Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Amazoniac]

More than 300 pages and there's still a discussion if it's a toxin or not, I thought that there was no doubt at this point that it is.

Someone posted this channel a while ago:
- Life After Accutane

Are you guys in touch with any of them? I know that Ido was registered on Grant's forum because I came across his thread on a visit. If I remember it right, he found Chris Kresser's blog in a short time after beginning to search for answers, which is a blessing if that's the starting place, but it would be nice if you could invite them here because there's a lot for them to learn from Raj and some of his mentees' work beyond dietary toxins.

Could it be that since vitamin A is necessary for steroidogenesis and since the vast majority of people with health issues are producing too much estrogen relative to progesterone then eliminating vitamin A forcefully halts estrogen production and that is what is causing the benefits? The ideal is to have high progesterone and low estrogen but low progesterone and low estrogen via vitamin A restriction is better than low progesterone and high estrogen.

- Anti-Peat - Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

You reminded me of something unrelated..
- Anti-Peat - Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

They estimated below that about 60% of a 30 mg dose of Diokine-tocoinphernal is absorbed. Whenever tolerated, it's preferable to ingest it because it will support the metabolism of carotenes by escorting them whether they're uptaken or not. As always, there's no need to take it all at once.
- TocoVit - Liquid Vitamin E From Wheat Germ Oil


Developed tolerance to coffee can be when the body starts to conserve poisons afraid that it's going to become too pure in the future, at this stage we can expect bile to be less contaminated and won't fuel inflammation when discharge is stimulated further by cofffee.

- Major duodenal papilla - Wikipedia
- Anatomy and Physiology of the Duodenum

Spoiler

- Peptic Ulcer Disease: Descriptive Epidemiology, Risk Factors, Management and Prevention

Spoiler

Excess poisonoids not only tend to thin tissues but also dry out the mucus barrier. I wouldn't discard issues at the upper gut because small changes up of the stream can affect everything else in caspase. For someone that took a course of isotretinoid, it's possible that it sensitized the region as well. Yet, bacteria can revert glucuronididziation and set poisons free farther down the intestines. Raj wrote that injury signals proliferation, however this needs termination, and poisonoids (being executioners) are good at it; various places can be compromised and it's understandable if it attracts poisons to it.

 

[Louise]

Here is another video from the doc some of you love, some of you hate and some of you love to hate.

 

[Waynish]

You're likely starting to see the irreducible complexity here. How can a molecule be a "bad molecule?" The clearest example here is PUFA being unstable - so that is a general context where PUFA can have consistently destabilizing effects. Then the contexts where other molecules have degenerate actions are mostly case-by-case.

 

[Waynish]

It seems the "vitamin D is rat poison" is somewhat coupled with these ideas about Vitamin A issues. Any other proposals for misclassified nutrients?

 

[Louise]

It seems the "vitamin D is rat poison" is somewhat coupled with these ideas about Vitamin A issues. Any other proposals for misclassified nutrients?

He thinks vitamin D is a legit nutrient just not through the mouth. I think his thought process on that is that sinee it is a fat soluable hormone that one can get into trouble when bypassing the body's regulation of it.

 

[Waynish]

He thinks vitamin D is a legit nutrient just not through the mouth. I think his thought process on that is that sinee it is a fat soluable hormone that one can get into trouble when bypassing the body's regulation of it.

So he's joking when he's making the rat poison reference in his videos? I can't think of any other human hormone or vitamin that is used as industrial strength animal poison - can you?

 

[Louise]

So he's joking when he's making the rat poison reference in his videos? I can't think of any other human hormone or vitamin that is used as industrial strength animal poison - can you?

He isn't making a joke. He is very against vitamin D supplements and uses the rat poison example to warn people.

 

[thomas200]

minor update, post vitamin A diet (zero A)

idk how much I get a day, probably around 20-50%, but there is bloating that i didnt even realize I had that went away! My cheekbones are much more visible. Is it the vitamin A that went from my blood stream back to my liver?

Makes me kind of anxious because I feel like i could take the bloating away for good if I stayed for a little more

 

[thomas200]

Good to hear, hoping it sticks @thomas200 Are you planning to use high VA foods as staples? liver, eggs, fortified dairy, etc...

I am over 14 months low VA and continue to slowly transition to better health, looking forward to testing this as well, but will probably wait until 24 months is up.

Yes now I drink almond milk, and a few eggs daily. I've never tried liver

Glad to hear about your progress, happy healing!

 

[md_a]

https://iheal.me/en/vitamin-a-for-we-have-sinned/
https://iheal.me/en/understanding-vitamin-a/

 

[Waynish]

https://iheal.me/en/vitamin-a-for-we-have-sinned/
https://iheal.me/en/understanding-vitamin-a/

I couldn't keep reading... The author has such an unclear and disorganized mental process. Does she ever get around to demonstrating actual science (making someone Vitamin A deficient, it hurting them, then adding Vitamin A back and it fixing them)? Also, do you know this "Anika" personally?

 

[schultz]

Vitamin A causes inflammation and intestinal permeability but I don't know if that's intrinsic or if that requires that some other conditions to be met first.

The studies I've seen suggest that it prevents intestinal permeability and strengthens the gut. Did you read studies saying the opposite?

 

[postman]

vitamin a makes me very angry

The studies I've seen suggest that it prevents intestinal permeability and strengthens the gut. Did you read studies saying the opposite?

no. i guess i dont really know how it affects permeability. that was a stupid thing for me to say. all i know is that high VA foods and supplements give me very bad stomach pains and diarrhea for days

 

[Waynish]

vitamin a makes me very angry


no. i guess i dont really know how it affects permeability. that was a stupid thing for me to say. all i know is that high VA foods and supplements give me very bad stomach pains and diarrhea for days

Have you tested it with pure retinol?

 

[Blossom]

Grant is slated to speak at The Boulder Carnivore Convention this May along with Brad Marshall the Fire in a Bottle guy.

 

[Abcdefgmo]

I think it's because Vitamin A is strongly anti-estrogenic and people are wrong about estrogen

 

[tim333]

Greetings everyone,

I'm "tim-2" from Grant Genereux's forum.

I've been following a low VA diet for 12 months now.

This is what I eat most days now:

Breakfast: Granola with almond milk and banana.

Lunch: Battered fish, potato, leek, cabbage and mushrooms.

Dinner: Chicken and baked beans with most of the tomato sauce drained out.

I eat about 3 hard boiled eggs per week.

At first I went really low VA but I have since realized that it's a marathon not a sprint to reduce VA levels in the body and I've also seen science showing that the body works hard to conserve VA when we go really low. So I have a small amount of VA from leeks, a tiny bit of tomato, fish and chicken.

I had my serum retinol levels tested recently and it's 1.8 umol/L which is 50.4 ug/dL. My cholesterol and liver enzymes have normalized compared with a test I had 3 years ago.

I've seen a huge change in my seb derm over the past year. It is 95% better, almost completely gone. I've suffered with it on my scalp, face and chest for many years. I had to use 6% H2O2 on my body every few days to control it! Now I hardly ever have to use the hydrogen peroxide. The current theory for seb derm makes no sense because it doesn't cover all oily areas, it happens in patches. Maybe the RA is coming out in those patches and is creating dead skin cells which the yeast feeds on that causes seb derm. Riboflavin deficiency is likely a key player as well, seb derm is connected to riboflavin deficiency. I posted on Grant's forum showing evidence that over 70% of people are riboflavin deficient! And guess what? Riboflavin is needed to convert retinol to retinoic acid and then to convert retinoic acid to water soluble retinoids that get excreted in the urine! So VA toxicity is depleting people's riboflavin levels. I posted the relevant studies on Grant's forum about this: Riboflavin's role in an important VA detox pathway

I'm a WAPF survivor, the WAPF diet caused me a lot of damage. I took CLO, FCLO, ate liver and copious amounts of dairy fat.

Here is my take on the VA toxicity situation:

VA is an essential vitamin needed for vision and for RA which is a hormone used by the body. VA issues are simply a matter of too much VA in our diet and possibly chemicals, nutrient deficiencies and health conditions that slow down the elimination of it.

I believe that everyone that is dealing with VA toxicity should get serum retinol tested but also Vitamin D and then make sure they are Vit D sufficient as Vit A competes with Vit D in the body. VA also likely depletes K2, molybdenum and choline. It depletes riboflavin. Basically we need to supplement with some Vit D or get lots of sun. Sunlight breaks down carotenoids and retinoids into still toxic breakdown products that must be eliminated by the body.

We should follow a diet that is extremely rich in B vitamins. Legumes are essential as they are rich in molybdenum, thiamine and folate. Mushrooms are an excellent food as they are zero VA and zero pectin and are high in riboflavin. (As posted on the Grant Genereux forum pectin should be minimized as it breaks down into methanol in the gut. Fruit juice is a major source of pectin and should be avoided. Fruit, vegetables and legumes all contain pectin, we should avoid consuming an excess of these foods.) Squid is low VA and high in riboflavin too. Fish I consider essential as it contains DHA, iodine and selenium. I think a few eggs per week is a good idea for the choline and they also contain iodine, selenium and DHA as well.

What a blessing Grant's work has been to raise awareness of this issue. I am very thankful to Grant. However, I can't endorse his books as they are full of logical fallacies and I would question anyone's intelligence if they can't easily see that. Plants developed the ability to synthesize carotenoids billions of years ago as a form of sun protection. Animals developed the ability to convert them into retinoids and use them and they became essential. VAD is real and Grant will eventually get xeropthalmia, fortunately the onset is very slow so he will have time to replenish his VA reserves before permanent damage occurs. Grant denies that retinal is needed for vision which is just flat out denial of hard science.

I'm concerned about anyone getting pregnant or having children while following a very low VA diet longterm.

Mexicans consume about 1/5 of the RDA while Americans consume about 3x the RDA, Mexicans have far less autoimmune disease. I think about 1/3 of the RDA is a good figure to aim for long term although most of our VA toxicity issues have likely been caused by consuming VA far in excess of the RDA long term.

I would caution against following Garrett Smith's advice. He often gets things totally wrong. It's great that he is on board with the VA toxicity issue though.

Matt Stone, what a legend. He's the reason I heard about VA toxicity.

 

[Max23]

Greetings everyone,

I'm "tim-2" from Grant Genereux's forum.

I've been following a low VA diet for 12 months now.

This is what I eat most days now:

Breakfast: Granola with almond milk and banana.

Lunch: Battered fish, potato, leek, cabbage and mushrooms.

Dinner: Chicken and baked beans with most of the tomato sauce drained out.

I eat about 3 hard boiled eggs per week.

At first I went really low VA but I have since realized that it's a marathon not a sprint to reduce VA levels in the body and I've also seen science showing that the body works hard to conserve VA when we go really low. So I have a small amount of VA from leeks, a tiny bit of tomato, fish and chicken.

I had my serum retinol levels tested recently and it's 1.8 umol/L which is 50.4 ug/dL. My cholesterol and liver enzymes have normalized compared with a test I had 3 years ago.

I've seen a huge change in my seb derm over the past year. It is 95% better, almost completely gone. I've suffered with it on my scalp, face and chest for many years. I had to use 6% H2O2 on my body every few days to control it! Now I hardly ever have to use the hydrogen peroxide. The current theory for seb derm makes no sense because it doesn't cover all oily areas, it happens in patches. Maybe the RA is coming out in those patches and is creating dead skin cells which the yeast feeds on that causes seb derm. Riboflavin deficiency is likely a key player as well, seb derm is connected to riboflavin deficiency. I posted on Grant's forum showing evidence that over 70% of people are riboflavin deficient! And guess what? Riboflavin is needed to convert retinol to retinoic acid and then to convert retinoic acid to water soluble retinoids that get excreted in the urine! So VA toxicity is depleting people's riboflavin levels. I posted the relevant studies on Grant's forum about this: Riboflavin's role in an important VA detox pathway

I'm a WAPF survivor, the WAPF diet caused me a lot of damage. I took CLO, FCLO, ate liver and copious amounts of dairy fat.

Here is my take on the VA toxicity situation:

VA is an essential vitamin needed for vision and for RA which is a hormone used by the body. VA issues are simply a matter of too much VA in our diet and possibly chemicals, nutrient deficiencies and health conditions that slow down the elimination of it.

I believe that everyone that is dealing with VA toxicity should get serum retinol tested but also Vitamin D and then make sure they are Vit D sufficient as Vit A competes with Vit D in the body. VA also likely depletes K2, molybdenum and choline. It depletes riboflavin. Basically we need to supplement with some Vit D or get lots of sun. Sunlight breaks down carotenoids and retinoids into still toxic breakdown products that must be eliminated by the body.

We should follow a diet that is extremely rich in B vitamins. Legumes are essential as they are rich in molybdenum, thiamine and folate. Mushrooms are an excellent food as they are zero VA and zero pectin and are high in riboflavin. (As posted on the Grant Genereux forum pectin should be minimized as it breaks down into methanol in the gut. Fruit juice is a major source of pectin and should be avoided. Fruit, vegetables and legumes all contain pectin, we should avoid consuming an excess of these foods.) Squid is low VA and high in riboflavin too. Fish I consider essential as it contains DHA, iodine and selenium. I think a few eggs per week is a good idea for the choline and they also contain iodine, selenium and DHA as well.

What a blessing Grant's work has been to raise awareness of this issue. I am very thankful to Grant. However, I can't endorse his books as they are full of logical fallacies and I would question anyone's intelligence if they can't easily see that. Plants developed the ability to synthesize carotenoids billions of years ago as a form of sun protection. Animals developed the ability to convert them into retinoids and use them and they became essential. VAD is real and Grant will eventually get xeropthalmia, fortunately the onset is very slow so he will have time to replenish his VA reserves before permanent damage occurs. Grant denies that retinal is needed for vision which is just flat out denial of hard science.

I'm concerned about anyone getting pregnant or having children while following a very low VA diet longterm.

Mexicans consume about 1/5 of the RDA while Americans consume about 3x the RDA, Mexicans have far less autoimmune disease. I think about 1/3 of the RDA is a good figure to aim for long term although most of our VA toxicity issues have likely been caused by consuming VA far in excess of the RDA long term.

I would caution against following Garrett Smith's advice. He often gets things totally wrong. It's great that he is on board with the VA toxicity issue though.

Matt Stone, what a legend. He's the reason I heard about VA toxicity.

Great post! It has a lot of things I have thought myself. Researching vitamin A right now and have been on the diet for a few weeks.

 

[Max23]

And welcome to the forum!

 

[Blossom]

Greetings everyone,

I'm "tim-2" from Grant Genereux's forum.

I've been following a low VA diet for 12 months now.

This is what I eat most days now:

Breakfast: Granola with almond milk and banana.

Lunch: Battered fish, potato, leek, cabbage and mushrooms.

Dinner: Chicken and baked beans with most of the tomato sauce drained out.

I eat about 3 hard boiled eggs per week.

At first I went really low VA but I have since realized that it's a marathon not a sprint to reduce VA levels in the body and I've also seen science showing that the body works hard to conserve VA when we go really low. So I have a small amount of VA from leeks, a tiny bit of tomato, fish and chicken.

I had my serum retinol levels tested recently and it's 1.8 umol/L which is 50.4 ug/dL. My cholesterol and liver enzymes have normalized compared with a test I had 3 years ago.

I've seen a huge change in my seb derm over the past year. It is 95% better, almost completely gone. I've suffered with it on my scalp, face and chest for many years. I had to use 6% H2O2 on my body every few days to control it! Now I hardly ever have to use the hydrogen peroxide. The current theory for seb derm makes no sense because it doesn't cover all oily areas, it happens in patches. Maybe the RA is coming out in those patches and is creating dead skin cells which the yeast feeds on that causes seb derm. Riboflavin deficiency is likely a key player as well, seb derm is connected to riboflavin deficiency. I posted on Grant's forum showing evidence that over 70% of people are riboflavin deficient! And guess what? Riboflavin is needed to convert retinol to retinoic acid and then to convert retinoic acid to water soluble retinoids that get excreted in the urine! So VA toxicity is depleting people's riboflavin levels. I posted the relevant studies on Grant's forum about this: Riboflavin's role in an important VA detox pathway

I'm a WAPF survivor, the WAPF diet caused me a lot of damage. I took CLO, FCLO, ate liver and copious amounts of dairy fat.

Here is my take on the VA toxicity situation:

VA is an essential vitamin needed for vision and for RA which is a hormone used by the body. VA issues are simply a matter of too much VA in our diet and possibly chemicals, nutrient deficiencies and health conditions that slow down the elimination of it.

I believe that everyone that is dealing with VA toxicity should get serum retinol tested but also Vitamin D and then make sure they are Vit D sufficient as Vit A competes with Vit D in the body. VA also likely depletes K2, molybdenum and choline. It depletes riboflavin. Basically we need to supplement with some Vit D or get lots of sun. Sunlight breaks down carotenoids and retinoids into still toxic breakdown products that must be eliminated by the body.

We should follow a diet that is extremely rich in B vitamins. Legumes are essential as they are rich in molybdenum, thiamine and folate. Mushrooms are an excellent food as they are zero VA and zero pectin and are high in riboflavin. (As posted on the Grant Genereux forum pectin should be minimized as it breaks down into methanol in the gut. Fruit juice is a major source of pectin and should be avoided. Fruit, vegetables and legumes all contain pectin, we should avoid consuming an excess of these foods.) Squid is low VA and high in riboflavin too. Fish I consider essential as it contains DHA, iodine and selenium. I think a few eggs per week is a good idea for the choline and they also contain iodine, selenium and DHA as well.

What a blessing Grant's work has been to raise awareness of this issue. I am very thankful to Grant. However, I can't endorse his books as they are full of logical fallacies and I would question anyone's intelligence if they can't easily see that. Plants developed the ability to synthesize carotenoids billions of years ago as a form of sun protection. Animals developed the ability to convert them into retinoids and use them and they became essential. VAD is real and Grant will eventually get xeropthalmia, fortunately the onset is very slow so he will have time to replenish his VA reserves before permanent damage occurs. Grant denies that retinal is needed for vision which is just flat out denial of hard science.

I'm concerned about anyone getting pregnant or having children while following a very low VA diet longterm.

Mexicans consume about 1/5 of the RDA while Americans consume about 3x the RDA, Mexicans have far less autoimmune disease. I think about 1/3 of the RDA is a good figure to aim for long term although most of our VA toxicity issues have likely been caused by consuming VA far in excess of the RDA long term.

I would caution against following Garrett Smith's advice. He often gets things totally wrong. It's great that he is on board with the VA toxicity issue though.

Matt Stone, what a legend. He's the reason I heard about VA toxicity.

I agree completely. Nice summary.