A Peat Diet Will Not Save You From Alcohol Consumption

[calamityjane]

Someone said he was?? Oy vey.

Just cos Peck says don't make it so

 

[Birdie]

You keep saying AA is a religion like that's a fact. There is no worship, no hierarchy, no diety, no creed. To belong no person needs to accept any beliefs or profess adherence to any part of it. It's a group of people who get together to fill out worksheets and socialize as a group without partaking in alcohol. I even go to bars with my sober friends. If that's religion it's an extremely unremarkable one.

But it seems from the tenor of your posts you have some familiarity and resentment toward it, of which you'd not be the first.

Also, that my post was on the deleterious effects of alcohol as a substance seems to be lost on your obsession with AA. Would you care to provide some contribution to the practical and physical association of alcohol with illness and disease? I myself struggled to gain any foothold on my declining health for years. I even adopted the same Ray peat philosophies before I stopped drinking. It wasn't until after I stopped drinking that I was able to experience any permanent improvement in my physical health, and that had nothing to do with AA. AA is merely the social structure which enabled me to find support in quitting the substance. That quitting improved my health is a matter of chemistry.

That's good to hear. I sure agree that Ray's info is the missing link with recovery.
The coffee and donuts after meetings are just touching on it.
Obviously, the pufas aren't helpful, but I used to think the sweets were just a substitute addiction.
I like the way 12 Step Programs try to get you to be really honest which is part of recovery in many areas.

You might be right about alcohol use making it impossible to regain health, but I disagree there.
For some people, yes...
Too, some alcohol is more estrogenic, such as Peat reminds us the darker ones like Scotch, Beer and Red Wine I seem to recall.

But, for some, any alcohol is a life ruining danger. I have the utmost respect for anybody in recovery.

 

[Jayfish]

Not sure if most people missed Pboys post but it was pretty interesting and spot on.

I can enjoy drinks and health at the same time. Is Natedawg the anomaly or am I?

 

[natedawggh]

I have certainly known a few people who have gone to AA & god played a pretty big part. Most of them managed to give up drinking. They also gave up sociability, old friends and unfortunately, their sense of humour. Still it probably saved their lives so good luck to them

God is just a term people use to describe the finite nature of our existence. I don't use the term God. We usually use the term higher power, which could be a rock for all I care.

Yes, I had to give up some friendships in order to grow. Actually, you are exactly the kind of person I'd have no desire to be around. I imagine your friends need to drink around you as well.

 

[bobbybobbob]

I'm a bit blitzed at the moment. Had a great night this memorial day weekend. Drunkenly hit up the korean couple running the liquor shop with an "anyong-haseyo" to which they smiled. I followed up with my passable japanese (they always actually speak japanese but hate the fact that they do because they are racist biggots who will one day nuke tokyo).

Anyway, wound up drinking with san-goku-jin and rapping about korea and the incipient God Emperor Trump and it was all great fun. Booze is the best drug. So many great nights and memories.

 

[natedawggh]

Not sure if most people missed Pboys post but it was pretty interesting and spot on.

I can enjoy drinks and health at the same time. Is Natedawg the anomaly or am I?

1.) if you are healthy why are you on this forum?
2.) since you can't read, I'll state again that my post said people who are sick cannot experience an increase in health via Ray peat diet if they are drinking alcohol and continue to do so. So you're healthy and those conditions don't apply to you, go drink!

 

[bobbybobbob]

 

[calamityjane]

Clearly, or you wouldn't have used it in a sentence. But that wasn't what I asked. You must be drunk. It's an easy mistake. I asked how it was a demonstration of all these great qualities you supposedly haven't lost due to your drinking problem.

Gee I'm glad you don't call me names. That would be offensive.

 

[natedawggh]

Clearly, or you wouldn't have used it in a sentence. But that wasn't what I asked. You must be drunk. It's an easy mistake. I asked how it was a demonstration of all these great qualities you supposedly haven't lost due to your drinking problem.

Gee I'm glad you don't call me names. That would be offensive.

This is great fun, and I'm sorry I had some at your expense, but I hope you haven't lost sight of the fact that I sought to impart my hard won experience to those who may benefit from it and heal themselves from life threatening illnesses (I specifically had thyroid cancer and continue to deal with hypothyroidism). There is no reality in which a person with thyroid disease can drink alcohol and also heal from thyroid disease (and a host of other conditions). If you don't understand that you don't need to debate the morals of alcoholism. It's merely a discussion of biochemistry. If you have any of these conditions you're having trouble with, for me alcohol was the last barrier to experiencing healing, and I tried for years to heal without going sober. It didn't work. It wasn't until I quit that I was actually able to get my health back. I see many people struggling with the same thing, pretending like their drinking isn't a factor in their ill-health, living day after day in a lot of pain and discomfort, and I don't mind being the bad guy who has to come out and say that alcohol and good health are not friendly bedfellows. I have already helped a few people get better and it's worth every struggle. Specifically I healed my thyroid cancer, insomnia, fatty liver, erectile dysfunction, regrew my hair, lost 50 lbs, and my hypothyroidism is so manageable it's almost gone. If you have any of these specifically I have a host of other posts on here and a blog in which I detail my experience at F*CK Portion Control. There's a before and after picture in the very first post, if you'd like to see the physical results of my experience. Maybe you might find something to help with your own journey, whatever it is.

 

[calamityjane]

This is great fun, and I'm sorry I had some at your expense, but I hope you haven't lost sight of the fact that I sought to impart my hard won experience to those who may benefit from it and heal themselves from life threatening illnesses (I specifically had thyroid cancer and continue to deal with hypothyroidism). There is no reality in which a person with thyroid disease can drink alcohol and also heal from thyroid disease (and a host of other conditions). If you don't understand that you don't need to debate the morals of alcoholism. It's merely a discussion of biochemistry. If you have any of these conditions you're having trouble with, for me alcohol was the last barrier to experiencing healing, and I tried for years to heal without going sober. It didn't work. It wasn't until I quit that I was actually able to get my health back. I see many people struggling with the same thing, pretending like their drinking isn't a factor in their ill-health, living day after day in a lot of pain and discomfort, and I don't mind being the bad guy who has to come out and say that alcohol and good health are not friendly bedfellows. I have already helped a few people get better and it's worth every struggle. Specifically I healed my thyroid cancer, insomnia, fatty liver, erectile dysfunction, regrew my hair, lost 50 lbs, and my hypothyroidism is so manageable it's almost gone. If you have any of these specifically I have a host of other posts on here and a blog in which I detail my experience at F*CK Portion Control

OK Truce. I'm happy that you're finding your way whatever road you choose. I am baffled though that you think I have a drinking problem. I do have a problem with religion though BIG TIME so don't even get me started on that

 

[Footscray]

This has been a really interesting thread. I know it has descended into some name calling but I have got a bit out of it. My own experience with alcohol is my father and his father were both alcoholics and I grew up in and around Aussie pubs and football clubs awash with alcohol. And the first few years of my adult life I participated in that culture. I moved interstate hooked up with like minded crew and had some of the most fun times ever, without alcohol even present. I moved back to my home city eventually to start a family and found myself in the alcohol environment again. I have next to no desire for the stuff, after one drink,but find myself sometimes having a drink or two just to fit in. I know that sounds a bit weak willed but it's a tight rope we sometimes walk. But as for the idea that non drinkers lose their 'sense of humour'? I think drinkers 'have' to hang out with other drinkers to make themselves feel comfortable. I can tell stories and jokes with anyone but they are often uncomfortable around others not drinking.
Maybe for my own health I should stop completely for a time , and hopefully not be a zealot to others about that, but if that what it takes to reduce the stress hormones/response that I often feel I'll do it.

 

[natedawggh]

Clearly, or you wouldn't have used it in a sentence. But that wasn't what I asked. You must be drunk. It's an easy mistake. I asked how it was a demonstration of all these great qualities you supposedly haven't lost due to your drinking problem.

Gee I'm glad you don't call me names. That would be offensive.

OK Truce. I'm happy that you're finding your way whatever road you choose. I am baffled though that you think I have a drinking problem. I do have a problem with religion though BIG TIME so don't even get me started on that

I don't I was just giving you a hard time. I also have a horrible relation to religion. I was raised Mormon—actually a cult—and very conservative and full of abusers and it really screwed me up. AA is the antithesis of what I experienced in religion. It's full of all kinds of people and there's no requirement for joining, except wanting relief from alcohol addiction. As an agnostic I find it very welcoming, and it gave me the social structure and skill set to cut my need for alcohol. There are lots of crazy people in AA but that's because they're alcoholics and not that they're in AA. :) in essence it's a mental health support group.

 

[calamityjane]

I don't I was just giving you a hard time. I also have a horrible relation to religion. I was raised Mormon—actually a cult—and very conservative and full of abusers and it really screwed me up. AA is the antithesis of what I experienced in religion. It's full of all kinds of people and there's no requirement for joining, except wanting relief from alcohol addiction. As an agnostic I find it very welcoming, and it gave me the social structure and skill set to cut my need for alcohol. There are lots of crazy people in AA but that's because they're alcoholics and not that they're in AA. :) in essence it's a mental health support group.

Cool.

 

[mirc12354]

As much as I would like to believe that occasional drink does not affect my health much I must confess that it does. Bif time. Even just one beer screws me for at least a day energy wise... I did not really notice it before (when I did not have kids), since I could take it easy the hours/day/s after. But ever since I am a father of a 3 and 1 y. old I can clearly see it... the alchocol just sucks the energy out of me.

 

[Drareg]

Wait for it. Wait for it.
If you find it difficult or impossible to give up, as I did, you can get help at alcoholics anonymous.
And if that religion doesn't do it for you can always try some of the other good clean living non drinking non drug taking organizations
ISIS
Al-Qeada
Taliban
Most right wing Christian religions

ISIS are taking high doses of amphetamines and the like, a Saudi prince was recently caught with kilos of potent amphetamine on his private jet. Common knowledge.
This is why it's useless engaging in debate with them,they have veered into the pathological and now make it worse with abuse of said drugs.

To stop these groups rising we need to let their countries alone,let it to the people of that country to sort it out. Too late now unfortunately ,this will run its violent course for many years yet.

This is why governments are trying to tie up the money system,control the money and you will strangle them at the source, many countries using the same currency cashless will curb what these guys do, those who control the new system are in possibly the most powerful position in history, gauging human nature I think we will stop radical pseudo religious movements and end up with naive idealists at the top, a bit like American governments naivety believing the eastern countries would want capitalism and the illusion of freedom it brings.

 

[Drareg]

I had a rash/eczema on my leg that would occur every winter and would never go away. After one particularly heavy drinking session I noticed it cleared up from quite angry and inflamed to virtually gone and healed in a day.

These days I find its taken care off by carrot and vitamin b6 and helped with sun in summer time.

Interesting result, must be the alcohol suppressing the immune system, it could be looked at from a fish oil angle?
Peat mentions how injecting alcohol could curb cancer I believe, he did say that it should not be used for cancer of the colon.
We're talking clean alcohol obviously, not Budweiser or a martini in a syringe, probably being done somewhere for youtube video.

 

[Jayfish]

1.) if you are healthy why are you on this forum?
2.) since you can't read, I'll state again that my post said people who are sick cannot experience an increase in health via Ray peat diet if they are drinking alcohol and continue to do so. So you're healthy and those conditions don't apply to you, go drink!

Are only unhealthy people allowed on this forum? I am on here mainly for the interesting studies that Haidut posts. I like to give my own 2 cents on other posts that I may have had experience in.

I already said once that I drank alcohol during my recovery. I believe it might be you that can't read. Also, first you said that anyone who is trying to regain health is not compatible with alcohol but now your back peddling and saying that thyroid health is not compatible with alcohol.

I believe you to just be in the honeymoon phase of your own health journey where you believe that every epiphany you had in your own health must be the best strategy for all, as evident from other blog posts you have made. Don't worry, you will have many more epiphanies and look back in a few years to see your errors.

That's cool though, you are entitled to your opinion like everyone else. I just get a bit irritated with absolutist posts because I have seen it so many times throughout my health journey and without fail, absolutes are always wrong. Except maybe pufa avoidance, that may be the one universal, but I'm still not certain.

 

[tara]

Alcohol by nature is a force of entropy

I agree with this.

entropy is always stronger than forces of creation and healing

I don't agree with this - that creation of complex organisms happens at all attests to creation being stronger than entropy in some circumstances.

yet freely ingest something that is essentially pure estrogen (alcohol).

I don't think so - wine and beer probably contain significant estrogen; purer spirits like vodka probably not.

The sooner you give it up the faster you'll get better.

Quite possibly.

If you find it difficult or impossible to give up, as I did, you can get help at alcoholics anonymous.

This sounds like good advice to me.

Your notion is opinion, please don't construe your personal experiences to be fact for everyone.

+1

There's a clear connection between empire and booze. The mongols on campaign were big drinkers. The british navy were big on drinking. The roman legions drank loads. American frotiersmen were big on the whiskey. The Japanese while they worked insane hours and built up their country and export industries from a poor joke into #1 world powerhouse status, they drank like fish. Many, many great business organizations have been known for their drinking culture. It's a useful drug for blowing off stress and then coming back the next day and getting through shitty work you really don't want to be doing and building something great.

It's a useful to drug to get people hooked on if you are trying to get them to serve your expansionist goals, rather than their own human ones. Alcohol has been used to help subdue populations too.

I love the taste of wine and beer. I have never got into the habit of drinking alcohol at all because it is clear to me that it do more harm than good in general and to me in particular (increased headache/migraine risk the next day from even small amounts like half a glass of beer or wine).
I would recommend anyone to give it up.
But I know people who drink about one glass of wine on special occasions - maybe every month or two, or have a sip at communion every week, and I think that is unlikely to be doing much harm to most people, compared with drinking moderate amounts several days a week, or every having larger amounts ever. (Unless one is recovering from a stronger alcohol addiction, in which complete abstinence is much wiser.)

 

[tara]

Next someone will chime in with how such a former President or some other pseudo successful type drank daily.

Yeah, we've had at least one leader DIC of country.

You have chosen not see the evidence of a couple of drinks a day not being a problem.

I think there is evidence of harm - increased risk of cancers etc - from this level of drinking.

It could be just as likely that alcohol after work fills the time that people would normally spend thinking about their bad working conditions which they endure during the day. In my opinion, it's probably a way to keep the working class submissive automata.

+1

Our guts produce a small amount of ethanol, so it's not a totally foreign substance.

Yeah. I think Reams said that some people, with particular damage, can benefit from a small amount of alcohol. He lived for decades with a pancreas damaged by wartime shrapnel, and took doses of the order of a tsp of strong spirit (IIRC, something to do with helping regulate body temperature).

 

[Simonsays]

Very interesting thread.

Abstinence is the only known method of dealing with addiction, be it alcohol, gambling, drugs, food, exercise etc.

The root cause of all addictions of course, is childhood trauma and chronic stress.

This is why so many addicts cross addict. "The gym is full of junkies". They dont/cant deal with the root cause. Many are "oral" personalities , as in they are emotionally immature and stuck at this level of behavior. (this is seen in sexual behavior too, preferring oral sex, as opposed to more intimate eye to eye gazing.)

As i understand it AA or GA , tells them they have "a disease". This is a cop out i think, they are unhappy and their unhappiness stems from an unhappy childhood, they havent caught or developed a disease. The addiction never goes away its just transferred elsewhere. There isnt an "addicitive personality", as in its genetic, so i didnt have a chance! There maybe for some a slight genetic predisposition. (More non secretors of blood type in bodily fluids (15% of population), tend to be alcoholics, i learnt this on the blood group diet!)

I read somewhere , that an alcoholic has usually been drinking for twenty years before they admit they have a problem.

Many people drink alcohol , take drugs etc, recreationally, without developing a habit or do it to excess as they dont have a need or craving to do so. They are basically securer, happier, less stressed people in the first place, so the alcohol is not a crutch.

I think drinkers 'have' to hang out with other drinkers to make themselves feel comfortable. I can tell stories and jokes with anyone but they are often uncomfortable around others not drinking.[/QUOTE]

Very true. The worst for drinkers are "ex drinkers" as they remind them of their weakness and lack of control.

All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working hours or shorter rations. And when they become discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontentment led nowhere, because being without general ideas, they could only focus it on petty specific grievances.”

George Orwell was such a clever man.