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Does Alcohol Really Lower Testosterone?

Discussion in 'Beverages, Fruits, Sugars' started by AnonE, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. AnonE

    AnonE Member

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    Something I've taken away from life in general, and on this forum, is to question conventional wisdom and use my own eyes and observations, and feel free to ask questions.

    So something I wonder - does alcohol really lower testosterone?

    Because anecdotally I observe plenty of "high test" aggressive, rugged, masculine-looking men consuming much alcohol. Shouldn't they be getting less "manly"?

    What do you reckon is going on? Would they be even "higher test" without alcohol? Some random ideas I came up with:

    - Do some people respond differently from it?
    - Could alcohol decrease testosterone by helping convert it into something else, maybe both estrogen and DHT via whatever enzymes/receptors are responsible?
    - Could it be somehow helping to detox the liver, thereby indirectly improving hormones in some people?
    - Could lowered inhibitions lead to different thoughts and actions and mental cues that could then cause an increase of testosterone? E.g. lowered inhibition ---> social success ---> increase in T

    Would love to get your thoughts. I have a hard time believing that alcohol is a purely feminizing substance.

    --

    Here's what I found quickly googling:

    Alcohol's Effect on Testosterone May Explain Aggression
    Alcohol and Testosterone | Does Alcohol Lower Testosterone?
    https://prostate.net/articles/join-30-day-alcohol-fast-t-levels-liver-will-thank/
    Testosterone increases in men after a low dose of alcohol. - PubMed - NCBI (this one claims low dose increases)
     
  2. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    In this thread haidut comments on this
    Palmitic Acid Is Androgen Agonist, Increases Androgen Synthesis, Decreases Cortisol

    haidut said:
    Alcohol also is a great stimulator of 17,20-lyase and also lowers cortisol in the short run. So, a single night of drinking can bring good sexuality through raised androgens and less stress for some people. Obviously done chronically it does the opposite but I think there is a reason alcohol is so widely consumed - people feel good on it.


    "haidut If one were to drink alcohol (clear spirits) purely for this raised androgens effect and lowered cortisol, how many days per week do you think would be required to get the most benefits without the negatives you described from the chronic drinking?"

    Haidut:
    "I think in a person older than 30 it is very tricky as alcohol is also estrogenic and induces a reductive state. So, if a single night of drinking does not increase libido then alcohol will probably not have much of a DHEA stimulating effect, and should not be done often. If it does work, I would limit it to no more than 3 drinking sessions per week."
     
  3. skittles

    skittles Member

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    I've thought about this too. I wonder if it might also have something to do with an acute hormetic stress response. A lot of aggressive, rugged, masculine-looking men I've met in my life are the 'work hard, play hard' types. And while they typically stayed sober during the week aside from the odd beer here and there, the weekends usually had them getting pretty plastered, often hung over at some point.

    On top of that, these dudes aren't out there sipping craft beer. It's usually cheap dad-lager, with added corn syrup and low in estrogenic hops.
     
  4. OP
    AnonE

    AnonE Member

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    Could taking anti-estrogenic supps (fat soluble vitamins, etc) retain the plausible androgen increase while minimizing bad sides?

    So certain alcohols are more estrogenic than others? I never cared for beers, but anecdotally harder liquor (love gin and whisky) make me feel fantastic with minimal hangover ever. Though I take a lot of supps especially after I drink. Mainly fat soluble vitamins and zinc and magnesium.
     
  5. Cameron

    Cameron Member

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    Alcohol does increase 3a diol Wich breaks down dht to a metabolite that increase more "masculine" features like body hair maybe 3a diol is pretty androgenic itself dht is refured to as the king androgen but there are many potent 5ar compounds to consider
     
  6. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    All I can say is that at 21 years old, my total T levels were 299. At around 30, they stayed in the same range. I began drinking heavily at about 24-28, then 34-39, which is how old I am now. The last year span, my total T levels have basically remained at 460. Whatever was helping to increase that is debatable. The question is, could my binge drinking have prevented that from going any higher ? Who the hell really knows, perhaps I hit a capacity that won't go any higher with regular supplements. I have never attempted herbs like Tonkhat Ali, Tribulus. I have done Pregnenalone oral, and it didnt send my levels any higher. My last readings were in July, and my D level was finally corrected to 30, and my high triglycerides dropped. My total T was 460, and I had a period of sobriety there. It will be interesting to see what damage binge drinking from September through November really did. Nothing new though, I have had worse periods in my life.
     
  7. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    Out of interest what are you drinking? Spirits? Wine? Beer?
     
  8. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    The default is always clear vodka, by itself. Rarely white wine, and sometimes beer.
     
  9. Douglas Ek

    Douglas Ek Member

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    I think this has a lot to do with thyroid health and also how big you are. Obviously if your smaller you get more toxic dosages more easy from alcohol. Also if you have goot metabolism/young like haidut mentioned under 30 maybe you can get away with it easier. I think low thyroid is the reason why you eventually statt getting the hangover as you get older. I went from ***t hangovers with no libido. Once i fixed my thyroid now i never have hangovers and alcohol suddenly makes me horny. Also men who tend to like alcohol and drink a lot usually have sort of addictive personalities and also like women sex etc prob high libido from the start. Got beards coz they drink and dont care about hygiene etc. I dont think androgens and beard growth is that connected either. Sure just like baldin if you have the genes Androgens can speed up the process. But if you dont it really wont matter that much.
     
  10. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    My Testosterone was 288 at 21 years old, before I became a problem drinker. It’s in the 500s now, at 39, 13 years of on again off again binge drinking. I don’t know man.
     
  11. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Sorry didn’t realize I already said that
     
  12. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    I wouldn't overlook the condition of your GI tract and liver. If you have problems with either, alcohol is not going to help anything.
     
  13. Douglas Ek

    Douglas Ek Member

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    Not that big difference between 300 and 500 in the first place. Was it constantly 288 in your twenties? Ive been as low as close to 100 and close to 1000 within in a year or two. Im perfectly sure that there men who drinks everyday and still has 500-1000 in testosterone. So totally dont doubt you. I think alcohol by itself is not that destructive what tend to lower testosterone in the chronic alcoholics is when they dont eat or eat enough. Have you tested your testosteron on a binge? And when your on a binge is it couple of beers a day or is it a bottle of jack daniels type of even more? I dont doubt that you can recover from having 100 in test during a binge and getting back to 500 after once you slow down the drinking and start eating and living more healthy. This can be implied to anything like PUFA or serotonin. People can do mdma and have normal T. People can be vegan and eat lots of vegetable oils and still have normal T and be healthy. Some people are just fat and sick. Why we can only guess.

    PS i totally meant alcohol during the right conditions isnt as destructive as it might be portrayed. In the hands of the wrong person alcohol can obviously be extremely destructive to that person
     
  14. vulture

    vulture Member

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    I rarely drink, recently did with a hot girl, we had sex, I drank about a liter of beer. Next day my libido was amazing, along with morning wood, despite two sexual encounter the day before
     
  15. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    I wonder if it's just increased estrogen from the beer raising libido...
     
  16. vulture

    vulture Member

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    No idea, just a noticeable stronger erection and libido. Easier to get aroused
     
  17. Motif

    Motif Member

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    Interesting topic.

    My skin issues began about a year after I was heavy drinking on weekends. I kept doing this for almost ten more years, cause loved the feeling of being drunk, but my health issues made me stop alcohol 100%.
    Honestly I miss it. But I think I will never get healthy if I keep it up
     
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