Vitamin E Requirements May Be Higher Than Ray Recommends

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I am trying to get my hands on this study, which is behind a paywall. Since it is old, it will probably be hard to find it free. So if anybody has access to it please send it over.
    Bottom line, the dietary requirements for vitamin E largely depend on the type of PUFA one consumes and can be as high as 2mg of vitamin E for every gram of PUFA consumed. The more unsaturated the PUFA, the higher the amount of tocopherol required to neutralize it (saturate it). PUFAs not only consume vitamin E to be metabolized properly, they also inhibit vitamin E absorption from the gut. Based on that analysis, the author concludes that many foods may even have negative NET vitamin E contents since we have to factor in the vitamin E present in the food and subtract the vitamin E required to neutralize the PUFA coming from that food. Thus, some foods may cause vitamin E deficiency in the long run of consumed without supplementing vitamin E exogenously.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1763554

    "...The requirement for vitamin E is closely related to the dietary intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA). By the protective mechanism to prevent PUFA from being peroxidized, vitamin E is metabolically consumed. In addition, PUFA impair the intestinal absorption of vitamin E. Therefore PUFA generate an additional vitamin E requirement on the order of 0.6, 0.9, 1.2, 1.5, and 1.8 mg vitamin E (RRR-alpha-tocopherol-equivalents), respectively, for 1 g of dienoic, trienoic, tetraenoic, pentaenoic, and hexaenoic acid. For this reason, the gross vitamin E content of food containing PUFA does not allow an evaluation of this food as a source of vitamin E. A suitable measure is the net vitamin E content, i.e., gross vitamin E minus the amount needed for PUFA protection. Therefore, some food-stuffs generally considered as vitamin-E sources, as concluded from their gross vitamin E content, cause in reality a vitamin E deficiency if not sufficiently compensated by other vitamin E supplying food constituents. Examples of the net vitamin E content of some fats and oils, fish and nuts are shown. Consequences for food composition data and food labeling and the problem of meeting the vitamin-E requirements are discussed."
     
  2. Gl;itch.e

    Gl;itch.e Member

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    Hope you can get the full study. This is really interesting.
     
  3. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks. Some takeaways from the study.

    1) Fish oil is the worst offender (surprise, surprise) and according to the author has a negative vitamin E content combined with highly unsaturated fats. Thus, fish oil and maybe even fish would induce vitamin E deficiency if eaten chronically.
    2) Of all the vegetable oils, only olive oil has a good net vitamin E content. The other vegetable oils like cotton and sunflower are of unknown status but likely close to zero net tocopherol or maybe even negative.
    3) Nuts are pretty much the same as vegetable oils - high absolute vitamin E content but low or even negative vitamin E content due to the high amounts of highly unsaturated fats.
    4) Given the concept of net vitamin E content, vegetarian diets make meeting the vitamin E requirements even harder. So, it's better to stick to animal-source diet mostly.
    5) The author thinks 60mg intake of vitamin E daily is not only reasonable but warranted given the net content concept and the widespread consumption of PUFA.
     
  5. Gl;itch.e

    Gl;itch.e Member

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    I assume this suggested amount is only to cover the PUFA ingested via food, not what is also being oxidized in ones own tissues. Correct?
     
  6. visionofstrength

    visionofstrength Member

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    60 mg is the minimum dosage they project is needed to avoid a Vitamin E deficiency (based on a study of rats developing creatinuria (creatine in the urine)).

    The current RDA is 15 mg.

    It's reported that Peat takes 200 mg of Vitamin E, and he writes:

     
  7. honeybee

    honeybee Member

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    When I look at my vit e sup it shows iu 200 as d alpha tocopherol. How does this translate into mg ?
    I'm using swan sons ultra max strength gamma toco.
     
  8. visionofstrength

    visionofstrength Member

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    I think the conversion rules for natural (not synthetic!) Vitamin E go like this:

    To convert from mg to IU: 1 mg of alpha-tocopherol is equivalent to 1.49 IU.

    To convert from IU to mg: 1 IU of alpha-tocopherol is equivalent to 0.67 mg

    (and 200 IU = 134 mg)
     
  9. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Walnut is the worst offender. Good job paleos.
     
  10. honeybee

    honeybee Member

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    Thanks visionofstrength.
    Anyone experience stomach upset (like sever I think I might vomit) from Vit e? I just had that experience (didn't end up getting sick) and trying to pinpoint if it was food or the vit e. I also took d3, vit k, at the same time with coffee.
    Food came about an hour after the supplements.
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I get it sometimes as well. I think somebody else also wrote that vitamin E was flaring up their Chron's.
     
  12. jyb

    jyb Member

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    I get tinnitus from vit E, so its either due to irritation or some kind of mechanism similar to aspirin, not sure. I wrote about it here: calcification, K2
     
  13. nograde

    nograde Member

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    I seriously f****d up my gut with high oral doses of Vit-E. Watery stool, diarrhea started after several days of Lotioncrafter and changing to Unique-E finally brought me to my knees. I had to take off some days from work to recover and I seriously considered hospitalization because of dehydration and other bad symptoms. Ironically each Vit-E dose relieved my inflammatory symptoms to great degree but the backlash was getting worse every time. One week of cypro finally calmed everything down. Even if its uneconomical I'm going the transdermal route only from now on. Never underestimate the gut irritation from Vit-E's viscosity and/or additives in your supplement.

    Regarding Tinnitus I had a strange experience with taking cypro: At the second day I got severe migraine, nausea and ringing in the ears that lasted for a day. Then suddenly my tongue, which normally has white coating that got very thick after my Vit-E adventure completely cleared up, like I've only seen with use of antibiotics before. Since then I sometimes feel like being on the verge of a flu which is unusual because I have not been sick for more than five years. I can only speculate that taking cypro somehow activated my immune system that caused sudden endotoxemia causing migraine and tinnitus. Taking large doses of Vit-K now somehow intensifies the "flu-like" state. I don't know what to make of it all but at least I'm happy that my tongue stayed clear so far ...
     
  14. honeybee

    honeybee Member

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    Thanks for everyone's responses. Nograde your experience sounds truly awful. :( My experience was pretty awful too it hit me at work and I thought I might have to leave. I also had some strange pains under my breastbone like heartburn.
    Since apparently oral supplementing can be problematic , I'm going to try the dermal route. I popped one of the vit e gels and spread some on tops of feet and shins using olive oil as a carrier. I guess ill do this until I finish this bottle then look into buying just the oil.
     
  15. loess

    loess Member

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    Ugh, no more oral vitamin E for me. I figured I'd try it again using Lotioncrafter after ditching the Swanson gelcaps which made me feel nauseous. But nope, the Lotioncrafter does not sit well in my stomach either. Even just a small bit mixed with coconut oil.
     
  16. sunmountain

    sunmountain Member

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    What areas do you all rub it in for dermal?

    I'm getting bored with using wrists.
     
  17. loess

    loess Member

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    I don't know much difference it makes but sometimes I also do it under my eyes, tops of my feet, sides of my ribcage under armpits. My line of thought being that those areas have thinner skin than others. I accidentally burned myself with my 300W lamp on my thigh the other day, so it's also been going on there too with a little coconut oil.
     
  18. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    I couldn't open the study, sorry if I missed something...

    Ironically the people who determine the RDI are aware of the fact that PUFA raises the requirements for vitamin E.

    The German RDI are calculated this way:

    total requirement = basic requirement + additional requirement to mitigate the damage from PUFA they recommend us to eat​


    Regarding the US RDI, from a 2001 paper, "Critique of the requirement for vitamin E" (attached)

    Or maybe vitamin E does its job already in the gut.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. m_arch

    m_arch Member

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    Did this study look into emu oil?
    I wonder what the net vitamin E content of it would be.
     
  20. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    i wonder about vitamin K vs. vitamin E and if there is any competitive interference between the two. When vitamin E was supplemented, K was almost undetectable in non-liver tissue:


    http://download.springer.com/static...a4df11623a8de40dfe6765bc9377c959bb0885018c1c1
     
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