamon and oregano oil.

@Adrienlcrx
I avoid sweet potatoes personally because they give me gas but I usually eat my starches with butter or beef tallow. Most of my fat is those 2, my body cant handle too much coconut oil, 10g max per meal most days.

@Birdie
No worries. How is it working for you?
At the doses in the protocol i wonder if its even the antibiotic effect thats helping out. The tetracycline class hass some unique anti-inflammatory effects seperate from the antibiotic effect.
Have you ever tried increasing your fat intake for fibro? I used to get extreme muscle tightness and muscle pain on a low fat diet (along with brain fog, fatigue, numerous daily adrenaline rushes, hyperhidrosis and mood issues). Once i increased my fat calories to 40-50% I felt way better. Paul recommends around the same percentage of calories from fat as well. Muscle preferentially burn fats at rest so I think some peoples bodies are adapted to using fat for thier musculature to spare glucose for the brain/ other vital functions. When a muscle is in a fatigued aka in an energy depleted state it is actually contracted, so providing fat, atleast for me, completely relaxed my muscles; no more tightness and inability to relax them. Also my energy significantly increased most likely because i had enough energy substrate on board now. The fat seemed to go to my muscles and allow for the sugar to go to other functions. I adjust my sugar intake based on activity both physically and mentally and generally keep my fat and protein stable. I also lost body fat/ water weight when i increased fat. I think my body was storing carbs as bodyfat and liberating the fat using adrenaline to allow my muscles to function properly. I still eat 30-40% carbs so its not low carb. The fats also help to clear the small intestine, where a large portion of endotoxin can be absorbed in an overgrowth and lead to metabolic issues like fibro depending on the persons predisposition. Either way increasing my fat helped alot, especially with my muscle issues.

 

[Birdie]

@CLASH,

Yes, I've found increasing the fat does help. Also, eating calves liver. Also some beef.
Also, yes, the low doses are theorized to be anti-inflammatory, and not antibiotic in action.
Ray often recommends low dose tetracyclines and penicillin type antibiotics.

He does think it's safer to be on the low fat side for keeping pufa lower.

 

[Dutch Thomson]

These guidelines are general. Don't mess with Penicillin if you have a serious medical condition, or if you are taking medications for which it is contraindicated. I am not a doctor, and in no way can my writing, words, opinions, etc. be taken as treatment for any condition, blah, blah, blah. Just don't sue me. This is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE!

Penicillin is recommended at lower doses for greater effectiveness. I just got Penicillin V in the smallest dose available (25o mg capsules). Based on what I've heard via podcasts and videos from the 3 amigos (Peat, Dinkov, Roddy), I am going to try one 250 mg tablet for 2 days. 250 mg for 2 days is significantly less than standard dosing to treat infections. I'll report back. If you never hear from me again, assume the worst ; )

If anyone has anything else to offer, please add your thoughts.

 

[Dutch Thomson]

Experiment done. Nothing major to report. Felt good, perhaps somewhat clearer headed. Definitely felt a boost of energy that lasted all day. For this reason, I don't recommend taking at night. That's it for now. I plan to wait 2 months, and repeat the process (one 250 mg tab a day for two days).

 

[qwazy]

I think I read somewhere that Ray Peat recommends 30mg of penicillin a day. Danny Roddy said something like 50mg. I can get the 500mg pills which can be somewhat easily be split into 8th. However, I don't think I can split the pills perfectly so instead of getting 62.5mg from 1/8th it will most likely be sometimes 80mg and other times 40mg. Now will the 80mg put one into trouble?