Help With Antibiotics

[Ron J]

Hello everyone
I'd like to know a few things about antibiotics, and would appreciate some suggestions.
Assuming that you don't have obvious health problems, or seem quite healthy, is it possible that an individual isn't as healthy as s/he can be due to some sort of bacteria/endotoxin, and only a course of antibiotics can achieve enough sterilization for the body to return to a better state?
Are both penicillin and amoxicillin equal? Or is one better/safer than the other?
What's the dose that doesn't drastically sterilize the gut, or with the least side effects?
Usually the strongest bacteria are the ones that survive the antibiotics; how do you prevent those from becoming an issue? Is a high dose the only way?
Why do many here report negative experiences with antibiotics?

 

[Blossom]

Assuming that you don't have obvious health problems, or seem quite healthy, is it possible that an individual isn't as healthy as s/he can be due to some sort of bacteria/endotoxin, and only a course of antibiotics can achieve enough sterilization for the body to return to a better state?

I personally think in a situation like this a person would be much better off sticking with things like antimicrobial fibers and maybe occasional activated charcoal. Antibiotics are great when there are problems that can't be resolved by other means but it seems needless and possibly risky to disrupt the normal flora in a person who seems quite healthy. Hopefully you'll get more opinions.

 

[foodandtheworld]

I would love to see answers to Ron's questions, as I am considering using an antibiotic.

 

[Ron J]

I personally think in a situation like this a person would be much better off sticking with things like antimicrobial fibers and maybe occasional activated charcoal. Antibiotics are great when there are problems that can't be resolved by other means but it seems needless and possibly risky to disrupt the normal flora in a person who seems quite healthy. Hopefully you'll get more opinions.

By that you mean stomach problems?
edit: or in a life/death situation?

 

[Blossom]

By that you mean stomach problems?
edit: or in a life/death situation?

Antibiotics have helped many people with a variety of issues. All kinds of bacterial infections, not limited to only the GI tract, can be treated with antibiotics quite successfully. They are wonderful when needed but they aren’t completely benign drugs either. Certainly everyone is entitled to experiment as they wish but there have been enough anecdotal reports on this forum alone of people claiming to have had worse problems from taking them that it seems unnecessarily risky if a person is already in good health and has no obvious need.
I wasn’t referring to life and death situations but there are critically ill people who do require them to recover.
If your gut instinct is that you need them I won’t discourage you from exploring the idea further. I was merely focusing on the phrase “seems quite healthy” and cautioning against them in that situation.
I’ve personally not noticed a difference between penicillin and amoxicillin. There’s a decent comparison chart of the two drugs in this link.
Amoxicillin vs. Penicillin

 

[Ron J]

Antibiotics have helped many people with a variety of issues. All kinds of bacterial infections, not limited to only the GI tract, can be treated with antibiotics quite successfully. They are wonderful when needed but they aren’t completely benign drugs either. Certainly everyone is entitled to experiment as they wish but there have been enough anecdotal reports on this forum alone of people claiming to have had worse problems from taking them that it seems unnecessarily risky if a person is already in good health and has no obvious need.
I wasn’t referring to life and death situations but there are critically ill people who do require them to recover.
If your gut instinct is that you need them I won’t discourage you from exploring the idea further. I was merely focusing on the phrase “seems quite healthy” and cautioning against them in that situation.
I’ve personally not noticed a difference between penicillin and amoxicillin. There’s a decent comparison chart of the two drugs in this link.
Amoxicillin vs. Penicillin

Thanks for the link.
Since a lot of problems start in the gut, I'm thinking that it may manifest in different ways among each individual. Some more serious than others, but it may be an indication that your health is not there yet, no matter how benign it may seem.

 

[Blossom]

Thanks for the link.
Since a lot of problems start in the gut, I'm thinking that it may manifest in different ways among each individual. Some more serious than others, but it may be an indication that your health is not there yet, no matter how benign it may seem.

You're welcome. I agree about the gut connection to overall health.

 

[Logan-]

I would love to see answers to Ron's questions, as I am considering using an antibiotic.

+1.

 

[foodandtheworld]

+1.

Well, I can reply now, since I've actually used minocycline for 6 days now. 100mg each day, plan on dropping it to 50mg for maybe one more week. Noticed that digestion has greatly improved. Used to have unpleasant diarrhea, gas, and rumbling stomach after eating sometimes, but that has totally vanished. Also, bowel movements were larger in diameter after taking the minocycline (reducing some inflammation in the intestine?). Previously, I also sometimes had adrenaline symptoms after eating (cold nose), which I suspected were caused by endotoxin, but that has vanished as well. So it seemed to have been a good experiment. (If one is going to use any antibiotic, read about possible side effects. For example, for minocycline, there is something called "intracranial hypertension". )

 

[Logan-]

Why did you choose minocycline over the other tetracyclines, if your aim was to get help with the gut related issues most?

I've read minocycline is for CNS issues mostly:

Minocycline is the most lipid-soluble of the tetracycline-class antibiotics, giving it the greatest penetration into the prostate and brain, but also the greatest amount of central nervous system-related side effects, such as vertigo. A common side effect is diarrhea. Uncommon side effects (with prolonged therapy) include skin discolouration and autoimmune disorders that are not seen with other drugs in the class.
Minocycline - Wikipedia

is it better to take tetracycline over minocycline or doxycycline? (i know theyre all tetracyclines)

I think any one of these is OK. Minocycline seems to target the nervous system more than the other two, hence why it is commonly used in studies for animal models of ALS, AD, MS, Parkinson, etc.

 

[foodandtheworld]

Gut: Minocycline Decreased Body Fat Accumulation From High-fat Diet And Improved The Microbiome Profile
Also for sinus issues: Acute bacterial sinusitis. Minocycline vs amoxicillin. - PubMed - NCBI
Also for skin: Minocycline has seriously turned my life around :) (nowhere as aggressive acne as this woman)
Also because it seems safe - it was used for 48 weeks in this trial at 200mg a day: Minocycline in Rheumatoid Arthritis: A 48-Week, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians
Also Ray has brought it up with respect to issues I was trying to address: Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki ctrl+f "minocycline"

 

[ecstatichamster]

Gut: Minocycline Decreased Body Fat Accumulation From High-fat Diet And Improved The Microbiome Profile
Also for sinus issues: Acute bacterial sinusitis. Minocycline vs amoxicillin. - PubMed - NCBI
Also for skin: Minocycline has seriously turned my life around :) (nowhere as aggressive acne as this woman)
Also because it seems safe - it was used for 48 weeks in this trial at 200mg a day: Minocycline in Rheumatoid Arthritis: A 48-Week, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians
Also Ray has brought it up with respect to issues I was trying to address: Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki ctrl+f "minocycline"

Thank you.