A Peat Diet Will Not Save You From Alcohol Consumption

Drareg

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Good points :
1) The thing is that if you're surrounded by people who drink more than a couple of beers and you don't, the social interactions, the energy of the situation, it's different. You're like a stranger. It's not fun to be there. Plus you see with sober eyes all the stupidity of alcohol consumption. No. Either you drink a couple of drinks or you don't go there.

2) Yes. It says something about the people I'm with. Of course. I have rarely found any people who doesn't drink any ammount of alcohol.

3) Yes but maybe alcohol de-inhibites them if they are rigid personalities and can have more pleasant sex ?

But shouldn't a beautiful attractive partner relative to your perceptions de-inhibit you, the partner becomes the environment and it unfolds into you?
The alcohol is changing perceptions ,lowering perceptibly to be fair, beer googles etc.
 

Makrosky

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Can't you just base your social activities on something that doesn't involve drinking? Plenty of people play sports on weekends, make art together, etc..
James,

I don't have any problem with people drinking. I drink because I want not because of peer presure. I'm not complaining of people drinking too much. I was just relating my experience when I voluntarily decided to stop drinking for 6-8 months because I had (or think I had) a liver problem. It was a nightmare for the reasons I mentioned.

It is VERY rare to find people of my age range in this city who do not drink. It's everywhere. There's no single social situation where there's no alcohol. Art ? Artists ? Are you joking ? They are the least sober people around :) People who play sports go later to the bar to have some beers. Normally people who do not drink here is not because they reckon some psycho/physiological harm in alcohol per se. It's people who would call the police if you would tell them they can take LSD instead. They don't drink because they have a puritan mind or afraid of themselves or a prejudice against anything that the establishment has labeled as a "drug". I don't want to be around that people. The only exception to all this would be people engaged in spiritual practices or yoga or stuff like that. But even those, I've met many who drink. :):

I live in Spain, not in USA. I think it's very different.

Anyway, alcohol is one of the worst drugs possible. I don't understand why humans like it so much. It clogs your consciousness. Make you do stupid and irrational things. It takes the worst out of you. It numbs you. It's basically ***t. Although it's fun and it tastes good. There are many other drugs that open up the heart, the consciousness, make you see and feel clearer... but... it's a lost battle because people would ingest some LSD and then immediately chase it with 4 long drinks.
 
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Makrosky

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But shouldn't a beautiful attractive partner relative to your perceptions de-inhibit you, the partner becomes the environment and it unfolds into you?
The alcohol is changing perceptions ,lowering perceptibly to be fair, beer googles etc.
Yeah, there's truth on that. But to each it's own. I do it sometimes and it's funny. The problem would be if you NEED to drink to like sex with your partner. I guess.
 

James_001

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James,

I don't have any problem with people drinking. I drink because I want not because of peer presure. I'm not complaining of people drinking too much. I was just relating my experience when I voluntarily decided to stop drinking for 6-8 months because I had (or think I had) a liver problem. It was a nightmare for the reasons I mentioned.

It is VERY rare to find people of my age range in this city who do not drink. It's everywhere. There's no single social situation where there's no alcohol. Art ? Artists ? Are you joking ? They are the least sober people around :) People who play sports go later to the bar to have some beers. Normally people who do not drink here is not because they reckon some psycho/physiological harm in alcohol per se. It's people who would call the police if you would tell them they can take LSD instead. They don't drink because they have a puritan mind or afraid of themselves or a prejudice against anything that the establishment has labeled as a "drug". I don't want to be around that people. The only exception to all this would be people engaged in spiritual practices or yoga or stuff like that. But even those, I've met many who drink. :)

I live in Spain, not in USA. I think it's very different.

Anyway, alcohol is one of the worst drugs possible. I don't understand why humans like it so much. It clogs your consciousness. Make you do stupid and irrational things. It takes the worst out of you. It numbs you. It's basically ***t. Although it's fun and it tastes good. There are many other drugs that open up the heart, the consciousness, make you see and feel clearer... but... it's a lost battle because people would ingest some LSD and then immediately chase it with 4 long drinks.

I see, yeah it might be different in Europe I don't know. I also think it is strange that people like drinking so much, It surely brings the worst out of people.
 

Drareg

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Yeah, there's truth on that. But to each it's own. I do it sometimes and it's funny. The problem would be if you NEED to drink to like sex with your partner. I guess.

I think sometimes it can be a very attractive couple but one is uptight about what sex should be, carries a rule book while sober but inherently wants to let go so uses alcohol,some religious cultures brought shame into certain sexual behaviour.
The art of sex should practiced sober with no inhibitions, you then question the art? Like people who put excrement in a tin and say it's art,it gets into a museum, some people believe urinating on another's head or putting pegs on nipples and the scrotum is sex.

Art is a craft that should have a practicality/use underlying it, sex is to reproduce,pleasure,bond and grow together? not bondage like tying someone up and whipping and torture of sorts,there is absolutely no practicality to this behaviour.

For example where is the practicality or art in a footfetish? Pointless.
 

Makrosky

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I think sometimes it can be a very attractive couple but one is uptight about what sex should be, carries a rule book while sober but inherently wants to let go so uses alcohol,some religious cultures brought shame into certain sexual behaviour.
The art of sex should practiced sober with no inhibitions, you then question the art? Like people who put excrement in a tin and say it's art,it gets into a museum, some people believe urinating on another's head or putting pegs on nipples and the scrotum is sex.

Art is a craft that should have a practicality/use underlying it, sex is to reproduce,pleasure,bond and grow together? not bondage like tying someone up and whipping and torture of sorts,there is absolutely no practicality to this behaviour.

For example where is the practicality or art in a footfetish? Pointless.

Yes my friend you're talking about a perfect situation. "How things should be". And of course is your culturally determined perception of what an "ideal scenario" should be. Many people can't or don't want to do that, that's why they use alcohol. And by the way, sex practices are cultural and I think the fetishist practices you mention are in the roots of our culture. Look at the crucifiction and all those religious images.

Anyway, we've moved far away from the thread topic.... ;-)
 

Jayfish

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@natedawggh, you sound just a little insane in that rant above. You are definitely a person who swaps one addiction for another, alcohol for abstinence and AA for example.

Good luck with that.
 

Tarmander

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There is definitely a "social" aspect in drinking. When I quit, I slowly over a couple years lost all contact with my high school friends and social group that I had been hanging with for over a decade. All they did was go to bars, and when I would go it was awkward and they just stopped inviting me. Half of my family are big drinkers. When I quit drinking I could actually see the hurt in some of their faces. When I spend time with them now, it is okay for the first couple drinks, but goes down hill fast after that. They do not really realize that what they are talking about and find funny or interesting really isn't:

"Wow it is SO windy out here, does everyone else feel that? Has anyone else felt this much wind in a long time??"

"Ugh I hate that! I just want to go to the grocery store and shop, not be bombarded by magazine ads. Oh did you see at the store that new display??"

"I totally get that, it's like who wants to go through that just to get their oil changed."

I "ugh" myself in those situations.
 

Makrosky

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There is definitely a "social" aspect in drinking. When I quit, I slowly over a couple years lost all contact with my high school friends and social group that I had been hanging with for over a decade. All they did was go to bars, and when I would go it was awkward and they just stopped inviting me. Half of my family are big drinkers. When I quit drinking I could actually see the hurt in some of their faces. When I spend time with them now, it is okay for the first couple drinks, but goes down hill fast after that. They do not really realize that what they are talking about and find funny or interesting really isn't:

"Wow it is SO windy out here, does everyone else feel that? Has anyone else felt this much wind in a long time??"

"Ugh I hate that! I just want to go to the grocery store and shop, not be bombarded by magazine ads. Oh did you see at the store that new display??"

"I totally get that, it's like who wants to go through that just to get their oil changed."

I "ugh" myself in those situations.
I know exactly what you're talking about. And that's why I think that losing contact with all your high school friends and social group and having a bad feeling with family can be muuuuch more detrimental for health than a few drinks.
 

Lecarpetron

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I know exactly what you're talking about. And that's why I think that losing contact with all your high school friends and social group and having a bad feeling with family can be muuuuch more detrimental for health than a few drinks.

Tough one...yes, stressful to lose touch with your social group. But do you constantly want to cave in, imbibe, and then end up a willing participant in the mindless chatter described by Tarmander? That's how I feel when I have a drink or two, and usually end up regretting it.

Despite the social strain and discomfort, developing interests/conversational skills that transcend the alcohol at gatherings could serve as a fulfilling personal challenge. Much easier said than done though, I certainly felt friends slipping away and things getting awkward when I merely cut back.
 

Simonsays

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Alot of the recent comments i can relate to. Age and has a lot to do with it.

At 25, i stopped drinking for a while, it was really painful, it helped with anxiety , relaxed me, everything. It was accepted part of culture.
My social group all drank and i definitely wanted to continue and was constantly barraged with " why have you stopped , go on, have one". I felt an outsider, wanting to fit in.

At 50, i met up with some friends havent seen for a long time, in the pub, said i wasnt drinking , nothing said and i didnt need it as a relaxant , anxiety etc and enjoyed the evening.

But i also have friends who are heavy drinkers/alcoholics, i just decline the evening. Not drinking is not an option, it is why they are meeting up.
 

Tarmander

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I know exactly what you're talking about. And that's why I think that losing contact with all your high school friends and social group and having a bad feeling with family can be muuuuch more detrimental for health than a few drinks.

It definitely was not a decision I made in a day. I had to be honest with myself on why I was drinking, and it was almost entirely to stay close to my family and my friends. I had been drinking for almost ten years and it really wasn't enjoyable to me other then those reasons. So I quit and found friends and people who didn't drink and it's worked out great. The excuse that it is social really doesn't carry much weight with me. I mean maybe if you live in a town with 200 people, and you'd become a pariah then by all means drink. But if you live in a city...there are countless non drinking things you can do and they are way better.
 

whodathunkit

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It definitely was not a decision I made in a day. I had to be honest with myself on why I was drinking, and it was almost entirely to stay close to my family and my friends. I had been drinking for almost ten years and it really wasn't enjoyable to me other then those reasons.
This.

You can psych yourself out of drinking but it's a battle at first. Self-honesty and unrelenting vigilance when the urge to fall back into old habits strikes, are the key. I quit by deliberately recalling every negative thing I could about myself when I drank, every single time I got the urge. I relived the negatives in all their gory, vivid detail, right down to the bodily sensations and self-revulsion. Negatives recalled included (but were not limited to) stupid stuff I regretted doing or saying when drinking in the past; sleeping with people I didn't really care for (which also falls under stupid stuff); money spent on alcohol that could have been spent on something tangible and valuable even if still frivolous, like jewelry; the horrible spinning bed (or couch or floor) when laying down after drinking way too much; the damage I was doing to my internal organs and nervous system; and the hangover I was inevitably going to have if I gave in to the urge to drink. If you can kind of do a NLP thing on yourself with those types of negatives every time you want to drink, you can quit fairly quickly. Consistency is the key.

I was a problem drinker, too. Caused me a lot of grief in my life. Ruined relationships, three wrecked cars, two DUI's. Nobody hurt, including my dumb a--, thank the Gods. I was told by two state-appointed alcohol counselors that I would never be able to have another drink again, I was an unreformable alcoholic. I said what I had to say to get out of their programs fast, without actually changing anything about myself or my behavior. The similarly-minded cult of AA never did me any good either, although I don't condemn it because some people need that extreme structure. Like most religions it does a lot of good, even if some ego-driven practitioners corrupt it to suit their own purposes.

The thing that turned me off most about AA was the rigid insistence that someone who drinks enough to land them in AA can never really be healthy or normal. AA asserts that we will always have to be scared of and tiptoe around the Demon Alcohol, because it's always going to be more powerful than we are. I always hated that notion, and now I know it's complete bunk.

Something like alcohol, that can be one of life's pleasures, is just like everything else that is a pleasure but can also damage: it requires moderation. I can have a couple of drinks now, and quit. No desire to overdrink. I even over-indulged at a wedding back in March and apparently my liver has recovered to an astonishing degree: no hangover at all. I have no desire to do that again any time soon, but it's nice to know I can occasionally if I choose.

I'm unclear as to what Peat says about alcohol or drug addictions, but probably that it's serotonin-driven. I loved alcohol (and dope, and coke, and LSD, etc.) from the git-go because it took me out of the chronic dysthymia and anxiety that I'd experienced pretty much every day of my life up until that point. When I drank (or smoked or tooted or whatever) it made me "not me". At the time, all I wanted was to be "not me". If you're still in that "not me" place, you're going to have a hard time not drinking to excess. That's just the way it is.

To get back to the point of the thread: I agree, a Peat diet won't save you from alcohol consumption. But unscrambling your neurotransmitters with deliberate good health can go a long way towards getting rid of the urge to drink. I quit the hard way, and I've come to believe that if you have healthy biochemistry alcohol just doesn't attach you in the same way. When I overindulged in March it didn't even feel the same way it used to. The high was different. I'll always wonder how much different my life would have been if I had been this healthy when I took my first drink of alcohol. So much would have been different, I'm sure.
 

thegiantess

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Yes. I am not under the delusion that there is anything moral about alcohol as a substance. It's just a bunch of molecules like everything else we put into our bodies. Some of the people who react ardently here are reacting from their own biases, for or against, when really the helpful contribution is one which focuses on chemistry.

The sun may in excess damage us, but we cannot live without it or would die in darkness. Alcohol serves no necessary biological role for humans. Even in healthy individuals it causes damage in small amounts, in the presence of iron and polyunsaturated fats. A person can live (and live well) without ever consuming it. Ingestion is a calculated risk, not a biological necessity.

My OP pointed out that people searching for solutions to their health problems will not experience an increase in health if they also drink alcohol, because the properties of alcohol make it more destructive than other therapies are constructive. Without addressing anything about chemistry people bafflingly felt the need to orate on morals and the history of human civilization. When you're an alcoholic your health is at such a point that alcohol serves a purpose, to temporarily relieve you of some very severe suffering, and the prospect of having it taken away is extremely threatening. What I didn't know is that there is a solution that can replace alcohol use in a sick individual that is both pleasant and rewarding. For me it was getting sober with the help of AA and having a ray peat inspired diet to fix the underlying nutritional and physiological deficits. Give me the choice between what I have today and what I had back then, and every time I would chose being sober and healthy, though if you'd asked me back then I'm not sure which answer I'd have given.


Understood. I do find this thread fascinating. It seems that many folks have strong opinions about the sauce. Congrats on your recovery and hi five for your willingness to give up something that you identified as a crutch.
 

Jayfish

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Anyone on here who improved their health while drinking alcohol?

I didn't drink a lot but yes I drastically improved my health while drinking maybe a six pack a week. Wasn't always beer, sometimes cider or gin.
 

Hugh Johnson

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To be fair this was a threat long before 2005, Islam has always had radical factions just like many other religions,they are bastardised by power mad (pathological) humans, the difference with Islam is it has a huge population to pull from,if a mass amount Catholics got radical we would be in trouble with 1 billion to pull from.

There have been radical Muslims for centuries. So that argument is moot.

So, does anyone refute this statement: alcohol consumption produces negative physiological effects, but in certain situations and doses, produces social/psychological benefits.
That which is stated without proof can be dismissed without proof.

The only research in this thread is what I posted, showing clear benefits to drinking.
 

tara

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and everytime I was in a social situation I was so pissed off because everybody would ask why I don't drink and so on... very exhausting.
Yeah, it seems common for alcohol drinkers to want others to join them in it. Smokers sometimes try to get ex-smokers to join them to. And PUFA eating.

Or go to a fancy restaurant in a company meeting or with family of friends or whatever and don't drink wine with the dinner, instead order a pepsi. You'll see.

It is VERY rare to find people of my age range in this city who do not drink. It's everywhere. There's no single social situation where there's no alcohol.

These same points could be made about PUFA, no? But we mostly don't say that makes PUFA good in some contexts - wouldn't many of us be more likely to say it's sometimes a difficult/impossible-to-avoid harm?

They don't drink because they have a puritan mind or afraid of themselves or a prejudice against anything that the establishment has labeled as a "drug".
This is pretty judgemental.

The only exception to all this would be people engaged in spiritual practices or yoga or stuff like that. But even those, I've met many who drink. :)
If the yogis are pressuring you to drink, there is something off with their practice.

Anyway, alcohol ... It clogs your consciousness. Make you do stupid and irrational things. It takes the worst out of you. It numbs you. It's basically ***t. Although it's fun and it tastes good.
Nice summary. (Also damages metabolism.)


Congrats on your recovery and hi five for your willingness to give up something that you identified as a crutch.
+1

For culture to change, some people have to decide to do things differently than the current norm.
 
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You don't understand the huge dopamine aspect of alcohol, especially for someone who does it often.
 

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