Alcohol And Marijuana Through The Peat Prism

Discussion in 'Alcohol, Tobacco, Drugs' started by narouz, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. narouz

    narouz Member

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    The use of these intoxicants is pretty pervasive.
    How does Dr. Peat view their effects on energy, metabolism, and health?
    There does not seem to be a lot of information out there from Peat.
    Here are some of the few things I've gleaned:

    I found this quote from Dr. Peat on Danny Roddy's excellent page "Ray Peat's Brain""
    http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

    "It has some estrogenic effects that aren't desirable, though some of its effects can be helpful. It should never be smoked.

    "Small amounts of alcohol can have some good antioxidant effects, but beer, wine, and dark whiskey, etc., contain enough estrogen to be harmful. Cannabis is antiandrogenic or estrogenic, but it can be protective in some situations. Protein, thyroid, sugars, and saturated fats are protective against both.

    "People have very different reactions to it, probably depending on thyroid activity. It can have an antioxidant effect, but it can also cause hypoglycemia with pro-oxidative effects. If a person eats polyunsaturated fats, alcohol is more likely to cause oxidative reactions between iron and the fats."

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    When I asked questions about marijuana on another site a while back, one poster answered that he had heard from someone who had a private consultation with Dr. Peat, and Peat reportedly said that marijuana had an estrogenic effect.

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    The quote from above, about marijuana, that "It should never be smoked"...that is very interesting.
    I wonder why?
    Is it implied that ingesting it some other way than smoking would be okay or at least better?

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    Somewhere else I've read Dr. Peat refer to a study showing that alcohol does not cause liver cirrhosis in the presence of beef fat.
    Elsewhere, relatedly, I believe I've read or heard him say that alcohol does not cause liver cirrhosis when PUFA is not present. I think I've read that. Not certain.
     
  2. stevensmith

    stevensmith Member

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    I would probably assume that it does have an estrogenic effect and as a result, probably shouldn't be consumed. There really isn't any reason to eat or consume any leaves other than for transient benefits. All of the benefits of leaves, including their rich protein content, can be enjoyed by consuming ruminent animals, like beef, bison, lamb, etc, which ferment the leaves, and process them so that we can consume their protein. And none of the negative effects are had when leaves are omitted in the diet.
     
  3. cliff

    cliff Member

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    Smoke is estrogenic. I think getting high creates a stress response and surge of adrenaline, I've recently quit smoking marijuana pretty much all together for this reason.

    If you do it using a vaporizer or ingesting it orally is probably your best bet.
     
  4. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    from Fats and Degeneration—Dr. Ray Peat

     
  5. Combie

    Combie Member

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    I asked Ray about quitting smoking cannabis, heres what he said:



    Q: I wondered if you had any advice for someone attempting to cease long term heavy cannabis/tobacco use?


    A: At first, shifting to using them in the form of a tea, eliminating the smoke toxicity. Then, using pregnenolone, progesterone, thyroid, niacinamide, aspirin, and a diet emphasizing milk, cheese, and fruit.
     
  6. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    He talks about the tea in one of his interviews with the herb docs. It was clear he recommended the tea and not smoking the leaves.
     
  7. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    I'd like to hear a detailed discussion by Dr. Peat.
    These statements so far are something,
    which is better than nothing.
    But I'd like to know how Peat views marijuana as a drug:
    is it okay if not used too heavily
    or
    is it really terrible for you for reasons he hasn't elaborated.
    Maybe it is very anti-metabolic?
    Peat apparently says it is estrogenic,
    but, if so, on what scale?
    Alcohol, same story.

    These are two of the most widely used intoxicants
    and we really have scant discussion from Dr. Peat.
     
  8. Combie

    Combie Member

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    I was hoping to get some info related to the endocannabinoid system from Ray, and how to normalise it (abstinence is obvious, but how to make the process easier/quicker?) after years of heavy cannabis use. Ive read that cannabis cessation can take up to 8-10 months for you to truly be free of it. I can relate to this. Ive never managed more than 4 months, so i would estimate that my body has had the burden of cannabis since i was about 14 years old (im 34). The periods of abstinence are marked by boredom, moodiness, listlessness, which inevitably leads to relapse. I actually feel far better when i smoke really heavily. I feel like im in a dead end alleyway. General unhappiness at the open end, and cannabis abuse at the other. I just need to get through unhappiness, and break out of the alleyway altogether. But its hard. Anyone who says cannabis isnt addictive has never tried to stop. The tea thing isnt really cost effective for me, going to try dissolving the THC in coconut oil and tapering off.
     
  9. Combie

    Combie Member

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    Just to add to that. Since religiously taking pregnenolone and thyroid, my desire to smoke has evaporated. Even to the point of turning a joint down when offered. Thats amazing to me, because unless i was in a period of enforced abstinence, when i refused through gritted teeth, i have never ever turned a smoke down. I wrote that post 5 weeks ago and it seems like a different person wrote it.

    I would dearly love to understand the mechanism behind this.
     
  10. kiran

    kiran Member

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    Cigarettes stimulate the thyroid, if you have "sub-clinical hypothyroidism", nicotine is also a stimulant. You were probably self-medicating with cigarettes, and no longer feel the need for it.

    "Among patients with subclinical hypothyroidism, those who smoke have higher serum thyrotropin concentrations, a higher serum ratio of tri-iodothyronine to free thyroxine..."

    http://eje-online.org/content/138/4/368.long
     
  11. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    "...my desire to smoke has evaporated."

    Combie: are you talking cigarettes or pot?
     
  12. gretchen

    gretchen Member

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    I've never been interested in pot; not sure why, it just doesn't appeal to me for some reason. I drank a fair amount of wine beginning with all the perimenopause stuff in my late 30s, but now have dropped that also.
     
  13. Combie

    Combie Member

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    Was taking both, now neither.
     
  14. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Well then--Dayum!--that is a major achievement, right?!
     
  15. Combie

    Combie Member

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    It's scarily awesome!! I've never had trouble kicking tobacco, a few days on l tyrosine and its over, but cannabis has been the bane of my life.
     
  16. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Combie, congratulations! That is awesome news.

    Another win for the Peat club!
     
  17. chris

    chris Member

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    I never reacted to cannabis for some reason, I didn't realise why people did it as I got no reaction, one night I just went for it to see if I could feel how others felt and took so much started tripping balls. Not touched it since. Other than hallucinating and anxiety I didn't feel anything off it, strange.
     
  18. chris

    chris Member

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    I also got no reaction from another party drug, why do I not react to anything lol
     
  19. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    That's just amazing. Very encouraging to hear things like this.
     
  20. Combie

    Combie Member

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    Cannabis has cost me a great deal, not only in terms of money (i shudder to think how much OJ and pregnenolone i could have bought with what i have spent over the years), but also time, my mental health, my education (short term memory loss is wack when youre trying to read a book on metabolic regulation!), and a 12 year relationship. I dont feel too bad about the relationship though, in hindsight that was the most toxic thing in my life. Im not saying this is it, never again, done that too many times. But ive never felt more confident that im free of it.

    Its really hard to get your head round it when you know that its exacerbating your anxiety, but you are more anxious if you have none. Vicious circle or what? The funny thing is, ive had pregnenolone and thiroyd in my supp cupboard , where i also kept my pot, for about 18 months, the cure was staring me in the face everytime i reached for my poision.

    I get really mad when i hear stoners extolling its virtues. It has been a cross to bear for certainly my entire adult life. There may be medical applications, but i always died a little bit when i saw young healthy Californian guys on TV talking about "medicating" with a wry smile on their face. They just dont have any idea what damage this stuff can do. Its because the damage is insidious, not obvious like with booze or heroin say, that its regarded as "harmless". And anyone who thinks smoking anything could possibly be healthy would have serious cognitive dissonance if they werent so high.


    I just wish i could sleep properly....
     
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