"am I Crazy?" - Nicholas "Truly" - Cantstoppeating

[Nicholas]

Hi - went to a doctor today to try and deliver my case for getting antibiotics. I must have had a severe histamine/endotoxin reaction of some sort after eating some chocolate.....full on flu symptoms came, bloating, skin problems in a matter of 2 days...persistent cough. This has happened 2 times in the past year after eating something - one time was powdered cocoa, another was stress. each time, the same symptoms. the first time i had this issue, a doctor somehow gave me antibiotics and the issue was gone in 2 days. I already have a phobia with doctors, but this was the worst experience i've ever had today. She was completely contradicting herself numerous times....and told me that there are protocols for identifying bacterial infections (code for: i don't actually want to think). She refused. Doesn't my issue seem bacterial related? I remember ray peat mentioning that the "flu" is often just endotoxin overload/serotonin. my mind has also become very unstable.

 

[Brian]

am i crazy?

You can get Minocycline from All Day Chemist for $35 including shipping. That's likely cheaper than a doctor visit + prescription. Although it will probably take three weeks to arrive, so it's something that's good to have in stock in case you need it suddenly.

Methylene blue is another option. Do you have an intense red/infrared light source? You can combine the two for a greater effect.

When it comes to mild-moderate infections I think these are two safe options and there's no need to get a doctor involved.

 

[tara]

am i crazy?

This is how to looks to me at the moment.

Drs are discouraged from over-prescribing antibiotics because of concerns about developing antibiotic resistance in microbial populations.

As far as I can tell, the dangers of antibiotic resistance for the general population are very real. I think the biggest contribution to the problem is probably from the massive amounts of antibiotics routinely used in agriculture in some countries. But a combination of widespread use of antibioticss in humans combined with the common practice of people stopping antibiotic treatment too early (when they feel better) when it is used against serious pathogens, probably also contributes to this problem.

Drs tend to say that anti-biotics should only be used against significant bacterial infections, and not against viral infections and other conditions.
But knocking down intestinal bacteria can reduce the endotoxin load and so allow the body to use more of it's resources to handle the virus or other issues, and make people feel better. I don't think drs usually see regular endotoxin from normal gut bacteria as a bacterial infection to be treated with antibiotics.

To some extent I see it as a wider issue than just what will give the current patient the best short-term benefit. There is also a question of protecting the Commons - the effectiveness of our current antibiotics against potentially dangerous bacterial infections. Many experts see us as being in a temporary golden age of anti-biotic effectiveness.

Peat's usually recommendation for a safe and generally applicable tactic against endotoxin is the raw carrot. If you are struggling, and you don't react badly to the raw carrot, you could try having it 2 or 3 times a day.

Next step up, if you haven't already tried it, you could consider trying a generous dose of activated charcoal to help bring down the endotoxin load. Peat's main concerns with this are potential persorption of small particles, and of course that it soaks up nutrients. But he does recommend it for occasional use in some situations. It's probably better not to use it every day for extended periods, unless a particular case warrants it.
Not being antibiotic, I don't think AC raises any antibiotic resistance issues.

If you are at all constipated, that is worth addressing to help move on the endotoxin before it can get absorbed. Cascara sagrada is one possible approach.

Personally, I responded to my last cold with a bit of garlic (gives a bit of flavour the the carrot salad :)), and liked the effects so much that I've kept it up for weeks after the cold was gone. I don't know what issues arise from garlic wrt antibiotic resistance. Peat does not generally recommend it because it is hard on the GI tract.

 

[Nicholas]

am i crazy?

post 111151 This is how to looks to me at the moment.

Drs are discouraged from over-prescribing antibiotics because of concerns about developing antibiotic resistance in microbial populations.

As far as I can tell, the dangers of antibiotic resistance for the general population are very real. I think the biggest contribution to the problem is probably from the massive amounts of antibiotics routinely used in agriculture in some countries. But a combination of widespread use of antibioticss in humans combined with the common practice of people stopping antibiotic treatment too early (when they feel better) when it is used against serious pathogens, probably also contributes to this problem.

Drs tend to say that anti-biotics should only be used against significant bacterial infections, and not against viral infections and other conditions.
But knocking down intestinal bacteria can reduce the endotoxin load and so allow the body to use more of it's resources to handle the virus or other issues, and make people feel better. I don't think drs usually see regular endotoxin from normal gut bacteria as a bacterial infection to be treated with antibiotics.

To some extent I see it as a wider issue than just what will give the current patient the best short-term benefit. There is also a question of protecting the Commons - the effectiveness of our current antibiotics against potentially dangerous bacterial infections. Many experts see us as being in a temporary golden age of anti-biotic effectiveness.

Peat's usually recommendation for a safe and generally applicable tactic against endotoxin is the raw carrot. If you are struggling, and you don't react badly to the raw carrot, you could try having it 2 or 3 times a day.

Next step up, if you haven't already tried it, you could consider trying a generous dose of activated charcoal to help bring down the endotoxin load. Peat's main concerns with this are potential persorption of small particles, and of course that it soaks up nutrients. But he does recommend it for occasional use in some situations. It's probably better not to use it every day for extended periods, unless a particular case warrants it.
Not being antibiotic, I don't think AC raises any antibiotic resistance issues.

If you are at all constipated, that is worth addressing to help move on the endotoxin before it can get absorbed. Cascara sagrada is one possible approach.

Personally, I responded to my last cold with a bit of garlic (gives a bit of flavour the the carrot salad :)), and liked the effects so much that I've kept it up for weeks after the cold was gone. I don't know what issues arise from garlic wrt antibiotic resistance. Peat does not generally recommend it because it is hard on the GI tract.

thanks, Tara. adding garlic to the carrots may be helpful. I may also increase the frequency - i have been craving the carrot a lot lately...as well as fibrous foods (though i don't have constipation). Also was not aware of the activated charcoal.

 

[cantstoppeating]

am i crazy?

post 111147 Hi - went to a doctor today to try and deliver my case for getting antibiotics. I must have had a severe histamine/endotoxin reaction of some sort after eating some chocolate.....full on flu symptoms came, bloating, skin problems in a matter of 2 days...persistent cough. This has happened 2 times in the past year after eating something - one time was powdered cocoa, another was stress. each time, the same symptoms. the first time i had this issue, a doctor somehow gave me antibiotics and the issue was gone in 2 days. I already have a phobia with doctors, but this was the worst experience i've ever had today. She was completely contradicting herself numerous times....and told me that there are protocols for identifying bacterial infections (code for: i don't actually want to think). She refused. Doesn't my issue seem bacterial related? I remember ray peat mentioning that the "flu" is often just endotoxin overload/serotonin. my mind has also become very unstable.

Go to another doctor.

 

[Nicholas]

am i crazy?

post 111208

post 111147 Hi - went to a doctor today to try and deliver my case for getting antibiotics. I must have had a severe histamine/endotoxin reaction of some sort after eating some chocolate.....full on flu symptoms came, bloating, skin problems in a matter of 2 days...persistent cough. This has happened 2 times in the past year after eating something - one time was powdered cocoa, another was stress. each time, the same symptoms. the first time i had this issue, a doctor somehow gave me antibiotics and the issue was gone in 2 days. I already have a phobia with doctors, but this was the worst experience i've ever had today. She was completely contradicting herself numerous times....and told me that there are protocols for identifying bacterial infections (code for: i don't actually want to think). She refused. Doesn't my issue seem bacterial related? I remember ray peat mentioning that the "flu" is often just endotoxin overload/serotonin. my mind has also become very unstable.

Go to another doctor.

for now i am just going to take my inability to get antibiotics now from 2 different doctors over the past few months as sign that i don't need them right now. : )

 

[cantstoppeating]

am i crazy?

Go to another doctor.

for now i am just going to take my inability to get antibiotics now from 2 different doctors over the past few months as sign that i don't need them right now. : )

Then you truly have gone crazy.

 

[Blossom]

You were just speaking about something that isn't recognized in medicine except maybe in very extreme cases. When this happens the go to attitude from doctors is often to view the patient as having some psychological problem. This can be conveyed subtly or overtly and if you are male it will often just be attributed to extreme stress but in females we are often viewed immediately as depressed or hysterical.

You know your body better than anyone else so you should probably trust your gut and find a way to tackle this issue on your own or search for another doctor. A decent one will at least explain intelligently and respectfully why they disagree with your assessment of the situation.

You are not crazy but you would be wise to consider that doctors are not correct all the time.

 

[Nicholas]

post 111222 You were just speaking about something that isn't recognized in medicine except maybe in very extreme cases. When this happens the go to attitude from doctors is often to view the patient as having some psychological problem. This can be conveyed subtly or overtly and if you are male it will often just be attributed to extreme stress but in females we are often viewed immediately as depressed or hysterical.

You know your body better than anyone else so you should probably trust your gut and find a way to tackle this issue on your own or search for another doctor. A decent one will at least explain intelligently and respectfully why they disagree with your assessment of the situation.

You are not crazy but you would be wise to consider that doctors are not correct all the time.

funny, it's such a delicate thing working with doctors. the doctor yesterday was acting very suspicious as to why i was there - as if needing antibiotics was not the real reason. weirdness... in this case, i know i'm correct that it's a bacterial problem from a case that would take too long to explain here - as well as the fact that i've found the carrot to be very relieving of the situation. what i'm choosing to accept at this time is that perhaps it is better in my particular context to use more gentle approaches.....not all the science is out on antibiotics.....and maybe in certain contexts, antibiotics come with a more negative tradeoff. did the doctor tell me that? absolutely not... : )

this guy has some very very interesting articles and seems to be thinking and researching on a very deep level about gut bacteria....and he seems mostly against antibiotics:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com ... eases.html

 

[messtafarian]

post 111148 You can get Minocycline from All Day Chemist for $35 including shipping. That's likely cheaper than a doctor visit + prescription. Although it will probably take three weeks to arrive, so it's something that's good to have in stock in case you need it suddenly.

Methylene blue is another option. Do you have an intense red/infrared light source? You can combine the two for a greater effect.

When it comes to mild-moderate infections I think these are two safe options and there's no need to get a doctor involved.

ADC is no longer selling Wyeth made mino. Instead their manufacturer is Sun Pharma in India, which has had some sanctions from the FDA in the past year. I was asking about this on another thread -- Wyeth mino from FDN instead is 33 US dollars for 12 tabs. I love ADC -- I've ordered and been very happy with them in the past but I don't know if I would eat drugs from Sun Pharma. Is there another source anyone knows about?

 

[Blossom]

post 111685 ADC is no longer selling Wyeth made mino. Instead their manufacturer is Sun Pharma in India, which has had some sanctions from the FDA in the past year. I was asking about this on another thread -- Wyeth mino from FDN instead is 33 US dollars for 12 tabs. I love ADC -- I've ordered and been very happy with them in the past but I don't know if I would eat drugs from Sun Pharma. Is there another source anyone knows about?
[/quote
https://www.inhousechemist.vu/search.as ... inocycline

 

[messtafarian]

TY!

 

[messtafarian]

post 111225

post 111222 You were just speaking about something that isn't recognized in medicine except maybe in very extreme cases. When this happens the go to attitude from doctors is often to view the patient as having some psychological problem. This can be conveyed subtly or overtly and if you are male it will often just be attributed to extreme stress but in females we are often viewed immediately as depressed or hysterical.

You know your body better than anyone else so you should probably trust your gut and find a way to tackle this issue on your own or search for another doctor. A decent one will at least explain intelligently and respectfully why they disagree with your assessment of the situation.

You are not crazy but you would be wise to consider that doctors are not correct all the time.

funny, it's such a delicate thing working with doctors. the doctor yesterday was acting very suspicious as to why i was there - as if needing antibiotics was not the real reason. weirdness... in this case, i know i'm correct that it's a bacterial problem from a case that would take too long to explain here - as well as the fact that i've found the carrot to be very relieving of the situation. what i'm choosing to accept at this time is that perhaps it is better in my particular context to use more gentle approaches.....not all the science is out on antibiotics.....and maybe in certain contexts, antibiotics come with a more negative tradeoff. did the doctor tell me that? absolutely not... : )

this guy has some very very interesting articles and seems to be thinking and researching on a very deep level about gut bacteria....and he seems mostly against antibiotics:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com ... eases.html

Actually I don't think doctors very often think their patients are crazy. We must be there for a reason. I've never felt accused of being crazy; but I have felt that they *disagreed* with my assessment of what was going on.

There is an overall moratorium on "unnecessary" antibiotics, even when it's obvious they'd fix the problem. I think it comes not only from the whole idea that we're using up the therapeutic value of them but also -- for gut doctors -- they are all worried about c. diff and this conception that antibiotics "kill the good bacteria." After my visit to the hospital the next thing my doctor told me to do was buy this probiotic called Align in order to repopulate my gut with "good bacteria." There is really no good science that these products do *anything* to protect from c. diff or that antibiotics can make an established gut infection worse. Doctors think they understand the microbiome but they don't. Not even researchers really understand it -- but one thing they'd probably agree with is that there is nothing *better* than a sterile gut.

I also figure there was a craze for antibiotic treatment in the early 2000's due to medicine's newly discovered superpower of eradicating H. Pylori. I'm sure there were lots of gut-related antibiotics prescribed and then suddenly a rash of nearly-lethal c. diff, which really only strikes hospital patients. C. diff doesn't live in coffeeshops, it lives in catheters and hospital kitchens.

Et voila, no abx for Nicholas .

Nicholas, when you went to the doctor, did he do a CBC? You would be able to tell from those numbers whether you were dealing with a bacterial infection from the ratio of neutrophils to lymphocytes.

 

[James_001]

OP, are you aware that you can literally buy any substance you want online? Pm me if you want some sources....

 

[Nicholas]

post 111693 Nicholas, when you went to the doctor, did he do a CBC? You would be able to tell from those numbers whether you were dealing with a bacterial infection from the ratio of neutrophils to lymphocytes.

no. i figure i'll just get through it like i did last time. i can tell it's tapering off. when i eat the carrot salad, i have a slight pain in my stomach....which i've never felt before eating the carrot salad. followed by a relief of the flu symptoms within 10minutes. i've been eating a lot and craving large meals and i feel that's helping as well. weird, but around the time this came on i also stopped eating resistant starch (cooled roots that are re-heated) and my appetite has been so huge.....despite technically being sick (after i ate some chocolate which has caused these flu-symptoms to come on before), i feel like my whole body chemistry is changing for the better. I feel younger and more warm than before and more easy to smile/laugh and more relaxed....more inspired. with my newfound hunger (i didn't feel like i had a suppressed appetite before really) i have been doing some things out of moderation and not the greatest balancing so that's my next step.

 

[Rickyman]

OP, are you aware that you can literally buy any substance you want online? Pm me if you want some sources....

I can't pm you for sources why is that?