LPR (silent Reflux) Going Up To Ears

[Mito]

Do you need a prescription for it?

Nope. Digital Security

 

[charlie]

Some additional ideas here: https://fixyourgut.com/silent-reflux-lerd-a-digestive-condition-that-mimics-other-health-issues/

This guy says vitamin D too. Also zinc can help. When I asked Peat about GERD he asked about vitamin D status.

 

[MoonDay]

The zinc in the zinc carnosine is minimal, and from my readings, it goes right into the stomach tissue and not into circulation, so it does not really raise your zinc levels to any degree. If you are not sure, just back off your normal zinc dosage while using the zinc carnosine. I have never read any cautions or negative press on the DGL, many people for many years have used it safely, unlike non-DG licorice which can raise blood pressure in some people if too high of a dose is taken. D-limonene is the same as limonene. It does work. It is recommended to use one capsule every other day for 20 days. More is not better, over consumption could irritate the gut lining (d-limonene was the only thing that worked for my wife). The aloe is something I have not tried yet, but I am ordering very soon, as I have just found out about this form of aloe. It is a good for gut healing whether you have GERD or not. Probiotics are definitely a good thing. Also, I have read that turmeric or curcumin (if tolerated) is very healing to the gut because it is anti-inflammatory. I am going to trial the melatonin for GERD, since there is just too much science to show it is beneficial if not curing for GERD. I have done most of these together with each other, they don't antagonize each other, probably synergistic if anything. One more thing to consider, sometimes GERD is a result of stomach infection, from fungal (candida), bacteria, etc. It would be wise to make a diet change to low carb, and take antifungals like oil of oregano, olive leaf extract, silver, iodine, GSE, etc., etc. Also, mastic gum without other things is very healing to the gut, it will also get rid of H. Pylorie bacteria if that would happen to be the cause behind your GERD.

Please let me know how your melatonin trail is going and how long are you going to take it with what dosage? I think i am going to start it as well and will let you know if interested.

 

[charlie]

BTW I looked up nettle and it raises prolactin. Not gonna go down that route. Taste good though.

 

[MoonDay]

BTW I looked up nettle and it raises prolactin. Not gonna go down that route. Taste good though.

I am quite reluctant to try things that claiming so much but not yet backed up by science. I think that me getting crazy on garlic ginger tea and turmeric tea might be the cause of my LPR. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing right. The key is moderation. That's what i believe in now at least. :)

 

[meatbag]

@meatbag No, i was never into coffee but i used to drink green tea a lot.

The last link says GERD is caused by inflammation. Does that apply to LPR as well? I don't have the typical heartburn symptom, my burning is in my throat area.
My thyroid was fine according to my annual physical done by Quest lab. So if it's caused by hypothyroidism then you would think that my numbers would be abnormal or is there any other tests i should run?

"JOHN BURKHAUSEN: Lilliah asks – there was a follow-up question to that last one. Let me just get that before I move on because I'll lose it. Hang on a second. Let me find that. This is also – hang on. Here it is. Yes, it was a undigested food question. If you tend to constantly have excessive air, chest pressure or feeling the need to burp, is that a sign of low stomach acid with undigested food causing problems or too much stomach acid? And what would you do about it? If you have any idea.

RAY PEAT: Basically no. A lot of different things can cause that. Some people can actually have reverse peristalsis. When you analyze burps, most of the time it's air that you’ve swallowed coming back, just plain, perfect air. But sometimes you find other gases such as methane coming out in burps. And Walter Alvarez – one of the interesting things he demonstrated was that it’s pretty common for people to experience very, very intense reverse peristalsis. He put some lycopodium powder in his medical students’ rectums when they went home for…

RAY PEAT: If you're low thyroid, your autonomic nervous system tends to rev up compensating for the low oxidative metabolism. It pushes it harder to increase your adrenaline, in particular. Some of the other things, histamine and serotonin, go up too. But the adrenaline tends to stop the forward propulsion of the peristalsis and then random signals, irritation from something in your intestine can probably send waves going both directions and that probably is more common when your digestive system is slightly paralyzed by very high adrenaline level."
~https://l-i-g-h-t.com/transcript-463

"
SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And the unfortunate thing is when someone is low thyroid, they’re usually very thirsty all the time, anyway, so they crave that water and think they have to have that water, they say their body’s really craving it.

RAY PEAT: Yes, it causes the tissues to retain water, even though it’s passing through them, through the kidneys mostly, and they’re not producing much evaporation through their lungs or skin, but it tends to leak out of their bloodstream, into the tissues and produce oedema, and oedema is harmful to all of the tissues in a direct way and it turns on a whole anabolic system, shifting away from oxidative metabolism, activating lipolysis, the release of fatty acids, shifting cell metabolism towards burning fat rather than sugar, imitating diabetes and aging. So it’s a generalized shock physiology that’s involved, when cells get waterlogged.

It can start with low thyroid, but it repeats back and makes the low thyroid problem worse.

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So that’s why you said that any leaf extract or tea made from a leaf of a plant is going to have minerals to help prevent this from happening. And if you made a cup of tea you’d sip it slowly, you wouldn’t just drink it down like a pint of water.

RAY PEAT: Yes, and the minerals, it isn’t essential that it be magnesium and potassium; calcium and sodium have many of the same functions even though each thing has its place in the mechanisms. If you’re in shock you can relieve the symptoms pretty much by taking more of any one of the alkaline minerals, potassium, sodium, magnesium or calcium. In heart failure and lung inflammation, many of the things that happen with shock or aging or any serious disease, the lungs and the heart tend to get waterlogged, and lose function. Just giving a very concentrated salt solution intravenously will relieve the symptoms very often. They’ve doubled the survival - cut the mortality rate in half by just giving extra sodium intravenously."
~https://l-i-g-h-t.com/transcript-403

----
I recommend this article about fish oil, I used to use large amounts of it after it was recommended to me and it seemed to cause me many problems
The Great Fish Oil Experiment

While your having stomach issues I would consider maybe reducing the starch intake (white rice without iron is probably okay too) in the diet as much as you feel comfortable with and using fruits/fruit juices sugars instead. I also think making sure your getting more sodium would be helpful (I saw you use miso but chicken broth would be worth trying). Salty fat free broth with a packet of know gelatin fully dissolved in, for salt morton's canning and pickling salt is the purest and is 99c for a huge box. I think using milk/cheese as a protein source would also be helpful. I think the issue is due to inappropriate action of the muscles and diaphgrams rather than excessive stomach acid, and that thyroid (t3) and an anti-seritonin compound would be helpful and I agree with what haidut said here, maybe it'll be helpful to you;

"I think it applies to all refluxes where damage to the mucosa/lining is involved. The chemical burn theory is just too simplistic to account for that. The real question is what is causing this acid being able to go up and the answer is high cortisol from hypothyroidism. The cortisol weakens many muscles, including the ones lining the esophagus and it is not a mere coincidence that GERD and LPRD usually start in the 3rd decde of life and increase with age. This coincides with the slowign of metabolism and the increase in cortisol/DHEA and cortisol/testosterone ratios, which leads to generalized atrophy and muscle loss and weakness. A very old study showed that ingesting some pure T3 completely eliminated GERD symptoms for a few hours. If cortisol is the main cause, then things like emodin/cascara, pregnenolone, thyroid, vitamin A, zinc, etc (all substances lowering cortisol) should be therapeutic."

I would drop all supplements and teas (except some green and black tea sweetened with white sugar), I don't think any of the one's mentioned except vitamin d would be helpful. If it were me I'd do the above and probably try progesterone/dhea also. I think a lot of the medicines and supplements have contributed and that your diet is a bit high in PUFA and flourides from the tea. That is my from reading stuff on the forum and from Ray Peat and some of my experiences (I used most of the supps you mentioned in the past)

You can look up interviews with Peat on the forum and that l-i-g-h-t site

I also think these two podcast Danny Roddy made would have some helpful info, first with Peat and the second is with haidut from the forum. There's more on youtube too

 

[meatbag]

“Appetizing foods stimulate the digestive secretions, but it’s important to avoid foods that directly trigger an inflammatory reaction, or that are indigestible and as a result support harmful bacterial growth. Cellulose can accelerate transit through the intestine and lower estrogen systemically(partly by simply preventing the reabsorption of estrogen that has been secreted by the bile), but the lignans found in many seeds and grains tend to promote inflammation. Raw carrots, for example, lower estrogen, while flax meal can increase it. Constipation or diarrhea, or their alternation, usually develops when there is inflammation in the bowel. A laxative can sometimes reduce the inflammation, but it’s important to identify the foods that contribute to the problem. A salad of shredded carrot, with oil and vinegar dressing, has a germicidal action, and is stimulating to the digestive processes. Most salad vegetables, though, are likely to produce intestinal irritation, directly or as a result of bacterial decomposition.”
~Ray Peat, PhD on the Benefits of the Raw Carrot – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

This always helps with my digestive problems

 

[mangoes]

It would be awesome if it is the cure for LPR. Do you personally know anyone who had this injection done and had success with it? I wonder why my ENT didn't mention about it at all. He said something like injecting botox in UES helps but if you have LPR, it doesn't work or something. I am going to ask him about this injection when i see him next.

Would be awesome. Nah, I don't know anyone personally who's had it done, although I'm willing to try it myself, lol. it's a three month treatment with the injections becoming less frequent over the course of the time. The reason your ENT wouldn't have mentioned it is coz that study was the first of its kind, and done in Korea. I'm planning on going there eventually, lol, but it's definitely experimental. If I had someone who'd be willing to provide it where I live, I'd opt for that but I wouldn't be able to get someone qualified to I don't think.
& its lidocaine. I had never heard of the Botox thing before though, interesting

Edit: I think there are many great suggestions and posts in this thread that' if I were you, I'd listen to first. I've pretty much tried everything that's been mentioned here but I think my case of LPR is different to many. Like Haidut said it starts a lot in the third decade of life, mine started reallllly young, I'm not even close to 30 yet, I think my case is particular. So yeah I think it's probable that the nervous system being implicated is probably a bit more salient to a smaller part of the population with LPR

 

[Pompadour]

I can advise to read a book of Norman Robillard. He suggests that GERD and LPR are from SIBO and he has interesting ideas for the diet. I think it can be good mixed with Peat's ideas, because the diet is about easy to digest carbs. Robillard tends to minimise carbs and doesn't pay much attention to the quality of fats - but we can always make better choices with all the knowlege of this forum. A few years ago i had severe GERD and this kind of diet helped me a lot.

 

[EIRE24]

I can advise to read a book of Norman Robillard. He suggests that GERD and LPR are from SIBO and he has interesting ideas for the diet. I think it can be good mixed with Peat's ideas, because the diet is about easy to digest carbs. Robillard tends to minimise carbs and doesn't pay much attention to the quality of fats - but we can always make better choices with all the knowlege of this forum. A few years ago i had severe GERD and this kind of diet helped me a lot.

What actually got rid of the GERD?

 

[Pompadour]

What actually got rid of the GERD?

Made it significally less painfull. But as i took at the same time omeprasol - the result was not ideal. I had mostly biliary reflux and PPIs seem to slow gallbladder function. And i could not tolerate much fat.

After some time i found information about melatonin and some other additives via pubmed.com and started to use this instead of PPI:
(it is not all Peat-friendly)
melatonin - 6 mg
l-tryptophan, -200 mg
vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal 5 phosphate) - 25 mg
folic acid (as L-5- methyl folate) - 10 milligrams
vitamin B12 (as methylcobalamin) - 50 micrograms
betaine (trimethylglycine) - 100 mg
There was also methionine 100 mg - but i couldn't take it due to stomach erritation.

I used it for a few month... can't remember for sure, how long it took, to make things better.

And for the instant relief and before go to bed i used Life Extension Esophageal Guardian - i liked it more then Gaviscon suspension.

I can add, that my situation was grade B GERD (with errosions) and i was thinking about some kind of operation... magnetic ring or so...But in a year or so i felt better. Now i feel reflux from time to time - but it is not that bothering.

 

[EIRE24]

Made it significally less painfull. But as i took at the same time omeprasol - the result was not ideal. I had mostly biliary reflux and PPIs seem to slow gallbladder function. And i could not tolerate much fat.

After some time i found information about melatonin and some other additives via pubmed.com and started to use this instead of PPI:
(it is not all Peat-friendly)
melatonin - 6 mg
l-tryptophan, -200 mg
vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal 5 phosphate) - 25 mg
folic acid (as L-5- methyl folate) - 10 milligrams
vitamin B12 (as methylcobalamin) - 50 micrograms
betaine (trimethylglycine) - 100 mg
There was also methionine 100 mg - but i couldn't take it due to stomach erritation.

I used it for a few month... can't remember for sure, how long it took, to make things better.

And for the instant relief and before go to bed i used Life Extension Esophageal Guardian - i liked it more then Gaviscon suspension.

I can add, that my situation was grade B GERD (with errosions) and i was thinking about some kind of operation... magnetic ring or so...But in a year or so i felt better. Now i feel reflux from time to time - but it is not that bothering.

That's interesting. Erosion? You mean like erosion of the oesaphagus or lining of the stomach?

 

[Pompadour]

erosion of the oesaphagus

This exactly. (sorry for my bad english!)

 

[EIRE24]

This exactly. (sorry for my bad english!)

Wow that's scary. And it was caused by the acid that kept coming back up? Your English is good. Don't worry about it.

 

[Pompadour]

And it was caused by the acid that kept coming back up?

Yes, in my case - a mix of acid and bile. It's even worse and more damaging as acid alone.

 

[Dave Clark]

I am sure most of us already use this, but thought it was appropriate for this discussion, plus being very Peaty: Coconut For Acid Reflux Relief

 

[MoonDay]

"
"
RAY PEAT: Basically no. A lot of different things can cause that. Some people can actually have reverse peristalsis. When you analyze burps, most of the time it's air that you’ve swallowed coming back, just plain, perfect air. But sometimes you find other gases such as methane coming out in burps. And Walter Alvarez – one of the interesting things he demonstrated was that it’s pretty common for people to experience very, very intense reverse peristalsis. He put some lycopodium powder in his medical students’ rectums when they went home for…

RAY PEAT: If you're low thyroid, your autonomic nervous system tends to rev up compensating for the low oxidative metabolism. It pushes it harder to increase your adrenaline, in particular. Some of the other things, histamine and serotonin, go up too. But the adrenaline tends to stop the forward propulsion of the peristalsis and then random signals, irritation from something in your intestine can probably send waves going both directions and that probably is more common when your digestive system is slightly paralyzed by very high adrenaline level."
~https://l-i-g-h-t.com/transcript-463

"
SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And the unfortunate thing is when someone is low thyroid, they’re usually very thirsty all the time, anyway, so they crave that water and think they have to have that water, they say their body’s really craving it.

RAY PEAT: Yes, it causes the tissues to retain water, even though it’s passing through them, through the kidneys mostly, and they’re not producing much evaporation through their lungs or skin, but it tends to leak out of their bloodstream, into the tissues and produce oedema, and oedema is harmful to all of the tissues in a direct way and it turns on a whole anabolic system, shifting away from oxidative metabolism, activating lipolysis, the release of fatty acids, shifting cell metabolism towards burning fat rather than sugar, imitating diabetes and aging. So it’s a generalized shock physiology that’s involved, when cells get waterlogged.

It can start with low thyroid, but it repeats back and makes the low thyroid problem worse.

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So that’s why you said that any leaf extract or tea made from a leaf of a plant is going to have minerals to help prevent this from happening. And if you made a cup of tea you’d sip it slowly, you wouldn’t just drink it down like a pint of water.

RAY PEAT: Yes, and the minerals, it isn’t essential that it be magnesium and potassium; calcium and sodium have many of the same functions even though each thing has its place in the mechanisms. If you’re in shock you can relieve the symptoms pretty much by taking more of any one of the alkaline minerals, potassium, sodium, magnesium or calcium. In heart failure and lung inflammation, many of the things that happen with shock or aging or any serious disease, the lungs and the heart tend to get waterlogged, and lose function. Just giving a very concentrated salt solution intravenously will relieve the symptoms very often. They’ve doubled the survival - cut the mortality rate in half by just giving extra sodium intravenously."
~https://l-i-g-h-t.com/transcript-403

----
I recommend this article about fish oil, I used to use large amounts of it after it was recommended to me and it seemed to cause me many problems
The Great Fish Oil Experiment

While your having stomach issues I would consider maybe reducing the starch intake (white rice without iron is probably okay too) in the diet as much as you feel comfortable with and using fruits/fruit juices sugars instead. I also think making sure your getting more sodium would be helpful (I saw you use miso but chicken broth would be worth trying). Salty fat free broth with a packet of know gelatin fully dissolved in, for salt morton's canning and pickling salt is the purest and is 99c for a huge box. I think using milk/cheese as a protein source would also be helpful. I think the issue is due to inappropriate action of the muscles and diaphgrams rather than excessive stomach acid, and that thyroid (t3) and an anti-seritonin compound would be helpful and I agree with what haidut said here, maybe it'll be helpful to you;

"I think it applies to all refluxes where damage to the mucosa/lining is involved. The chemical burn theory is just too simplistic to account for that. The real question is what is causing this acid being able to go up and the answer is high cortisol from hypothyroidism. The cortisol weakens many muscles, including the ones lining the esophagus and it is not a mere coincidence that GERD and LPRD usually start in the 3rd decde of life and increase with age. This coincides with the slowign of metabolism and the increase in cortisol/DHEA and cortisol/testosterone ratios, which leads to generalized atrophy and muscle loss and weakness. A very old study showed that ingesting some pure T3 completely eliminated GERD symptoms for a few hours. If cortisol is the main cause, then things like emodin/cascara, pregnenolone, thyroid, vitamin A, zinc, etc (all substances lowering cortisol) should be therapeutic."

I would drop all supplements and teas (except some green and black tea sweetened with white sugar), I don't think any of the one's mentioned except vitamin d would be helpful. If it were me I'd do the above and probably try progesterone/dhea also. I think a lot of the medicines and supplements have contributed and that your diet is a bit high in PUFA and flourides from the tea. That is my from reading stuff on the forum and from Ray Peat and some of my experiences (I used most of the supps you mentioned in the past)

You can look up interviews with Peat on the forum and that l-i-g-h-t site

I also think these two podcast Danny Roddy made would have some helpful info, first with Peat and the second is with haidut from the forum. There's more on youtube too

I think i will stop taking fish oil altogether and will get omega 3 from fish. I think you're right about dropping the supplements at least for a while, I never really enjoyed swallowing them anyways. Do you take any supplements these days at all if you don't mind sharing? All supplements has the statement saying that how their claims are not proven by FDA, that says a lot about synthetic industry.

I use tofu and jasmine rice more these days i wonder they're really that less starchier than pasta/bread. Can you recommend a good reliable brand for zinc carnoisane and gelatin? I think i will make that carrot salad as well looks delicious. I enjoyed listening peat and haidut talks as well. Thanks.
"emodin/cascara" What are these? I'm kind of getting overwhelmed by where and what to start taking.
High cortisol production could be the cause of it all like you said and would like to do further thyroid testing but my annual physical says "no further testing is necessary" I don't know how to go about tell my dr "Hey, You know what, I don't believe these lab results and i want to do more tests." Then she would think that i am hypochondriac. lol
Do you think smoking weed would lower cortisol? Sorry for asking lots of questions.

 

[MoonDay]

I want to thank everyone for responding and giving advises.

Would be awesome. Nah, I don't know anyone personally who's had it done, although I'm willing to try it myself, lol. it's a three month treatment with the injections becoming less frequent over the course of the time. The reason your ENT wouldn't have mentioned it is coz that study was the first of its kind, and done in Korea. I'm planning on going there eventually, lol, but it's definitely experimental. If I had someone who'd be willing to provide it where I live, I'd opt for that but I wouldn't be able to get someone qualified to I don't think.
& its lidocaine. I had never heard of the Botox thing before though, interesting

Edit: I think there are many great suggestions and posts in this thread that' if I were you, I'd listen to first. I've pretty much tried everything that's been mentioned here but I think my case of LPR is different to many. Like Haidut said it starts a lot in the third decade of life, mine started reallllly young, I'm not even close to 30 yet, I think my case is particular. So yeah I think it's probable that the nervous system being implicated is probably a bit more salient to a smaller part of the population with LPR

Are you planning to do it in the near future? Mine might be a special case too since it really started in my mid 20's but it was milder GERD but then again 80% of my diet was fast foods. I only started eating healthier since late 20's and started cooking.
Did you eat lots of junk food too? Do you have family members who had GERD/LPR?

 

[MoonDay]

Nope. Digital Security

Thanks.

 

[MoonDay]

Made it significally less painfull. But as i took at the same time omeprasol - the result was not ideal. I had mostly biliary reflux and PPIs seem to slow gallbladder function. And i could not tolerate much fat.

After some time i found information about melatonin and some other additives via pubmed.com and started to use this instead of PPI:
(it is not all Peat-friendly)
melatonin - 6 mg
l-tryptophan, -200 mg
vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal 5 phosphate) - 25 mg
folic acid (as L-5- methyl folate) - 10 milligrams
vitamin B12 (as methylcobalamin) - 50 micrograms
betaine (trimethylglycine) - 100 mg
There was also methionine 100 mg - but i couldn't take it due to stomach erritation.

I used it for a few month... can't remember for sure, how long it took, to make things better.

And for the instant relief and before go to bed i used Life Extension Esophageal Guardian - i liked it more then Gaviscon suspension.

I can add, that my situation was grade B GERD (with errosions) and i was thinking about some kind of operation... magnetic ring or so...But in a year or so i felt better. Now i feel reflux from time to time - but it is not that bothering.

Thanks for the book recommendation. While you were taking these list of supplements you had completely stopped taking PPI's?