thyroid log - ratio worries

[aguilaroja]

Im currently writing down everything i will bring for my endocrine doc in order to get t3 combo.

Here is a very recent abstract from Nature Reviews in Endocrinology, which a doctor or researcher should recognize.

Nat Rev Endocrinol. 2014 Mar;10(3):164-74. doi: 10.1038/nrendo.2013.258. Epub 2014 Jan 14.
Paradigm shifts in thyroid hormone replacement therapies for hypothyroidism.
Wiersinga WM.

Abstract
Impaired psychological well-being, depression or anxiety are observed in 5-10% of hypothyroid patients receiving levothyroxine, despite normal TSH levels. Such complaints might hypothetically be related to increased free T4 and decreased free T3 serum concentrations, which result in the abnormally low free T4:free T3 ratios observed in 30% of patients on levothyroxine. Evidence is mounting that levothyroxine monotherapy cannot assure a euthyroid state in all tissues simultaneously, and that normal serum TSH levels in patients receiving levothyroxine reflect pituitary euthyroidism alone. Levothyroxine plus liothyronine combination therapy is gaining in popularity; although the evidence suggests it is generally not superior to levothyroxine monotherapy, in some of the 14 published trials this combination was definitely preferred by patients and associated with improved metabolic profiles. Disappointing results with combination therapy could be related to use of inappropriate levothyroxine and liothyronine doses, resulting in abnormal serum free T4:free T3 ratios. Alternatively, its potential benefit might be confined to patients with specific genetic polymorphisms in thyroid hormone transporters and deiodinases that affect the intracellular levels of T3 available for binding to T3 receptors. Levothyroxine monotherapy remains the standard treatment for hypothyroidism. However, in selected patients, new guidelines suggest that experimental combination therapy might be considered.

 

[aguilaroja]

This fact is enough to convince any reasonable person that a replacement dose should be identical to what thyroid gland secrete.

But that assumes that fact is accepted by the other person. It's disputed that the human thyroid gland releases in a 4:1 ratio.

Anybody know where there is a reference for this? Or in which Peat article he has written about this?

Here is one place to read Dr. Peat:

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml

some excerpts:
"...healthy people who weren't taking any thyroid supplement had higher T3:T4 ratios than the people who took thyroxine, or that our own thyroid gland releases a high ratio of T3 to T4. The fact that the T3 is being used faster than T4, removing it from the blood more quickly than it enters from the thyroid gland itself, hasn't been discussed in the journals, possibly because it would support the view that a natural glandular balance was more appropriate to supplement than pure thyroxine.

The serum's high ratio of T4 to T3 is a pitifully poor argument to justify the use of thyroxine instead of a product that resembles the proportion of these substances secreted by a healthy thyroid gland, or maintained inside cells....In fact, the addition of thyroxine to brain slices suppressed their respiration by 6% during the experiment. Since most T3 is produced from T4 in the liver, not in the brain, I think that experiment had great significance, despite the ignorant interpretation of the author. An excess of thyroxine, in a tissue that doesn't convert it rapidly to T3, has an antithyroid action. (See Goumaz, et al, 1987.) This happens in many women who are given thyroxine; as their dose is increased, their symptoms get worse.

The brain concentrates T3 from the serum, and may have a concentration 6 times higher than the serum (Goumaz, et al., 1987), and it can achieve a higher concentration of T3 than T4. It takes up and concentrates T3, while tending to expel T4...

 

[SQu]

Thanks for the info, excellent. Taking it with me to take this further!

 

[SQu]

Well to my amazement he gave me T3!
Prescribed 10 mcg / day. I'm taking half that in divided doses.
First dose today after breakfast and already having some reactions.
Well I certainly am a textbook case:
1. too much T4 - hypo in 4 days - textbook response for woman with dodgy liver.
2. T3 only - immediate blood sugar and stress response - textbook ' things that can go wrong on T3' response. In the morning after taking dose, cold slow and pulse 72. Later after realizing and reading on it, took tons of fruit sugar o.j. And milk and farmers cheese. Pulse went up 20 points to 92, felt great. An hour later, feeling shaky. pulse 95, having more fruit and sugar.
It's clear it's not yet settling but as it's day one only I'm going to keep doing this with sugar and protein and see how I go.
I did try hard to educate myself to avoid the most obvious thyroid pitfalls!! But it's okay. Not feeling too bad and can have lots of sugar etc!

 

[Mittir]

Well to my amazement he gave me T3!
Prescribed 10 mcg / day. I'm taking half that in divided doses.
First dose today after breakfast and already having some reactions.

Did you have to show him articles to get T3 or he just gave you after
asking. How big was your dose with breakfast?
RP mentioned that for some people 1 mcg dose can give noticeable affect.

Here is a RP quotes on Thyroid Dosing from peatarian site

Thyroid Hormone
[TOPICAL T3] Using it topically doesn't do anything for systemic metabolism, just the skin, at least at the concentrations I'm familiar with.

It's important to remember that it's cumulative, and the effect of any daily dose increases with time, and is affected by many things, so it's important to keep a chart [of temperature and pulse], watching for changes during a period of about two weeks.

An eighth of a tablet of either [Cynoplus/Cynomel] is a good starting dose. The difference is that T3 has a short half-life, and so can be repeated more often, while watching the pulse rate, so it's possible to get a quicker response.

Sensitivities and requirements vary widely. I've known people who temporarily needed 500 mg of Armour even in the summer, but usually the summer requirement is a fourth of the winter requirement. For some people, 15 mg of Armour was enough, and for some 1 mcg of Cytomel was an effective dose.

[WINTER RECOVERY] The end of winter is the worst time, because of the cumulative stress injury. Small amounts of T3, just 2 to 4 mcg at a time, along with good nutrition, including plenty of calcium (e.g., two quarts of milk), helps to recover from winter.

A starting dose of about 1 mcg can produce a noticeable effect, and can be repeated at intervals according to the effect. 5 mcg with a meal is another way to start it. Thyroid tends to lower cholesterol by converting it into pregnenolone and other steroids, and yours is high enough to easily improve your steroid hormone balance.

[Thyroid acting like caffeine] Not like caffeine, but if too much is taken suddenly, a person who has been deficient in thyroid is likely to experience an excess of adrenaline. Since the body normally produces about 4 mcg of T3 in an hour, taking 10 or 20 mcg at once is unphysiological.

[NDT recommendations] I haven't seen anything that compares well with the original Armour.

T3 has a short half-life in the body, and by adding small amounts of it you could feel quickly whether it was having the right effects. I don't know how reliable the Erfa is in composition. Mood is a good indicator, and the temperature of the toes and fingers usually changes quickly with thyroid changes.

The liver has to convert T4 to T3 for it to be effective. It needs glucose and selenium to make the conversion. Adequate protein, at least 80 grams per day, is necessary. Sea food, once a week will provide selenium, two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice would provide many of the other essential nutrients. Taking T4 at bedtime sometimes is helpful. Most people feel best on a ratio of T4:T3 of 4:1 or less. Checking the relaxation rate of the Achilles reflex is a quick way to check the effect of the thyroid on your nerves and muscles; the relaxation should be instantaneous, loose and floppy.

[HOW TO STOP THYROID] If a person's thyroid gland has been inhibited by very high doses of a supplement, it takes only 2 or 3 days for the gland to resume full activity, and because it takes time for the hormone to be excreted, suddenly stopping a supplement shouldn't be noticeable, when the gland isn't being inhibited or malfunctioning.

Are there any combination products, such as Thyrolar or Cynoplus, that you can get in Spain? It's good to start with a small amount, such as 5 mcg of T3 twice a day, while watching for changes in your pulse rate, temperature, and ability to sleep. Half a grain of Armour, or about 30 mcg of T4 and 7.5 mcg of T3, is traditionally a common starting dose; it should be taken with a meal, so that it absorbs slowly. Taking a very small amount at bedtime usually helps with insomnia.

Try a sixth of a 25 mcg cynomel tablet at first, and watch for the effects in the first two hours. According to what you notice, you could continue that once a day, or twice a day, for about 10 days, then you could try some with each meal, for another week. #2 and #3: when you find out how the T3 affects you, you could change to the combination (Armour or Thyrolar or Cynoplus); the amounts I mentioned would be similar to 12 mcg of T3 per day.

It depends on what you notice from taking a small amount with meals. If it makes you feel pleasant, calm, confident, then trying it at bedtime would be right.

25 mcg of T3 has approximately the activity of a grain (65 mg) of thyroid gland; is ERFA the only one available? A synthetic thyroxine could be combined with the Cynomel. Since the European products aren't necessarily the same as those made elsewhere, and a person's requirements are variable, it's essential to start with small amounts, watching for the effects, including pulse rate and temperature. T4 builds up slowly in the tissues, over about 14 days, but the T3 acts immediately. With any product, a single dose of T3 of about 4 mcg is close to the physiological range; sometimes a smaller amount is enough.

As long as it's divided so that you don't get a big dose of T3 all at once it should be o.k. to take a total of 25 mcg T3 and 100 of T4.That would be similar to the traditional 2 grain dose of Armour thyroid. A healthy person should produce the equivalent of about four grains per day, so with 2 grains of supplement, or the equivalent, there isn't a risk of over-dosing.

I use Cynomel and Cynoplus mostly, but they come in only one size, so I cut the tablets into about ten parts.

Thyroid is the only thing that safely lowers cholesterol, but when your stress hormones are very high, you shouldn't take more than about one microgram of Cytomel at a time, and should accompany it with things like milk and orange juice.

Twice a day should be o.k., [CYTOMEL] but every day you should make a note of your pulse rate and temperature, and in a week or ten days you should be able to see a progression.

Sometimes it takes many months to get the metabolic rate stable at a higher level, and it's often necessary to use a thyroid supplement.

It [CYTOMEL] improves the retention of magnesium, and cellular relaxation, and some people want to have a nap in the afternoon when their thyroid is good.

If you use some T3 (such as Cytomel or Cynomel) it's important to keep each dose small, while watching for changes in your pulse and temperature. Usually 4 or 5 mcg at a time is o.k. (the body makes about 4 mcg per hour). I don't think there's likely to be any problem using desiccated thyroid if the product is good, but because of changing manufacturing methods, that's largely a matter of trial and error. Low ferritin is often a result of hypothyroidism. The need for thyroid increases greatly during the winter in high latitudes, for example when I needed half a grain in the summer, I had to increase it to two grains during the winter. When cholesterol is high, that can make it easier to adapt to a thyroid supplement, since the thyroid will stimulate the conversion of cholesterol into progesterone and the adrenal hormones.

I have heard from a few people using it, one thinks it doesn't work , but I haven't heard enough details to form an opinion yet. [THIROYD by Greater Pharma]

Armour thyroid, USP, was the standard thyroid used widely for about 80 years. Since ownership of the product name was bought by Revlon and then a series of other companies, I'm not sure anything of the simple original formula remains; maybe magnesium stearate, I haven't looked lately.

With your TSH so high, you should probably add a thyroid supplement, until you get it down to about 1.0, or less. (The normal range, according to the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, is from 0.3 to 3.0.)

A few years ago I had some communication from a pharmacist at Forest Pharmaceutical, and he said that over ten years ago they began having thyrocalcitonin extracted from the pig thyroid powder to sell separately as a new drug. I think that left stearic acid as the only ingredient the current product might have in common with traditional Armour thyroid, USP. I don't use any product containing fumed or colloidal silica, or titanium, or various novel polymers, or coloring agents

I use Cynoplus (contains T4 and T3) and Cynomel (T3 only) that I usually get from http://www.mymexicandrugstore.mx. There is only one size tablet, and a fourth of a tablet is a typical starting dose.

T3, by lowering stress, sometimes reveals a low basal metabolic rate, that was hidden by high stress hormones. The body produces about 4 mcg of T3 per hour, so taking more than that can interfere with regulatory processes. It's helpful to use the resting pulse rate, and the 24 hour temperature curve, along with other signs, such as mood, appearance of veins on the hands, etc. The peak temperature should be in the afternoon.

I occasionally see that happen [T3 WILL CAUSE LOW TEMP/PULSE]; sometimes people have had their pulse rate decrease 40 or 50 beats per minute. The temperature of your fingers, toes, and nose helps to interpret the balance between stress and thyroid; your fingers should be less cold as your metabolic rate comes up. In extreme hypothyroidism, the hands and feet can be very cold while the oral temperature looks o.k.; then as the metabolic rate increases, the difference between fingers and mouth decreases.

When I used only Cytomel, any little stress would make me suddenly hypothyroid, and my heart would stop several times in a minute; when I started using some thyroid, USP, that contained both T4 and T3 it stopped happening.

Experimenters using isotopes gave large doses of thyroid until the subjects' glands were completely shut off, and when they stopped giving the doses, everyone's gland returned to normal activity in just 2 or 3 days. The gland is extremely quick to adjust its activity, both up and down, except when it's inhibited by stress, or PUFA, or estrogen, etc. [TAKING THYROID WILL HAVE LONG-TERM EFFECTS]

The temperature rise during the day is the most important thing, since nocturnal stress hormones can give a misleading impression in the morning. Resting pulse rate is another good indicator. Milk and cheese are the best calcium sources.

If you are eating enough protein, about 100 grams, and salt and thyroid, then I would consider the steroids--something might be interfering with your production of pregnenolone and DHEA. Things that could do that would be very low cholesterol, or a deficiency of vitamin A (retinol), or possibly other deficiencies.

If your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene. Have you tried a supplement of pregnenolone or DHEA? Were any other hormones, such as prolactin, measured? If you are taking the aspirin regularly, you should make sure to get vitamin K, from kale, liver, or a supplement. Anemia, like cold feet, is a common sign of low thyroid function.

Several of the commercially available products aren't well formulated, some are completely inactive. Cytomel's formulation has changed recently, so I'm not sure of its present potency. In areas with fluoridated water, taking a tablet with water can inactivate it. With good Cytomel, once a person has taken a very big dose, the liver produces enzymes to inactivate it quickly, so after 12 hours the blood level will become too low, and another big dose will be needed. Stress hormones are responsible for raising reverse T3, and just supplementing T3 is seldom enough to normalize the stress hormones, so continued use of large doses can maintain improved functioning, but at the risk of developing problems from the continued excess of those hormones.

[HIGH STRESS HORMONES ON THYROID INCREASES SENSITIVITY TO THEM?] Not necessarily, but it's something to watch for. The daily temperature cycle is helpful, if stress is low, there will be a strong cycle, lowest at night, early morning.

[THYROID NOT ENOUGH TO LOWER STRESS HORMONES] Yes, the diet is an essential part of normalizing them. The climate is important, too.

[TEMPERATURE CYCLE - DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOWEST AND HIGHEST TEMPERATURE] It depends on when you wake up, but anything from 0.6 to 1 degree Fahrenheit can be normal.

[HIGH HEART RATE AFTER T3] I think regular use of the pregnenolone might help. Are you getting enough milk, and salting your food to taste? Do you have some sea food regularly? (For trace minerals.)
Have you tried taking the small amounts of T3 at different intervals, sooner until the symptoms are gone, then longer intervals until they return? TSH is likely to be high early in the morning, and as it subsides during the day the amount of T3 needed might decrease.

[IMPROVING T4->T3 CONVERSION] If you were deficient in selenium, the correcting effect would be quick, but if there was a problem with intestinal flora, that would have to be taken care of before conversion was good. Other nutritional deficiencies could be involved. Daily raw carrot, weekly seafood and liver, enough sunlight and vitamin D, a good ratio of calcium to phosphate, are often helpful.
Calcium (two liters of milk), vitamin D and plenty of orange juice sometimes help to regulate things by balancing the minerals. A daily carrot salad should keep the small intestine fairly sterile.

source : peatarian.com/peatexchanges

 

[SQu]

Mittir thank you so much. I was armed with articles but he was in hurry and by then I think I'd worn him down!
The dose I took was 2.5 mcg after breakfast this morning but will skip the planned dose tonight and then try break it down in half again tomorrow to get about 1mcg. it's already a tiny little crumb! Feeling calm and fine this evening but a few aches which thankfully are rare these days.
That immediate response suggests I'm someone who needs only a little. Thanks for the reading material e

 

[SQu]

See below

 

[SQu]

Took 1/16 of a pill (1.25 mcg or as close as I can estimate) at bedtime and felt warm and relaxed. Sleep normal ( which is to say quite poor in second half of night) or perhaps a tad better than average.
This morning took 1.25 again and felt temporarily warmed( in the centre of my face and my hands) then at lunchtime due to stressed day and low temp , I took another. Blood sugar got low but fixed it with oj ,an emergency chocolate bar, fruit, gelatin, cheese. Getting sleepy now ( midafternoon) Will probably repeat at bedtime. Pulse 85 which is normal for me.
Going well. Intrigued by sleepiness though as not the first time ( had it on ' t3 recipe' too, also on progesterone ) perhaps rp' s comment about increased magnesium retention applies?

 

[SQu]

last night I took another 1.25 of T3 for a total of 3.75 for the day. it made no difference and my blood sugar was terrible in the evening, it was a reminder of the bad old days with exhaustion, irritability, tearfulness, overwhelmed - my poor family! I went heavy on gelatin, sugar, milk, but nothing. I knew I should take temp and pulse at bedtime but too frazzled. Slept reasonably though, about a 6 out of 10 on my rating. (Took a cypro after weeks of not - trying not to take all the time as rp says)
This morning I took 1.25mcg and have felt good all morning, warm in face and hands. temp at wakeup was 36.5 and now it's 37 at noon and pulse has been 85. more and more, I am able to predict temp and pulse from how I feel.
I do still get the feeling that other things like coffee will activate the t3 from an inert state though - as I felt best after my litre of coffee over the morning with gelatin sugar and coconut oil.

 

[Mittir]

What do you mean by terrible blood sugar, low blood sugar or high?
I think it is quite common that health problems get worse in the evening and night.
What did you eat for lunch and what was your afternoon snacks?
Are you doing light therapy? I think some salt, sugar and protein mix
in the afternoon keep things running. Salt helps a lot with blood sugar
and adrenaline.

 

[SQu]

Well I did not test blood sugar so I speak loosely and misleadingly. I apologize!
I mean the kind of energy slump that was common when my blood sugar seemed very unstable every day. It has got far more stable, but the past few days on T3 has returned to the instability with marked low energy and poor mood in the evening. I'm aware it may mean I need more nutrition and I am taking care to have plenty, but on that particular day I may have underdone it.
Yesterday was day 3 on T3 and I had more protein (approx. 120g farmers cheese at luchtime) and the evening was distinctly, slightly, better, though I did sleep badly until I took two aspirin in the middle of the night and then slept well.
I'm hoping for further improvements today. I am definitely someone who feels worse late in the afternoon and evening, as you say. But I'm also someone who has to keep an eye on having enough lunch.(Related? Probably!)
I'm okay on regular snacks, my breakfast is fine (2 eggs and as much OJ and coffee as I need to keep energy up) and supper is fine I think - all follow the guidelines.
Lunch on the day you're asking about (which was day 2 on T3) was cheese, a gelatin drink (approx. 40g gelatin, several tbs sugar) and through the afternoon, about 600ml OJ, a chocolate bar. But now I think this was too little considering it was a busy day.
Whenever tested my blood sugar is actually somewhat high, as in 6 or over between meals. Yet the feeling is of having run out of gas, running on empty. Evenings have been much better for me for a long time now, but the T3 is clearly taking time to settle.
I could and should have more salt but while I like it, I don't crave it and while I salt to taste, and farmer's cheese soaks up a lot, if I overdo it I find it unpalatable. Today i'll do the farmers cheese again to get more salt in.
I feel that I need to give the T3 only some time to settle while upping nutrients, that there are some gaps there notably lunch, and that in a week or so's time i'll look at adding a little T4 in the evenings.
An unexpected improvement I noticed yesterday was that I was striding out as I walked, not shuffling like an old lady as I have been doing for ages, fearful of falling. felt good.
thanks for the salt reminder, that is the one I know i'm a bit low on.

 

[Mittir]

Lunch on the day you're asking about (which was day 2 on T3) was cheese, a gelatin drink (approx. 40g gelatin, several tbs sugar) and through the afternoon, about 600ml OJ, a chocolate bar. But now I think this was too little considering it was a busy day.

Cheese and 40 grams of pure gelatin can add a large amount of protein.
Do you usually have this much protein with this amount of sugar regularly
or protein content was extra high that day?
This can cause a crash soon if there was not enough sugar. Probably
several tbs of sugar was not enough. I need a lot of sugar to balance
protein, especially gelatin and cheese, not that much with meat.
RP has mentioned that chocolate can lower blood sugar.
I think pectin on OJ can be a source of stress.
You can experiment with other juices, may be grape juice.
But grape can have sulphur issue, but not everyone is sensitive to sulphur.

 

[SQu]

Thank you mittir. Especially for the sugar point. I have raised protein through more gelatin and cheese. I was concerned to keep nutrition high to keep up with the introduction of T3 as so often, people's symptoms suggest too little protein and I wanted not to make that mistake. My symptoms clearly suggest more sugar needed now that you point it out. I'm having as much as I feel like but I'll just have to squeeze more in somehow! I do feel a bit of histamine with the oj but been ignoring it as it's the best juice option around here. I can get grape but do react to sulphur with sneezing. Once again I am finding out that intuitive eating only takes you so far - I need more sugar than I want.

 

[north]

I have the same issue, especially since i cant get to much liquid (OJ Milk).
The trix im using are a LOT of white suger in coffee with meals (I eat meat/seafood for lunch so i need coffee to block iron, 50-100g sugar) in one fairly big cup, and also i buy OJ concentrate and mix them with less water, which gives me all the OJ nutrients in less volume. I know people here talk about NFC OJ but thats too expensive where im located, and the conc seems so be just fine as long as its mixed with quality water. Very convinient. I can basically get 1L OJ worth in just one glas. Thats a solid breakfast together with an egg + gelatin latte. :)

 

[Mittir]

I also have problem with sulfur in grape juice.
I am constantly searching for a suitable fruit juice source.
Recently i have been drinking fresh cane juice and it is unbelievably good.
I cant find reliable source of information on its nutrient content.
Pineapple juice can be pretty good, but it's protein digesting enzyme
can cause stomach problems. RP recommends pineapple in moderation
due to its serotonin content. Very ripe papaya juice is quite good and
very little pectin there. RP recommends against unripe or under ripe papaya.

i buy OJ concentrate and mix them with less water, which gives me all the OJ nutrients in less volume. I know people here talk about NFC OJ but thats too expensive where im located,

RP stopped using frozen concentrate OJ since 2006. Here is a quote

Until 2006 I was using mostly frozen pulp-free concentrate, then they introduced the enzyme process (for disposing of waste fiber, making it stay suspended in the juice), affecting even the 'pulp-free' type. So now I use only sweet oranges that I squeeze myself. US people don't realize how ridiculously degraded their standard of living has become. Nutrition is political economical. The governments tell people to eat beans and bread for a reason. I use coca cola as a fill-in when I can't get oranges.

If you are getting enzyme free OJ concentrate then there is no reason to worry about.
I have read that pectinase is used in juice concentrate processing to remove pectin.
In that sense, concentrate is better than regular juice for someone who has bad
composition of bacteria. It is also possible that some people do not react badly
to enzyme treated pulp in juices.

 

[north]

Well, in my case i dont have a lot of options, caus the "good" OJ is way to expensive here plus i dont know if its even better or not.
I guess ripe oranges would be best.
Actually, just looked up juice makers, not too expensive, that might actually be a worth option checking out. Gets rid of having to peel them! Haha

Making your own juice, is it needed to get the pulp/flesh out?
Lets say making juice from very ripe oranges.

 

[SQu]

I'm having less gelatin. Unconsciously I was having it with lots of sugar to kind of ' hold' the sugar to prevent energy drops which I've had since teens . Perhaps not too rationally thought through.
Today is day 5 on t3 and today I'm feeling nothing - pulse late 70s ( normally 85) and temp 36.4 unchanged since waking up .
I just thought what the heck and took haidut's t3 recipe except less niacinamide as makes me dopy - 300 mg aspirin, 200 mg niacinamide, 300 mg B1, 225 mg caffeine. Strange that I feel sleepy on this!

 

[SQu]

Re 'ridiculously degraded standard of living ' I've been reading 'sugar salt fat' not for it's stupid anti sugar salt and sat fat ignoramus stuff but for history of US food industry since about the 50s. It's not worth your time to read but it was amazing to me that since then, most food gets created in labs. Astounding that anyone bought it - in any sense. Leaving people with a poisoned legacy and almost impossible to find the simplest real foods anymore. Like real orange juice or milk.

 

[SQu]

Summary of T3 after 5 days. Brief effects, energy dips, very slight hypo symptoms ( slight constipating effect - constipation is something I'm prone to and its a kind of' meter' like temps. Also slight depression - faint. Occasional sleepiness and also muscle twitch in spite of lots magnesium.

Maybe slight brain fog too as dose confusing me too easily. 1 tab = 20 mcg. 1/2 = 10. 1/4 = 5. After this I get foggy. 1/8 is 2.5 and I'm aiming to split one of those into 1/16 morning and night. But too small even for toe nail clippers so I nibble. By tonight I'll have taken 10 doses so I should have got through a bit more than half 1 tab in total. But I'll actually have less than 1/4 of the tab left. So I've taken bit more than 3/4 a tab so far. So I've been nibbling a bit more than 1.25 mcg each time. But only slight hypo not hyper symptoms , along with some energy crash jitters. Which are improving.

Unless I feel a lot worse I'll stick with this for a full week before rethinking. But I am at rather a loss.
Because 23mcg T4: 2.5 mcg T3 for 4 days - hypo
Then 2.5 or bit more T3 for 5 days. - Hypo
Ndt in past -hypo.
Next I can try combo again but raise ratio.

 

[SQu]

if you're looking at juicers - I have the 'chew it up and grind up the lot' kind that separates pith from juice and it's great but not for oranges! Because they need peeling and the cheaper kind of oranges bought in bulk to juice are harder to peel. gets messy. Also the juice can come out milky from the unremoved white pith. The kind that would be great I've only ever seen doing huge quantities in shops so don't know if they're suited to home use. They're the ones where all you have to do is cut the unpeeled orange in half.