Why Is There A Lot Of Fat In Baby Milk (half Sugar/fat) If It Exacerbates The Randle Cycle?

[Parsifal]

Same question as in the title. Some people in the Paleo/ketogenic sphere even say that there is 3/4 fat and 1/4 sugar, will try to find the articles again but I believe that nature should make the child have a high metabolism without Randle Cycle no?

 

[CoolTweetPete]

I would think the fat is needed for the formation of new cell membranes as the baby is rapidly growing (rapid cell replication). Just would be my guess.

 

[Brian]

post 114117 Same question as in the title. Some people in the Paleo/ketogenic sphere even say that there is 3/4 fat and 1/4 sugar, will try to find the articles again but I believe that nature should make the child have a high metabolism without Randle Cycle no?

Babies are obviously not at all in the same developmental stage as adults, but I think higher fat (30%+) calories can be great for somebody who lifts weights a few times per week and has a substantial amount of muscle. Maybe it has something to do with how anabolic your hormone balance is?

 

[tara]

When I went to breastfeeding class, we were told that humns have a lower proportion of fat in breastmilk than many mammals, especially the cache feeding animals that leave their young for longer periods while they go after food. Humans' relatively low milk fat proportion requires that babies not be left alone for long - best to keep them with you.

Babies need a lot of food and calories - they are growing and building fast. A bit more fat in the milk can make it last longer.

I was getting woken up for feeds quite often enough, sure wouldn't have wanted it to be more frequent (might have been better if I new then what I know now about my own nutritional needs, and eaten more). :)

 

[thegiantess]

Same question as in the title. Some people in the Paleo/ketogenic sphere even say that there is 3/4 fat and 1/4 sugar, will try to find the articles again but I believe that nature should make the child have a high metabolism without Randle Cycle no?

I'm not sure they're right. Formula is designed to mimic breast milk and formula typically has 2 grams protein, 5 grams fat and 10 grams carbs per like 4-5 oz. I have tasted both breast milk and formula and they are both quite sweet, similar to what skim milk with a bit of sugar would taste like.

 

[ecstatichamster]

the baby needs to store fat.

That's why.

 

[Giraffe]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_milk

"Human milk contains 0.8% to 0.9% protein, 4.5% fat, 7.1% carbohydrates, and 0.2% ash (minerals). Carbohydrates are mainly lactose; several lactose-based oligosaccharides have been identified as minor components."

 

[schultz]

According to wikipedia a cup of human milk has on average...

17g Carbohydrates
10.8g of Fat
2.5g of Protein

In terms of calories, human milk has more calories from fat than from carbohydrates.

@ecstatichamster I think has the right idea. Baby need to store a lot of fat up. @tara also has a good point about slowing absorption. Babies have an underdeveloped GI and may benefit from slowing down the absorption.

 

[lvysaur]

In terms of calories, human milk has more calories from fat than from carbohydrates.

Cow milk also has more calories from fat than from carbohydrates. Human milk has greater amounts of both fat and carb, but a much lower amount of protein.

Milk, whole, 3.25% milkfat Nutrition Facts & Calories

I find it interesting that babies have male pattern baldness while maintaining high lactase secretion. When I went through phases of very heavy hair loss, my lactose digestion (as gauged by mucus buildup) was the most intense and rapid.

 

[James IV]

Fats and carbs combined don't "exacerbate" the Randal cycle. Excess energy is the problem.

 

[Jayfish]

Saturated fat + sugar is about as optimal as it gets for energy production as long as the metabolism can handle it.

 

[Mittir]

At rest, we mostly burn fat and infants are almost always in resting
state, usually sleeping. A high fat milk is suitable for that purpose.

 

[lollipop]

Fats and carbs combined don't "exacerbate" the Randal cycle. Excess energy is the problem.

Hi @James IV interesting, could you elaborate more?

 

[jyb]

At rest, we mostly burn fat and infants are almost always in resting
state, usually sleeping. A high fat milk is suitable for that purpose.

Aren't adults also mostly in resting state? Except for those with a physically intensive occupation. On the contrary, kids run around a lot in school.

 

[Mittir]

Aren't adults also mostly in resting state? Except for those with a physically intensive occupation. On the contrary, kids run around a lot in school.

Baby milks are meant for infants, who sleeps 15-20 hours a day.
Kids in school do not solely rely on milk. RP mentioned young people
can burn fat more efficiently because of low PUFA storage. They are
low in anti-metabolic toxins like iron and other substances.
If one can maintain that kind of status then adult should have
similar ability to burn fat.

One of the main drawback of fat burning is low CO2 and
low carb- high fat can decrease active thyroid hormone.
Milk probably has enough carb to sustain T3 production.
Mother's milk contain thyroid hormone and RP once mentioned
of babies who were born without thyroid gland did not show
hypothyroidism when they were breastfed.
I suspect babies have breathing pattern that increase CO2.

I have noticed some successful low carber who uses
thyroid supplement. Since low carb lowers T3 one can
partially solve that problem by taking T3.

I think there is a big difference between sleep and awake state.
Waking requires certain stress hormones to be raised.
Brain is a major source of stress and babies live a very stress free life
compared to adult. I also think sleep deprivation in adult causes
a lot of stress related issues.

 

[schultz]

Adults are no longer growing. Wouldn't this cause some differences in terms of energy usage?

I imagine if we didn't have cars and other efficient transportation and had to walk a lot more that we could use more fat in our diet. Walking burns a high percentage of fat. It's an excellent energy source for survival. For the modern person who gets the majority of their walking going through the grocery store, maybe not so much.

 

[James IV]

Hi @James IV interesting, could you elaborate more?

Majority of health issues are likely caused by over nutrition. Digestion and assimilation are incredibly energy intensive, and inhibit the bodies natural
cellular "recycling" processes. The notion we need to constantly feed to maintain our energy/blood sugar/whatever, is hogwash. There is a reason we have such large livers, it's aN incredible fuel tank for maintaining proper energy ratios in the bloodstream. For metabolically healthy people, the liver and body fat can provide plenty of clean energy. We are (should be) perfectly capable of going many hours, even days, without food. If you need to constantly eat to maintain your energy levels, you are broken. If fat was harmful to our metabolism, it certainly wouldn't make sense to have it be our primary storage form of energy.

Humans (industrialized) eat more and move less than ever. If you are sedentary, you will not be at optimal health, regardless of your diet. As the old saying goes 1/3 of what you eat is for you, 2/3 is for your doctor.
People should likely be eating less often, not more. 3 meals a day is an invention of bored aristocrats. More than that an invention of supplement industry.
Your energy and clarity should be highest when you are in a fasted state. Feeding should be used to stimulate relaxation and repair.

 

[lollipop]

Majority of health issues are likely caused by over nutrition. Digestion and assimilation are incredibly energy intensive, and inhibit the bodies natural
cellular "recycling" processes. The notion we need to constantly feed to maintain our energy/blood sugar/whatever, is hogwash. There is a reason we have such large livers, it's aN incredible fuel tank for maintaining proper energy ratios in the bloodstream. For metabolically healthy people, the liver and body fat can provide plenty of clean energy. We are (should be) perfectly capable of going many hours, even days, without food. If you need to constantly eat to maintain your energy levels, you are broken. If fat was harmful to our metabolism, it certainly wouldn't make sense to have it be our primary storage form of energy.

Humans (industrialized) eat more and move less than ever. If you are sedentary, you will not be at optimal health, regardless of your diet. As the old saying goes 1/3 of what you eat is for you, 2/3 is for your doctor.
People should likely be eating less often, not more. 3 meals a day is an invention of bored aristocrats. More than that an invention of supplement industry.
Your energy and clarity should be highest when you are in a fasted state. Feeding should be used to stimulate relaxation and repair.

Makes sense @James IV - I often struggle to get three full meals and do not always want a full meal. Since starting Ray Peat style/theory of consumption coming off of VLC/Paleo, my liver struggled in the beginning until I healed it - needed to eat more often in the beginning. Then I felt my liver getting much better and could go longer in between meals with out any strain on my body. Thank you for taking the time to reply!

 

[InChristAlone]

Majority of health issues are likely caused by over nutrition. Digestion and assimilation are incredibly energy intensive, and inhibit the bodies natural
cellular "recycling" processes. The notion we need to constantly feed to maintain our energy/blood sugar/whatever, is hogwash. There is a reason we have such large livers, it's aN incredible fuel tank for maintaining proper energy ratios in the bloodstream. For metabolically healthy people, the liver and body fat can provide plenty of clean energy. We are (should be) perfectly capable of going many hours, even days, without food. If you need to constantly eat to maintain your energy levels, you are broken. If fat was harmful to our metabolism, it certainly wouldn't make sense to have it be our primary storage form of energy.

Humans (industrialized) eat more and move less than ever. If you are sedentary, you will not be at optimal health, regardless of your diet. As the old saying goes 1/3 of what you eat is for you, 2/3 is for your doctor.
People should likely be eating less often, not more. 3 meals a day is an invention of bored aristocrats. More than that an invention of supplement industry.
Your energy and clarity should be highest when you are in a fasted state. Feeding should be used to stimulate relaxation and repair.

I disagree with this. This is called running on cortisol during the day and loading up on calories in the evening??? Many people do this, and are not ANY healthier than those that eat throughout the day. I don't necessarily agree with sipping milk all day, but I eat when I'm hungry and I have never been overweight. The people I know who are never hungry in the morning don't eat one thing til lunch and then not very much then gorge at dinner slowly gain more and more weight as the years go by. High cortisol.

 

[Brian]

Majority of health issues are likely caused by over nutrition. Digestion and assimilation are incredibly energy intensive, and inhibit the bodies natural
cellular "recycling" processes. The notion we need to constantly feed to maintain our energy/blood sugar/whatever, is hogwash. There is a reason we have such large livers, it's aN incredible fuel tank for maintaining proper energy ratios in the bloodstream. For metabolically healthy people, the liver and body fat can provide plenty of clean energy. We are (should be) perfectly capable of going many hours, even days, without food. If you need to constantly eat to maintain your energy levels, you are broken. If fat was harmful to our metabolism, it certainly wouldn't make sense to have it be our primary storage form of energy.

Humans (industrialized) eat more and move less than ever. If you are sedentary, you will not be at optimal health, regardless of your diet. As the old saying goes 1/3 of what you eat is for you, 2/3 is for your doctor.
People should likely be eating less often, not more. 3 meals a day is an invention of bored aristocrats. More than that an invention of supplement industry.
Your energy and clarity should be highest when you are in a fasted state. Feeding should be used to stimulate relaxation and repair.

I kind of disagree with this view. I agree you can get chubby by eating more at one time than you can metabolize before the next time you eat, but I think the larger issue is environmental and lifestyle hormonal cues that stimulate stress hormones which decrease the metabolic rate to a large degree.

Here's an experiment I'd like to try: Take two people who are nearly completely sedentary and feed them a high calorie diet for a year. One spends their entire day in an artificially lit room. The other outdoors from dawn until dusk. I would expect after a year for the outdoor person to be slimmer and healthier in every way mostly from lowered serotonin and cortisol, with increased dopamine and progesterone from an excellent circadian rhythm.

Then adding lifestyle tweaks to the outdoor person like being engaged in fun work and play with enjoyable company I would further expect their health markers to increase while still remaining sedentary from higher dopamine and oxytocin release.

Then adding in only a few half hour resistance training sessions per week their metabolic rate would further increase by a large amount due to increased insulin sensitivity and youth hormone production, especially DHT. While the lonely indoor, non-resistance training person would have poor health in comparison.

This is actually kind of the story of my life over the last couple of years. I attribute my increase in metabolic rate and health more to subtle environment and lifestyle tweaks that of themselves don't require much more energy expenditure but rather stimulate a hormonal environment which continuously keeps metabolism higher 24/7.

So I think its misguided to worry about calorie intake and meal frequency too much, high or low. I prefer two large meals per day myself, but I think much more important is all of the subtle environmental, social, psychological, and muscle stimulation that affect hormones that are involved in living a well rounded life.