10 Years Of Depression

[Kiwiii]

Hi !

Just to tell you my story, 1à years ago I was a student, a suddenly, one night as i was coming back home I had my first panic attack and went to the ER.

From this day, i had panic attacks everyday, became hypocondriac, saw my GP 3 times a week, and finally went to a psych.

He gave me Prozac, wich didnt work, Zoloft, didnt work, Paxeel, made me fat, and finally Effexor that i took at 75mg, for 9 years.

I still had some panic attacks, and phobias but it was manageable, i had a work, and was the best in my job.

I stopped Effexor las year, with the help of CBT i cured it.

And i took finasteride end January of this year. And guess what ? Everything came back but 10 times more potent.

It is 3 months now that i am on sick leave. I m back on Effexor 75 mg, but i doesnt really help.

I wake up every morning ******* anxious, and restless.

Here are my latest labs :

Total T : 276 ng/dl
Estradiol (ELISA assy) : 16 pg/ml (vs 19 last month) (22-50)
SHBG 21 (vs 18 last month) (18-54)
DHT : 1.44 nmol/l (vs 0.77 last month) (0.86-3.44)
FSH : 1.7 (vs 2) (2.1-18.6)
LH : 1 (vs 1.3) (1.7-11.2)
IGF1 : 260 vs 241 (94-246) Inhibine B : 351 pg/ml (80-325)
TSH : 0.573
Ft4 : 13.8 pg/ml (7-16)
Ft3 : 3.37 pg/ml (2-3.2)

I don't know what to do anymore, i have no more joy in life since february, and have suicidal toughts everyday.

Please help me.

 

[Insaneacinamide]

Sup buddy, hang in there.
Looks like you need to get the TotalT much higher. I've read about many people being depressed when it goes under 350ng. Though that is not the only cause of depression, it is one of them.
The high end of range is usually 1100. Many threads about diet/exercise/supplements/hormones/sleep that you can read to get ideas to improve bio markers like testosterone.
Many vitamins/minerals help, as well as hormones, avoiding pufa, weights, socializing, walking, sweating, you get the idea.
Track your food nutrients and see if you are needing to supplement.
Keep getting blood work if you can to track. Maybe add in a few more hormones to test like pregnenolone/dhea/progesterone, and vitamins/minerals.

 

[nasibi]

Hi !

Just to tell you my story, 1à years ago I was a student, a suddenly, one night as i was coming back home I had my first panic attack and went to the ER.

From this day, i had panic attacks everyday, became hypocondriac, saw my GP 3 times a week, and finally went to a psych.

He gave me Prozac, wich didnt work, Zoloft, didnt work, Paxeel, made me fat, and finally Effexor that i took at 75mg, for 9 years.

I still had some panic attacks, and phobias but it was manageable, i had a work, and was the best in my job.

I stopped Effexor las year, with the help of CBT i cured it.

And i took finasteride end January of this year. And guess what ? Everything came back but 10 times more potent.

It is 3 months now that i am on sick leave. I m back on Effexor 75 mg, but i doesnt really help.

I wake up every morning ******* anxious, and restless.

Here are my latest labs :

Total T : 276 ng/dl
Estradiol (ELISA assy) : 16 pg/ml (vs 19 last month) (22-50)
SHBG 21 (vs 18 last month) (18-54)
DHT : 1.44 nmol/l (vs 0.77 last month) (0.86-3.44)
FSH : 1.7 (vs 2) (2.1-18.6)
LH : 1 (vs 1.3) (1.7-11.2)
IGF1 : 260 vs 241 (94-246) Inhibine B : 351 pg/ml (80-325)
TSH : 0.573
Ft4 : 13.8 pg/ml (7-16)
Ft3 : 3.37 pg/ml (2-3.2)

I don't know what to do anymore, i have no more joy in life since february, and have suicidal toughts everyday.

Please help me.

You are hypogonadal dude. I would say get yourself some testosterone suspension or propinate. Do a single high dose injection of it around 250-300 mg of it inramuscular or sub q. If it resolves your symptoms, that is your solution: Start TRT. If it doesnt, no problem, a single injection of test suspension or propinate won't harm your already broken HPTA.

Moreover if the testosterone route didn't work, you can also try to raise your Allopregnanolone levels. That will definitely resolve your anxiety issues to say the least. It is a positive modulater of Gaba A receptors and finasteride depletes it. I would recommend the following protocol to raise Allopregnanolone levels:

5a-DHP (precurser to Allopregnanolone) 5-10 mg *3/day
Etifoxine (fabuolous for increasing Allo levels) 50 mg *3/day
Gelsemium sempervirens (same as Etifoxine) 3 or 5 cH *3/day
Glycine (stacks well with Gelsemium for Allo) 2-6 g *3/day
Picamilon (use only occasionaly along with this stack) 50-150 mg

Remember 5a-DHP is important, as finasteride has screwed your 5ar enzyme, which is necessary for the synthesis of this. Stop taking the Effexor, SSRIs long term also lower neurosteroid levels.

 

[Kiwiii]

Thanks a lot for this answer ! Where can i get 5aDHP in Europe ? @nasibi

 

[nasibi]

Thanks a lot for this answer ! Where can i get 5aDHP in Europe ? @nasibi

It is not available in Europe. You have to buy it from idealabs USA and get it delivered to France via UK through Skypax. You would spare yourself from the customs headache. Just ordered a few of the 5a-dhp today, should be here within 4-5 weeks. I will be doing the same protocol as soon as I have everything at hand. You are lucky to be living in France. I heared Etifoxine is available there over the counter.

 

[Kiwiii]

Not OTC, you need a RX.

I have etifoxine at home, but scared about liver damages it can cause.

 

[nasibi]

Not OTC, you need a RX.

I have etifoxine at home, but scared about liver damages it can cause.

Don't be scared homie. It is not highly liver toxic. People use highly liver toxic oral steroids for 4-5 weeks with absolutely no problems. You gotta have some courage man. But don't take it stand alone, as it won't be able to raise Allopregnanolone levels because you don't have enough 5a-dhp that is used as a substrate. Use it only in combination with the rest of the stack. Once again in your case supplementing 5a-dhp is very important.

You should definitely try the testosterone suspension/propinate too. Your testosterone levels are extremely low. That low of a testosterone can in of itself cause alot of problems and make you feel miserable. Get yourself some Test suspension or propinate and do one injection of around 300 mg. It will rapidly increase your serum testosterone levels and will most probably make you feel better. Nothing to fear, it just testosterone. Your body produces it naturally. It has also very short half life. Test suspension will be out of your system in the very same day. And the propinate in 3-5 days.

 

[Atman]

Hi !

Just to tell you my story, 1à years ago I was a student, a suddenly, one night as i was coming back home I had my first panic attack and went to the ER.

From this day, i had panic attacks everyday, became hypocondriac, saw my GP 3 times a week, and finally went to a psych.

He gave me Prozac, wich didnt work, Zoloft, didnt work, Paxeel, made me fat, and finally Effexor that i took at 75mg, for 9 years.

I still had some panic attacks, and phobias but it was manageable, i had a work, and was the best in my job.

I stopped Effexor las year, with the help of CBT i cured it.

And i took finasteride end January of this year. And guess what ? Everything came back but 10 times more potent.

It is 3 months now that i am on sick leave. I m back on Effexor 75 mg, but i doesnt really help.

I wake up every morning ******* anxious, and restless.

Here are my latest labs :

Total T : 276 ng/dl
Estradiol (ELISA assy) : 16 pg/ml (vs 19 last month) (22-50)
SHBG 21 (vs 18 last month) (18-54)
DHT : 1.44 nmol/l (vs 0.77 last month) (0.86-3.44)
FSH : 1.7 (vs 2) (2.1-18.6)
LH : 1 (vs 1.3) (1.7-11.2)
IGF1 : 260 vs 241 (94-246) Inhibine B : 351 pg/ml (80-325)
TSH : 0.573
Ft4 : 13.8 pg/ml (7-16)
Ft3 : 3.37 pg/ml (2-3.2)

I don't know what to do anymore, i have no more joy in life since february, and have suicidal toughts everyday.

Please help me.

Your labs would indicate a good thyroid function, but labs alone are not sufficient.

Tell us more about your life situation.
How many calories do you eat per day? What foods do you eat? What's your sleep pattern. Do you get enough sleep/ sunlight / physical activity / socialization? How old are you? How much do you weigh?
What supplements are you taking? Maybe try stopping all of them for 1 or 2 weeks?

There is some cause of your misery and it almost certainly lies within your lifestyle.
I would try to distance yourself from the idea that you can just search for the one particular magic substance you can swallow, that will flick the switch and bring you back.
Self reflect and think about what could be the problem.

 

[Kiwiii]

I'm eating enough only raw foods. I sleep at least 8 hours a night, i exercise 4 times a week.

I'm 30, my weight is 74kg for 180 cm.

I take Effexor 75 mg, lavender oil, tribulus.

 

[TeslaFan]

I'm eating enough only raw foods. I sleep at least 8 hours a night, i exercise 4 times a week.

I'm 30, my weight is 74kg for 180 cm.

I take Effexor 75 mg, lavender oil, tribulus.

Well, I mean, with so much serotonin recycling from Effexor it is no wonder your testosterone is low. You prolactin is probably elevated, too, as Serotonin releases prolactin by stimulating the release of PRF. The increase in prolactin leads to a decrease in testosterone production in the Leydig cells of the testes.

As Ray Peat said: "Neither excessive estrogen nor excessive serotonin can be regulated adequately without taking both systems into account."

 

[Kiwiii]

Nope prolactin is in range !

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

I'm eating enough only raw foods. I sleep at least 8 hours a night, i exercise 4 times a week.

Try implementing some cooked foods.

Try consuming more protein and more sugar.

Alter your exercise routine or the environment each workout.

Wean off the pills.

 

[tara]

Hang in there.
If you are in danger, please seek local face to face support - life line or whatever local support is available if you need to.

There is a very high likelihood that you will be able to find ways to improve your situation.

I'm eating enough only raw foods.

I think some people can thrive on this, but I don't know if everyone can, and ATM it seems you are not.
Have you had a go at running a typical/average day's food through cronometer or similar, and recording roughly what nutrition you are likely to be getting from your food? It won't be precise, because the nutrients in a particular food can vary a lot depending on soil health and growing conditions etc, but a rough estimate's better than nothing.
What sort of raw food are you eating ... fruit, leaves, milk, dairy, meat ...?
Peat tends to recommend 80-100g protein for people with low metabolism (some people can use more than this).
Typical calories for a mature man are roughly 3000 (this is from Olwyn of the ED Institute, not Peat, though I suspect he would agree).
Take a look at calcium, magnesium, and other minerals, and vitamins, and see if there are any obvious gaps. Depending on whether you have been restricting particular foods, you could have some nutrient deficiencies undermining your health and energy.

The lab tests give some relevant data, but you can monitor your own body, too. Have you had a go at monitoring your body temps? (It typically takes 5-10 mins for thermometer to stabilise to body temperature, so give it time.)

How's your breathing at rest? Relaxed, small, diaghragmatic, nasal? Or large, stressed, mouth, chest? Panic attacks are often (I'm not sure if it's always) associated with hyperventilation, sometimes unaware. Breathing too much tends to lower CO2 levels. Adequate CO2 levels are necessary for all lots of processes. If you tend to sleeping with your mouth open at night, for instance, I'd put this high up the list of habits to change - possibly with mechanical support (tape or chin strap).

Are you getting regular sunshine? The body needs a good dose of the red end of the spectrum regularly to restore some key enzymes in the energy production apparatus - without enough, one can get SAD.

I think effexor/venlafaxine is sold as a SNRI. If you haven't read Peat on serotonin, you might be interested in these:
Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.
Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

I'm no expert, but it is possible that you could be getting some negative effects from the drug. Some people have used SSREs (enhancers rather than inhibitors) to good effect in depression. I imagine that stopping/changing drugs is not something to do lightly or quickly, but you might want to read up on the pros and cons and consider this as one aspect of your situation.


Good luck. Don't despair if the next few things you try don't instantly solve everything - long term issues can sometimes take a while to unravel even once you get onto a helpful path, but the odds are good that you can get to a better place.

 

[Kiwiii]

I will ask for tianeptine

 

[TeslaFan]

Nope prolactin is in range !

It should be 4 to 7 ng/mL for healthy men, according to Ray. The range usually goes up to 15 ng/mL

 

[Kiwiii]

yes it is in this range.

Just started Andriol 80-0-80 for my low T. No effect so far

 

[Kiwiii]

Took 5mg 5aDHP. Quite sedating, but still emotionnal pain.

 

[Kiwiii]

What to do when you are feeling hopeless ?

 

[nasibi]

What to do when you are feeling hopeless ?

I have been in your shoes. I know that feeling of hopelessness. What I did was I thought logically about it. I said to myself, well let's be honest here but also be logical about it. I do feel hopless and that it is never going to get better. But i don't really for sure know. It is just how i feel. Only time will tell if i will get better or not. So i wrote to myself a note:

"Speculations does not equal facts."

And with that note i promised to myself to accept that reality. I can speculate anything of wether i am going to get well or not. But only time will reveal the facts. Hope that helps.

 

[Kiwiii]

And How did you recover ?